They don't make dancers like the used to?

[bart]

From an interview of Julio Bocca by Sarah Kaufman, Washington Post:

___________________________

QUOTE:

"Reflecting on his long career, Bocca says he feels grateful to have danced with the likes of Mikhail Baryshnikov, Rudolf Nureyev, Natalia Makarova, Carla Fracci and so many other stars. In contrast, he says, now the dance world is "kind of flat, in a way. You don't see the personality onstage, where someone walks on the stage and -- " he mimes astonishment, dropping his jaw, wide-eyed.

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As someone who remembers the big stars and extraordinary charisma of certain dancers even BEFORE those mentioned by Bocca, I'm inclined to agree. I certainly relate to this later statement: "Sometimes when I say this," he says with a self-deprecating laugh, "I feel like I'm getting old."

I know that we've had threads on similar topics in the past, but somehow it sounds different coming from the mouth of a great and charismatic dancer who's actually been onstage with a great many dancers: What do you think about Bocca's comment? Is this a case of "things were better in the good old days"? Or is there an uncomfortable degree of truth in what he says?

P.S.: Here's the Link to the entire interview, courtesy of dirac:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...6021502709.html

[Leigh Witchel]

It's kind of ironic to hear Bocca saying this, because he's not part of the generation of dancers he's naming, he's part of the generation people were saying this *about*.

I've seen an upturn on personality in the past few years at NYCB at least, but that could change once again.

[richard53dog]

___________________________

QUOTE:

"Reflecting on his long career, Bocca says he feels grateful to have danced with the likes of Mikhail Baryshnikov, Rudolf Nureyev, Natalia Makarova, Carla Fracci and so many other stars. In contrast, he says, now the dance world is "kind of flat, in a way. You don't see the personality onstage, where someone walks on the stage and -- " he mimes astonishment, dropping his jaw, wide-eyed.

____________________________

As someone who remembers the big stars and extraordinary charisma of certain dancers even BEFORE those mentioned by Bocca, I'm inclined to agree.  I certainly relate to this later statement:  "Sometimes when I say this," he says with a self-deprecating laugh, "I feel like I'm getting old."

Is this a case of "things were better in the good old days"?  Or is there an uncomfortable degree of truth in what he says?

dyn/content/article/2006/02/15/AR2006021502709.html]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...6021502709.html[/url]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Old opera fans talk the same way. "we don't have Zinka anymore" . Although I have a big, big gap in my ballet attendance in the later 80s and 90s, I go all the way back to the mid-late 60 and saw the dancers Julio mentions plus many others .

There were lots of dancers with intense, personal charisma. There are today also.

The numbers vary, there have been bigger clusters at different times, but there are many dancers today that put a very personal stamp on their performing. This is something that is very important to me

Two points, one , as I already noted is that some periods do have greater numbers, but it cyclical.

The second, and this is the biggie, is that if you are looking for the new Nureyev

YOU WILL NOT FIND HIM. I think this is one of the mistakes people make. The strong performers, across the different fine arts fields, project their OWN identity, not some watery imitiation .

I find many dancers today compelling, but in different ways than favorites from

almost 40 years ago (I'm getting old!!!!!) And I think Julio ironically would stand

out just fine in earlier eras.

Richard

[carbro]

There are several subjective elements at work here, too.

As Richard implies, we remember the larger-than-life figures while the lesser ones tend to be if not forgotten, then less prominent in our memories.

Another factor is that Bocca arrived at ABT when he was 19. At that age, we often have an exaggerated sense of our heroes. Were he 19 today, he might look at Angel Corella as a great, dominating god-like figure. But instead, he's a peer and not so awe-inspiring. It's hard for someone that close -- and somewhat senior -- to have that youthfully naive and inflated take on a person.

That's why there are so many legends from our youth -- whenever it was -- and so few in our present. If I'm implyng a certain jadedness, I don't mean to push it that far. More like an understanding that everyone pulls on their tights one leg at a time.

[beck_hen]

Well, I am a youngster who started viewing in the '90s. I have always been waiting for lightning to strike, but until the past few years it didn't, and videos of Assylmuratova and Terekhova were more exciting to me. I remember being very impressed by one of Lesley Collier's last performances of Giselle when I was a young girl.

To be fair, I think some extraordinary artists developed in Bocca's generation. But some of the ballerinas only achieved artistic excellence late in their careers. I think Jaffe and McKerrow were the real thing by the end, and Wendy Whelan, whom I had never warmed to, blew me away after she started working with Christopher Wheeldon. Why would it take longer for artistry to develop? I'm not sure, but contemporary choreography isn't often about highlighting the individual. Maybe it's too democratic. Wasn't there a backlash against "relying" on stars?

What we really crave is not to convince ourselves of someone's greatness, but to have it seem self-evident. The first time I saw Ashley Bouder, six months ago at the Summerstage in Central Park, I thought she was great. I hadn't had that immediate wow with anyone else. I have only seen Alexandra Ansanelli once, doing Duo Concertant and La Valse with the Suzanne Farrell Ballet last Thanksgiving. She didn't get very good reviews, but she announced herself to me as a ballerina. I prefer "fake" to bland.

I think An American an Paris is a very good vehicle for Damian Woetzel—his dancing seems very casual, charming and energetic. I could watch that any day of the week. See him as Siefried and he won't seem special; in Union Jack he definitely is. Maybe that's another problem: everyone can't be good in everything.

Over at ABT, I find David Hallberg, Stella Abrera, Marcelo Gomes and Veronika Part compellingly unique (I realize I'm mostly preaching to the choir with those names). And I always find my eye drawn to Yuriko Kajiya.

Zeitgeist is crucial. I think ballet was just more prominent in society from the turn of the century through the 1970s. Media attention helped to create stars in the past. I feel that many dancers today could be marketed as stars, but companies don't take that approach. And the right choreography shows dancers at their best. It's fine to have the choreography be the star, but that works better if the choreographer is a genius...

[drb]

I think the women of this decade are the best group, in terms of quality, charisma, and quantity, since the 70's. It is a great time to be seeing ballet.

Admittedly we don't have the choreographers of that era, but we still have their ballets. But choreographers come along a couple of times per century.

The men aren't of the old level. Who is the new Dowell, Bocca, or Woetzel? Let alone Vasiliev, Bruhn, Nureyev, or Baryshnikov. But Ballet is Woman, so these are glorious times.

[Mashinka]

On the whole I agree with Bocca about the lack of strong personalities, but I don't think we are lacking in outstanding dancers, possibly fewer around than formerly but they are out there none the less.

Oddly enough, I strongly disagree with the last poster, drb, as the change in the physical appearance of female dancers, particularly during the past decade, has led me to regard a number of dancers as utterly repellent. Male dancers remain unaffected by the trend towards emaciation, presumably because they need to keep their physical strength up.

I never like to talk about who is the new Dowell...etc. simply because all these were unique and I wouldn't want them replicated. Today Carlos Acosta, Thomas Lund, Emmanuel Thibault and Nikolai Tsiskaridze are all outstanding and quite unique in style and personality.

[fandeballet]

Pictures from a mid-60's Life magazine of Nureyev in lower outer space,the physical force of his dancing, inspired me to see him and ballet in ernest for the 1st time in 1974. People told me he was not at his peak anymore!?!? But, he was still doing some incredible things technically. But as many of us know Rudi was not just about his physical powers. You were drawn to him, even when he was sitting!!!!!

When Rudi and many of my favorite dancers from his generation retired and even died, I was devastated. I lost alot of my interest and passion for dance.

Even a younger Bocca was not enough to get me where I was in the 1970's & 80's. I did miss some terrific perfs. though, I must admit.

But, in 1995, Jose Manuel Carreno brought me all the way back!!!

I learned to appreciate each individual dancer for what he/she brings onto the stage! So I became a better fan of dance, due to a new generation of dancers that have brought their own magic and grace to us. I still won't stand for sloppy finishes. But, I get just as much pleasure now!!

Another thought.....It does not matter what people like me think about dancers today, because each generation's only reference points have to be what they see on stage TODAY!!!!!!! Other than videos, that is!!!!!!!!!!