vagansmom

...and I'm not Irish (Italian descent). I married into the business, fell in love with it (and the teacher of course) and the rest is history. I did lots of folk dance and clogging before I discovered Irish. I run an annual feis for our dance school. I register every competitor so I get to see all their names. We had almost 500 competitors this year. MANY weren't Irish. There were Korean, Chinese, Japanese, Puerto Rican, Saudi Arabian, and African American competitors among the many backgrounds. People who worked at our stages and various booths included someone from the Phillipines, Japan, and India. Many, MANY of our students aren't of Irish descent. What everyone has in common is a love of Irish dance.

Has anyone seen his company perform? Comments? Does anyone know their performance schedule?

I had taped Yagudin's Olympic long program (where I thought he didn't skate it very well - I'd seen it earlier in the year skated with more passion). I also taped the same program from this week's Worlds. Same program, very different energy. This time was a thrill from start to finish. I love that long program - the choreography is superb and really shows off his strengths.

I love it that Yagudin is willing to put himself out there against Pluschenko yet again (I'm assuming Pluschenko's going?) mostly because I so love to see him compete. But I wouldn't hold it against the others for deciding not to compete at the World's. Hey, they spend their lives focused on the goal of winning the Olympics; there's nothing wrong with retiring from competition while you're on top. They may simply be delighted that they no longer have anything to prove after winning the Olympics. Maybe they can lead a regular life for a time. We all know what it's like to focus on something to the exclusion of everything else in your life (even if it's just post-holiday blues) and then to experience that exhaustion afterwards. I can imagine it much more intense following the Olympics. There's no harm in sitting back and just basking.

That's interesting, Alexandra. I've heard a similar story about Varna and also some about Prix de Lausanne and more recently, YAGP although the latter was in a slightly different context. I guess one simply has to accept that where there's formal competition, there's going to be politics. It's a tiresome mix.

I think they're also trying to drive home their belief that now that the Olympic committee awarded a second gold medal in the ice pairs comp, it's opened the possibilities of a floodgate of protests in other comps. I see their complaints about voting irregularities in the women's skating competitions as merely an exercise in sarcasm. It almost doesn't matter that it's a different situation from the pairs events where a judge admitted she voted under pressure. The Russians just want everyone to know that, by awarding that second gold medal, a new threshold has been crossed that'll create conflict forever. They're mocking what happened in that competition. I don't know the procedures in the other cases they've cited involving their athletes. But they certainly ARE embarrassed by the relative dearth of medals awarded their way so this may be a good deflection. I expected more professionalism from them as a delegation however. All through those years of Soviet bloc voting, the USA never went through the tantrums now exhibited by the Russians. It's one thing to lodge a protest; it's quite another to take potshots at the new IOC president. One imagines the Russian delegation must be taking orders from above. Maya Plisetskaya would probably have lots to say about who's calling the shots within the Russian delegation. She didn't seem to think much was changing in the Russian way of conducting business even while we westerners (whom she called "naive") were praising glastnost.

I was SO disappointed that Cohen used that long program once again. I was unimpressed with it at Nationals and liked it even less last night. It doesn't show off her strengths and it's lightweight in between the jumps. I sure hope she's willing to listen to other people's advice and make some changes.

Well, I am laughing, laughing, laughing. I truly never expected Sarah Hughes to win but it was fair. She had the skate of her life and it was clearly better than that of the others. The 3 ahead of her after the short program all were nervous and tight while Sarah's skating was loose and free. What a difference when you don't feel as though you have anything to lose! I think it was fair that Slutskaya took second and Kwan third. But it could've gone the other way, with Kwan second, and still seemed fair. I'd have had a hard time choosing one over the other based on their skates. And Sasha, well, she LOOKED frightened even in the warmup. She was taking those short, short breaths we take when we're really scared. I was hoping she could use that energy to really attack her program but it wasn't to be. After her fall, though, she skated beautifully. Both Kwan and Slutskaya seemed nervous. I was surprised to see it from Slutskaya who's usually up to a performance. I especially expected her to have a strong skate because she would've known that Michelle's performance was less than perfect. It was unusual to see Slutskaya's jumps shaky - I don't recall ever seeing her so rattled. But hooray for Sarah Hughes! I'd never have picked her, didn't think it was her time, but she did everything right. I just hope she doesn't disappear ala Lipinski; I'd like to see her grow into her skating even more.

Colleen probably expects this but I still respectfully disagree with her, especially with, "Michelle simply hit her peak earlier and became a great skater years before Irina came into her own. I don't think it's fair to criticize someone simply because she became great early and hasn't continued to soar in ability." Yes, Kwan peaked early, but she hasn't maintained that peak technically. She certainly has maintained her artistic sensibilities - they're an immutable part of her skating, and I'm very grateful to her for having those qualities because they're what make me love her skating so much. I wouldn't say she's grown artistically over, say, the last two years but I agree, that's OK. It's just that, because Olympics is about winning and it's about who's best right now, I'd like to see Michelle's skating be at its very best and I'm concerned that it's not. That said, her jumps haven't been secure enough in the last few years as they were earlier on. And that's what's dogging her now. I DO think it's fair to hope that she'll improve rather than regress in that area. I have tapes of her earlier performances - her skating, and here I'm talking about her jumping, WAS technically stronger than at present. She shouldn't win a gold medal based on her past skating but on her performance in the here and now. I'm rooting for her all the way - I think she has it in her to put together a really great skate but she has to believe that of herself. I WANT her to win the gold. But fairly. It's ironic that I'm trumpeting Slutskaya because she's got a style I've never cared for. But I admire her tremendously. And I do think that the American media dismisses her accomplishments because she's not "one of ours". But if she WERE American, you can bet that there'd be reams of stories about her indomitable fighting spirit, incredible work ethic, constant growth as an artist. I just want to see her get the credit she deserves for all this. While I understand what you're saying, Colleen, about an A and a C student, the issue once again comes down to who is the A student right now? By your argument, Michelle ought to win because she used to get A's even though she doesn't now. And Slutskaya should be punished for getting an A because in the past she used to get C's. But that's not how the judging works and I'm just trying to place my remarks within the context of how the judges will see it.

Thanks, Dirac. I think Bill Plaschke expressed my feelings very well.

I mostly concur with Sylvia's ranking of the skaters although I'm not sure, having not seen Cohen's short program (was it the same one as her short for Nationals?), I can't rate where she should be. If it WERE the same as her Nat'l short program, then I'd say she deserved the second place too. Although I've always loved Michelle Kwan's skating, I've seen nothing in the last couple of years to impress me. Frankly, I don't see improvement during that time. Slutskata continues to improve. I have so much admiration for her because of that. Kwan has always had enormous musicality - it's no more evident now than previously. She's skating to her former short program. Nothing new here. And she's not skating it as beautifully as she did when she first presented it. Her jumps are tentative rather than assured and her speed has slowed down. So, where's the improvement? I agree that there's a lot of TALK, both from the commentators and from Kwan herself, about letting her love for her sport shine through but it's not showing up in her skating. So I don't believe it. I think Kwan is scared of the competition, terrified even, and is trying to use words to psyche herself up and maintain an image she feels compelled to maintain. I feel sorry for her. By contrast, Sasha Cohen, not known in the past for her invincibility on the ice, looks better than ever. But Sasha's got nothing to lose. Because she was off the circuit for most of last year, everyone forgot about her and so Sarah Hughes's name was promoted. One has to feel sorry for Hughes now. It must be a blow to have someone skate on past you. I can't wait for the long programs!

I did read that Butyrskaya had an appendectomy in November. If true, that could account for her slowness and heaviness during her skate. She's usually a much stronger short program skater. She looked tired.

I am truly disappointed. I missed Sasha Cohen's short program! My watch was 10 minutes slow. Can anyone tell me if it was the same program as the one she did for the Nationals? That was a lovely short program. I don't think I've ever seen a skater with her level of artistry combined with athletics. Her jumps are so assured and her skating has such a lovely balletic quality. Michelle did a nice job but I didn't find it inspiring. In fact, I actually thought that Slutskaya skated better. She had such wonderful speed, her jumps had their usual solidness, and overall her program seemed harder. I prefer Michelle's style but in my attempt to be truly objective, I think that Irina's was the stronger program. Hughes was OK, not great, but OK. Still a rising talent who hasn't yet hit her stride.

LOL, my daughter sat through the beginning of the Canadian's skate and suddenly exclaimed, "NOW I know who she reminds me of - Paloma Herrera!" I think she nailed it - same expression on her face. I liked the Duchesnay's as well, but only while Dean was their choreographer! Re the issue of ice dance remaining true to its ballroom roots: I have a problem with it now accepting Michael Jackson routines and NOT accepting Bolero-type skating. I suppose the rationale is that they're dancing disco but I quite emphatically believe that wasn't disco I was watching. Unlike many other folks, I LIKED the programs that weren't strictly ballroom. But to allow them and NOT to allow Bloomberg & Siebert's Scheherezade is where I think they get into trouble. I really do think that the free skate should be precisely that: a free skate. It can still be bound by certain rules such as time spent in side-by-side skating, rules about lifts, throws, etc. They've proven their ability to skate to ballroom rhythms in the compulsories and the original dances - now let them just DANCE! So, yes, to me it's still a step backwards. [ February 19, 2002: Message edited by: vagansmom ]

I'm so looking forward to this competition. I don't know why everyone says that it's Kwan's to lose. According to this article, "Russian rival Irina Slutskaya has beaten her in every major head-to-head event this year, mostly on the strength of superior programs. Sounds to me like it's SLUTSKAYA'S to lose, not Michelle's. I hasten to add I much prefer Kwan's skating. She's such a complete skater although I do think that as she's grown older, she's lost a little confidence in her jumping ability. When she first arrived on the senior lady's scene, her jumping seemed fearless. While she's still a slender, slightly built person, her body has matured in the ensuing years and it seems that she's not regained that absolute confidence. But what artistry and musicality! When Kwan is "on", the music flows from every part of her body. The same can be said for Sasha Cohen. I'm hoping that her long program isn't the same as it was for Nationals. I was very disappointed in that one. Her short program being flawless, I had high hopes for an equally artistic long program. I thought that, other than her amazing jumps, it was a lightweight program - very little in between the jumps. One really has to give a lot of credit to Slutskaya. This young woman has completely reinvented herself as a skater. She'll never have the artistry of a Kwan or a Cohen but she's certainly come a long, long way in a few short years. For several years she was the Timothy Goebel of female skating - all jumps and nothing else. She changed everything about herself and her skating: hair, costumes, but most of all her training and her choreography. I know that I spend a lot of time on her shortcomings but we really should admire Slutskaya for her ability to make major changes in her skating. How many other people are able to do so as well? And then there's Sarah Hughes. To me, she's the real underdog, even more so than Cohen. Hughes's coltishness makes her skating uneven but she's grown so much so quickly that it's hard to say from one program to the next how different her skating might be. I have a feeling that the stability, when it arrives, will be sudden and dramatic. While she doesn't appear to have that inborn musicality, she does seem to be a tenaciously quick study. I imagine her as the gangly teenager who suddenly grows up. I'm waiting.

Even in its day, "Bolero" was considered risky in terms of rules. It was one unbroken piece of music. It barely qualified legally and there were so folks at the time who thought it didn't. I think the only reason why it was so well-received by all the judges was because they KNEW that this was so remarkable, so inspired, and so incredibly well-skated that they too fell under its spell. Torvill & Dean truly skated as one. I haven't yet seen a couple who comes close. Their edges were deep and talk about flow! They were a hypnotic presence on the ice. They brought a calmness to their skating that enveloped the observer as well. You really felt as though you were being drawn into their world. The closest comparison I can make in that regard is to Suzanne Farrell. Ice dance changed their rules following "Bolero". I've always felt that it was a step backwards rather than forwards.

Sylvia, That's RIGHT - how could I have forgotten about that fall in Nagano! Victoria - yes, I think that Torvill and Dean set the bar so high that everyone else is still struggling to reach it. I miss them dearly.

I thought the French were holding back too. Still, their FS was clearly the strongest and they deserved to win. The Russians however seemed slow. I thought their skating was uninspired. There was a sameness throughout it that quite frankly bored me. I wouldn't describe the Lithuanians' program as "flowing". Intricate, yes. But the more apt word would be spastic. I didn't think she ever held any arm or hand position for more than a second or two. It gave a jumpy feel to their skating which had me disliking the choreography intensely. It's always funny how we all read people differently. I wouldn't have called Fusar-Poli's expression a "big pout" but rather a look of crushing disappointment. You just know it wasn't aimed at the judges - it was simply shock and frustration at how quickly her hopes of a gold were dashed. I thought she was very sweet, despite her utter sadness, in taking Margaglio's hand while awaiting what they both knew would be the inevitable lowered marks due to his fall. We North Americans - our Brit cultural heritage? - always want people to buck up and show no emotion with defeat. I do agree that their marks were higher than they should've been as the result of his fall. But nothing was more shocking than the Bourne and Kraatz crash at the very end. Everyone in my house was shrieking in surprise. I feel so very sorry for them. Up till that point, they were skating with great speed and flow. I was so SURE they'd medal. I bet they could just taste it too. In all the years of watching figure skating, I don't ever remember people falling in the last second of their skate. But at these Olympics, the Canadian duos are two for two (Sale/Pelletier fell at the very end of their short program).

I think that both the Russian and Canadian skaters have handled the situation well under the circumstances. I know others have felt that Jamie Sale was "whiney" but frankly I just don't see it. I haven't watched all the interviews though but I think I've seen enough. I caught the interview tonight with the Russian skaters where they said they're afraid they'll be booed by the audience during the exhibition skating. I think they're very wrong about it but I can certainly sympathize with their fears. In their minds they've won the gold, they were looking forward to being presented in that exhibition as the Olympic champions and receiving the accolades that belong to them but that's not going to happen. And it hurts. It seems to me that it's easy for us to be armchair experts on how these skaters should behave but all four of them are faced with a great deal of pressure that none of them had a hand in creating. They're physically and emotionally exhausted. Any of us who've undergone any kind of physical/emotional exhaustion know how poorly our brains work during such a time. I'm willing to afford them a bit of latitude under the circumstances. I think they're trying hard to not be critical of each other but nevertheless both pairs feel they won the competition and they're stuck having to accept a situation they didn't create. They're all stuck paying the price for someone else's misdeeds.

While it seems as though the French judge is being treated as a scapegoat here, I'm guessing the logic (if one can call it that) in punishing her and no one else lies with the fact that she's the only one who's confessed to the misdeed. She incriminated herself. Since the other judges are apparently remaining close-mouthed, the reasoning seems to be that you can't punish someone without evidence. Of course, it takes two to tango. But I can't figure out any other reason for the actions taken against the French judge alone. I don't have an opinion about the awarding of the second gold medal. The arguments for and against doing so both have merit. But I DO feel it's good to have the issue addressed promptly.

Back to Alexandra's comments in her earlier post on this thread where she said that she thinks this decision will only make things worse in judging in the future. Although I usually agree with you, Alexandra, in this case I take issue with your comments. I believe that all this hoopla will benefit skating in the end. This has been building for decades. I think no one was willing to deal with the vagaries of ice skating judges back in the days of the Iron Curtain because it was politically too dangerous. There were serious East/West politics involved, far beyond the scope of any sports medals. It was accepted that there was, on both sides of the Iron Curtain, impropriety in the judging. But very clearly, since the breakup of the Eastern bloc, there's been pressure mounting publicly for changes to take place. And that's because it's safe politically to apply such pressure. This latest decision to award the Canadians a joint gold medal along with the Russians is really a decision whose origins began in about 1990 and reached the pressure cooker level at the Nagano Olympics. I don't find it a bad thing that the media is pushing it front and center regardless of their motives. (It certainly makes an exciting story). That the decision was made about this particular pairs event is immaterial. The Russians and Canadians are just pawns in this matter. And that's OK although I do feel sorry for both pairs to be stuck at the center of the controversy. But changes have been overdue for a long time. The judging community has been issued a humiliating wake-up call. I think we can expect fairer judging and less back-room dealings in the future. Having devotedly watched figure skating competitions since way back in the days when Carol Heiss won her Olympic gold in 1960, I have to say I'm cheering loudly right now. This sport deserves a judging overhaul.

Yes, the judging, overall, seemed fair. But also it was easier to decide, unlike the pairs, because of the results of the short programs where so many guys didn't skate very well. In any case, I'm very happy Yagudin won. He is such a complete skater. It wasn't the best he's skated that choreography - his speed, for example, on his spins was slower than his usual. In fact, I think his overall speed throughout wasn't as sharp as usual. But it's such a well-crafted piece of choreography. There are no awkward moments that just use up time. All the linking steps are there. Same, of course, goes for Pluschenko. Had he not missed that quad in the short program, everything might've been very different indeed. His long program had great speed and what a thrilling personality on the ice! I do wish he'd skated cleanly his best through both his short and long programs - it would've been so exciting to see the results. I think Yagudin's long program would've been skated with loads more oomph too had Pluschenko been a serious threat. Finally, what a great night for Timothy Goebel! I'm not a great fan of his skating but he probably had the two best skates of his life here at the Olympics and I was thrilled for him. Based on those skates and with a little help from the other guys who didn't have their best night, he deserved the bronze. He's come a good distance in his long program which was interesting and well skated. Hopefully, he'll dedicate himself to ballet and build that upper body.

In defense of Elvis: There's no way I'd compare his skating with that of Timothy Goebel. Goebel is a jumping machine - little else, reminiscent of Elaine Zayak, an American some years back, and more recently Midori Ito, who could jump incredibly but that was it. I've always thought that Stojko is vastly underrated because he's not balletic. He's a wonderful example of a skater who stays within himself. He's taken his un-ballet body and whipped it into incredible athletic strength. His presentations, in my opinion, are powerful and jam-packed with choreography and speed throughout, as compared to Goebel who is just killing time in between the jumps. I've always thought it unfair for judges to insist on ballet as the personification of artistry in figure skating. I happen to prefer it myself, but I can appreciate a masterful performance that isn't ballet-based. To me, Stojko fulfills that. Without having seen Sale's interviews, I can't comment. But if you must search for a comparison, use Nancy Kerrigan. She's a great example of a bad sport when she lost the gold (rightly or wrongly) to Oksana Baiul. And finally, I'm so looking forward to the men's long program which hopefully will go to Yagudin. While I'm also a fan of Pluschenko, I still think that even when they both skate cleanly, Yagudin's is the more mature performance (not to mention costume). I was sorry to see Pluschenko fall though. I'd been looking forward to seeing them both skate their best. Theirs is the finest male skating rivalry since the Brians.

Re the men's short program: Once again Todd Eldridge broke my heart. I almost didn't watch him because at various times throughout the years I've grown tired of being let down. He's such a gorgeous skater when the pressure isn't too great. I lasted up till his triple axel tonight and had to leave the room at that point. Heartbreak again. But three cheers for Yagudin who, to me, exemplifies a perfect balance between technique and presentation.

I'm so glad that others were pining for Dick Button's commentary. I really missed not having him announce last night. Although he can be as jingoistic on occasion as the other announcers, he also has a profound respect for the presentation and I truly wanted to know how he'd have called it. Now tonight the talk was all of collusion among judges, with the French judge stating she was told if she voted in favor of the Russians, they'd vote in favor of the French in the ice dance competition. Yikes! I hope that something really good comes from all this, perhaps a restructuring of the voting system. Interestingly, my daughter, the ballet dancer, says she believes ice skating shouldn't even be in the Olympics, especially since the presentation marks are the deciding factor. She feels strongly that one can make the case that ballet should be in the Olympics and she's firmly against that. She doesn't see a whole lot of difference between dancing on ice and dancing en pointe when it comes to sport. But she hastens to add that she's selfishly glad ice skating is a sport because otherwise she'd never get to see it!