sylvia

Plushenko's giving this one a miss because of a knee injury. Russia's only sending 2 men because Klimkin is also injured and Serov couldn't arrange a visa in time - so I'm disappointed. Which is great news for Yagudin - he needs a 'fairly' clean skate to win back his title, his presentation being so far above everyone else's. I'm actually thinking it's Honda rather than Goebel who will be his biggest threat (provided he holds his nerve.) I'm fine with skaters not attending Worlds after the Olympics which are mentally very draining. It may not present the best skaters in the world but it does give attention to the skaters lower down the ranks. Shen & Zhao and Lobecheva & Averbukh will probably win their first World titles in pairs and dance respectively and I'm hoping Abt and Honda end up on the podium - I still think the men's competition is going to be wonderful. [ March 17, 2002, 12:08 AM: Message edited by: sylvia ]

It's a bit of a mystery to me what has happened to Piccone. He did one Swan Lake at RB in July 2001 and then his name disappeared from the dancers list. It turned out that he accepted a position as first soloist, but then asked for a principal contract, hence his departure. I don't know where he is now.

I really do agree with all that's already been said. I wish greater emphasis were placed on edge control and pure technique over power jumps - it would certainly give more credence to skating as a sport. School figures took years to perfect so it makes sense that consistency should be rewarded, that the Olympics shouldn't depend on only 6 and a half minutes. But returning to school figures or showing only the LP on tv would only bring even more intrigue into the sport. There was plenty of controversy of judges using school figures to manipulate placements. They got away with it in part because there was no public broadcasting. And some like Janet Lynn lost out, one of the most beautiful free skaters that could never master school figures. When figures were eliminated from the Olympics after '92 skaters spent all their time on jumps over edging which partly explains the preponderance of younger girls in the elite group. Of course I also blame the judging system which never seems to give enough credit to edges, spinning and footwork and fails to penalise for flawed jumps. I keep bringing up the "if Slutskaya had won the SP she would have won the gold" thread but the argument can be applied here. Would you accept Slutskaya winning by default? It happened when Scott Hamilton won the 84 Olympics without winning the LP or SP because he excelled in school figures. Would this kind of result be acceptable after the last few weeks? Perhaps...if the media and ISU took the time to educate the public about the sublties of judging. But looking at the way the media has handled Olympic figure skating at SLC I don't think it's something we're going to see. [ February 28, 2002, 08:24 AM: Message edited by: sylvia ]

Colleen, I'd actually love to see Irina and Michelle at Worlds. The two of them ARE at present the best skaters in the world and just succumbed to the pressure that dogged so many skaters. Irina'll want her first world title - can't imagine her risking holding back on triple-triples ever again after that FP.

Interesting article from NYTimes - the judges are finally free to explain to the press how they gave the marks, and they've done so for the ladies comp. http://www.nytimes.com/2002/02/23/olympics/23JUDG.html And the French judge Marie Reine Le Gougne finally opens up and says pressure came from the Canadian Federation, not the Russian one. http://www.nytimes.com/2002/02/24/olympics/24JUDG.html Everything's just getting too bizarre. This Olympics isn't one I'm going to be looking back on too fondly. Btw, I enjoyed B&S's Chaplin number too! They included every single one of their best lifts and they looked so charming. S&P were their usual crowd-pleasing selves. The double death spiral is an element B&S have used before with Nagano's gold medalists Kazakova and Dmtriev on tour. And Irina was so adorable in her cowboy number. [ February 24, 2002: Message edited by: sylvia ]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/olympics/2002/figure_skating/news/2002/02/22 /skating_protest_ap/://http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/ol...ing_protest_ap/://http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/ol...ing_protest_ap/://http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/ol...ing_protest_ap/://http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/ol...ing_protest_ap/://http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/ol...ing_protest_ap/://http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/ol...ing_protest_ap/ Russian officials have filed a formal protest of the women's figure skating finale, saying the Russian silver medalist should get her own gold medal because of biased judging. The only thing I can think of behind their reasoning is the grounds they have from the judging in the SP - if Irina had come first and skated the way she did the the LP then she could have won overall. But really it's a moot point - who knows how she would have skated as the leader going into the LP. No one need this, least of all Irina and Sarah. It could come to nothing like the Lithuanian and South Korean protests.] [ February 22, 2002: Message edited by: sylvia ]

Couldn't sleep. Thought this might interest those who found the final result a little confusing. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/olympics/2002/figure_skating/news/2002/02/2 1/hughes_explainer_ap/://http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/ol...s_explainer_ap/://http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/ol...s_explainer_ap/://http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/ol...s_explainer_ap/://http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/ol...s_explainer_ap/://http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/ol...s_explainer_ap/://http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/ol...s_explainer_ap/ And a more detailed explanation. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/olympics/...euve_explainer/ [ February 22, 2002: Message edited by: sylvia ]

Wow, that Ladies long program was a HUGE surprise. I'm pretty crushed that we didn't get Irina-Michelle, 1-2 or vice-versa. It never once occurred to me that Sarah Hughes could be Olympic champion but she really did have the best LP of the night. I've been a big critic of hers - I'm not a fan of her skating. It looks awkward at times and her jumping technique drives me nuts. (preparations are the strangest I've seen). But she really delivered. Gotta admire her for skating her heart out, doing those triple-triples and skating pretty clean. I'm surprised Irina didn't slot in any herself though she did look really nervous. So I'm disappointed she held back because I love her Tosca though I think she overdid the drama a little. (Wish she'd take a note from Yagudin's book - his Tosca in Worlds 2000 was pure genius.) And she's capable of doing those combinations but deserves to be 2nd in the LP. And I guess that the SP did make a huge difference in the final placements after all! Michelle was disappointing, program wise and technically. She was beautiful throughout but this program isn't one of her masterpieces. I can understand the low presentation marks - the fall on her flip really brought her program to a halt. And her jumps were tiny - only a few inches off the ice. I guess nerves just got the better of her. I really hadn't expected her to skate clean with the season she's had. I feel awful for her - to be beaten in the Olympics by yet another teenager. I think she was prepared to take home silver but not bronze. She looked so devastated on the podium. Irina was in tears too when the placements were announced but she looked her bubbly self when she came out for her medal. Sarah's reaction to her win was priceless - worth every disappointment I've felt in Olympic skating this year - really wonderful! Sasha - loved the attitude she had throughout her skate! Carmen's been done to death though - I guess it must be like a rite of passage for all skaters but enough already! The poor music edits didn't help. Maria seemed so tense throughout her skating, like she was gritting her teeth on every jump. Kudos to her for landing them all! She didn't have the grace she usually brings on ice. She also looked a little out of shape (that costume wasn't flattering at all). And I really disliked her screechy music - I can't believe this was the best she could come up with for the OLYMPICS. It's a disappointing end to an amateur career. And Victoria Volchkova self-destructed in spectacular fashion. She's one of the top 6 skaters and the best jumpr in the world when she has the confidence. But it was one bad jump after another. She also needs a decent chroreographer. She's so tall with lovely long limbs but she doesn't skate 'big' and all I could see were elbows, pointy elbows. So much for Russian ballet training. Fumie Sugari was lovely - not so sure about the music edits. I'm a little dissatisfied though I shouldn't be since I've been the only trumping that jumps matter (clean jumps would be nicer though!). It's been a disappointing Olympics. The only competition that really did it for me was the men's. Oh well. I wonder if we'll see all 3 at the worlds in Nagano - I'm still inclined to put Michelle-Irina as co-favourites if they do. More thoughts later - it's 5am in the UK! [ February 22, 2002: Message edited by: sylvia ]

Robin Cousins made an interesting dance analogy after the ladies final, saying again it was a matter of taste and that not everyone had to be balletic. He said Irina would never be 'Royal Ballet', that she was more 'Mark Morris' and that was ok.

I'd argue that we're not even seeing Michelle's artistry at her best. I wanted her to win so badly in Nagano but I've been disappointed in her programs since. Her presentation of programs is always excellent because her basic skating abilities are of such quality. But it's been a exactly 4 years since I've been moved by one of her skates. I feel like she stagnated after Nagano. As for her technical abilities, she hasn't pushed any boundaries. I don't feel she has advanced the sport in the last few years the way Slutskaya has, or Cohen is trying. Silly I know, but I'd love to see them taken risks in the SP with some triple-triples the way then men did with quad-triples in the SP. I guess it's just a matter of preference again. Am I one of the few that really enjoys Slutskaya's style? She may not have the balletic style of Cohen but I still see grace and flow in her skating and she's exciting and sparkles in a way that the others don't. [ February 21, 2002: Message edited by: sylvia ]

What seems to happen is that if there are a lot of clean skates, the judges box themselves in and run out of marks so maybe it explains some of them are so skewy. [ February 21, 2002: Message edited by: sylvia ]

I was disappointed with the judging. If they really were dissecting each element, it would be Slutskaya, Cohen and Kwan in 1st, 2nd, 3rd. Slutskaya had the jumps, the footwork, the speed in her spins. Cohen's presentation and spiral sequence was the best of the night and apart from her slight flutz was very clean. Michelle had too many faulty take-offs and landings. I couldn't believe she got a 5.9 in her technical mark, but there you go. The marks take a little longer to come up because of the instant replay the judges have available to look at the elements again, but it sure doesn't seem like they're using it. I hate to bash skaters but if the judges don't make appropriate deductions then the skaters will never clean their jumps up. And it's another black mark for the 'sport' when favouritism takes hold. I'm relieved that the right skaters made the top 3 as they all have an equal shot at gold but I'm afraid the irregular judging will carry over into the long program. Eurosport did show Fumie Sugari and she was exquisite. Her program had a similar feel to that of Sasha and Sarah (and a similar costume to Sasha as well!) It hurt her coming so early on I think because she rivals Sasha and co. in presentation and was very clean. Definitely one to watch. I heard the same rumours about Butyrskaya but I think it emerged that there was no appendectomy. She wasn't really at her best but at least she has nothing to lose now and can hopefully deliver a really good LP. [ February 20, 2002: Message edited by: sylvia ]

And here's the draw for the free skate. 19 BUTYRSKAYA Maria RUS 5 2.5 20 HUGHES Sarah USA 4 2.0 21 SEBESTYEN Julia HUN 6 3.0 22 COHEN Sasha USA 3 1.5 23 KWAN Michelle USA 1 0.5 24 SLUTSKAYA Irina RUS 2 1.0 Honestly, why did they put a day between the SP and FP? I really can't wait! And a BBC link on a little technical analysis of the short http://news.bbc.co.uk/winterolympics2002/h...000/1830770.stm [ February 20, 2002: Message edited by: sylvia ]

I thought it was a fantastic competition, lots of very clean skates. Sasha was incredible, really lovely to watch. I love that spiral sequence. Her marks surprised me a little for someone skating so early but I think she's her final placement was right. Michelle, I enjoyed this program more in Nagano, but it was great here too. I would have put Slutskaya first though. She's not too far behind in presentation to Kwan - her spirals have improved a lot! - and the difficulty of her jumps and footwork were superior (and this is the short program after all). If she does all those difficult jump combinations she's been practicing and skates clean I think she could win. I was a bit disappointed that Butyrskaya came behind Sarah Hughes. Butyrskaya has such incredible artistry but she seemed slow and her landings very stiff. Sarah's skating makes me a little uncomfortable - that 'coltish' quality that has been mentioned. She's been around for a couple years now and while her presentation is better, the quality of her jumps hasn't changed at all (flutzing, under-rotation). VERY disappointed that Viktoria Volchkova underperformed. She has the most beautiful jumps out there and usually does well in SPs but she looked completely out of sorts on the ice.

Christopher Dean did some fantastic choreography for the Duchesnays. I just loved their West Side Story in 1992 in which he actually utilised their brother-sister releationship. I think they were a little unlucky to peak at the same time as husband-and-wife Klimova and Ponomarenko who were very passionate skaters. I also thought Torvill and Dean really oudid themselves in making Carmina Burana for A&P to win the 2000 Worlds. Technically and choreographically it was a masterpiece and I wish to God they'd used for the Olympics. Why more ice-dancers don't employ them is beyond me.

The deductions confuse me a little. I thought a fall on an element meant an automatic 0.2 deduction. The Canadians would lose an extra 0.1 because they finished their program lying on the ice which isn't allowed (anymore). Plus it's one person falling vs. 2 people which may explain why the Italians did better than the Canadians. I agree about the judges looking for an 'out' though. But Robin Cousins said that the falls meant a 0.4 deduction! So were they both held up (over the Lithuanians)? Actually forget that. Cousins had so little to say about the dancing I suspect he knows nothing at all. As for the presentation marks I couldn't believe how highly the Italians scored. 5.9 from Russia? - there should have been deductions for disrupting the flow to the program. Such a mess! I can't wait for these new changes to the judging to be put in place. [ February 19, 2002: Message edited by: sylvia ]

That's a good point. And when it comes to the Olympics (leaving all other skating competions aside) isn't it in the direction of sport that ice-dance should be headed it if wants to silence it's critics? Still watching the replays on the BBC makes me long for more 'dancey' programs like the Americans, Italians (well part of it) and Canadians rather than the big 'epic-style' programs. It makes me wonder where these all come from - the skaters who, on reaching the apex of their careers, are bored with traditional styles and start to experiment, or the judges who reward them. I desperately hope the US couple don't go down this route the closer they get to the top. The Canadians seem to have avoided it more or less. A final bit of news - the Lithuanians have lodged a protest at the judging. Not sure if it's just for the FD which I don't think would have any effect on their overall standings, or the judging for all their dances. They deserved 3rd for the FD, but I don't think I can stomach another judging controversy.

I missed out on Torvill & Dean unfortunately. All I've ever seen are snippets of Bolero and of course Lillehammer. I guess it's just the way ice-dance has progressed, the way they're trying to come up with more acrobatic lifts and more original spins and fit in more changes of hold and the judges are rewarding them for it. And there's the changes in the rules as well. I remember reading that Bolero would break all sorts of rules if it was performed now. Pairs and singles skating have progressed as well, but when you look at the top 5 you can see it's not at the expense of great artistry, and as Ms Leigh said, flow and connectivity (well, almost...you could make a case out of mens programs front-loaded with jumps.) But it doesn't seem to be the case with ice-dance. The greatest ice-dancers I ever saw were 1992's gold medallists Klimova and Ponomarenko. I read on a skating board one optimistic opinion that music and choreography move in cycles. That if one really great team comes along, it could start the trend back to quality ice-DANCING. I don't know about this - I wonder if we can ever go back.

I can think of one big one - when B&S collapsed after a lift at the end of their free program in Nagano. They gave away the gold right there. I agree about Fusar-Poli - she looked so sad and teary on the podium. As reigning world champions they must have thought they had a shot at gold so to settle for bronze is quite a blow.

Again, after the FD no change in the top 8 and very little anywhere else apart from a few flip flops. 1st I thought the French were really uninspired. The technical content is there, the lifts are amazing, especially where Anissina does the lifting. But their unison wasn't spot on, especially with the twizzles, which probably explains the 5.7s in technical merit when they usually expect 5.8-5.9s. And I still dislike this program. 2nd The Russians did a fine job. They came very close. The judges were split 5-4 and the Russian judge actually voted the Russians first. So much for conspiracy theories about vote-trading! 3rd Margaglio fall in the footwork sequence was quite terrible! The first 1/3rd I thought was terrific, really fast and full of energy, but it went downhill from there. 4th The Canadians probably were in with a chance for bronze after the Italians fell and they looked fantastic. The deductions were justified - it was a fall on a required element, a lift and they ended the program lying on the ground which means another deduction. But I preferred them to the Italians. 5th I am so disappointed that the Lithuanians didn't move up. It was kind of funny as the commentators for Eurosport Simon and Chris were saying that if the next few slip up, they would have had a chance for bronze or maybe even silver. Well the slips happened and there was no movement. D&V may not have been quite as technically strong as the others but their unison was excellent, their spins original without being over the top and their artistic expression is second to none. They work hard on the choreography to ensure every movement fits every part of the music. It's intricate and flowing, very passionate and devoid of the gimmicks that all the elite dancers use. I really think they should be a model for all of ice-dancing. Now they're turning professional with only a world bronze. They just don't get any recognition from the judges. I would have put them 3rd. I also loved Lang and Tchernychev who held onto 11th. The skated like champions with so much confidence and beautiful and original lifts. I would have had them a lot higher. With the number of dancers leaving amateur competition this year they're sure to break into the top 10. It was mostly disappointing skating with very disappointing music choices. Very few highlights. The overall standard of skating wasn't as high as it was in Nagano or Lillehammer. Oh well, looking forward to the ladies. [ February 19, 2002: Message edited by: sylvia ]

Really interesting bio on the French winners. I'd forgotten that Anissina and Averbukh used to skate together. More thoughts on the comp later. http://news.bbc.co.uk/winterolympics2002/h...000/1828494.stm

Old judging system's going to be scrapped in favour of new one. Looks quite promising. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/olympics/...kating_reforms/

I forgot to mention that after the ODs was the medal ceremony for the Pairs. B&S walked in wearing theirs, S&P received their medals on the podium. The Chinese declined to attend. The Russian anthem was played first (Elena singing very happily), then the Canadian one. It was all very friendly - they were chatting beforehand, with Elena and Jamie, and Anton and David stepping onto the podium hand in hand. The Canadians gave gifts to the Russians. All very nice - a big soothing plaster to heal the cracks in figure skating. Hah! We'll see after tonight.

You're most welcome! I'm not optimistic. The ODs were judged a little unfairly and I think the FD won't be any different. But these Olympics are a little different from the last few, with several spanners thrown into the works - the small changes to the judging, B&K's surprise Grand Prix Final win, L&A's sudden vault into medal contention and the pairs controversy. What I'd love to see: 1 Lobacheva & Averbukh 2 Drobiazko & Vanagas 3 Bourne & Kraatz [ February 18, 2002: Message edited by: sylvia ]

No winners yet, at least for another few hours or so. I can list who's leading after the compulsory and original dances though. 1 ANISSINA, Marina PEIZERAT, Gwendal 2 LOBACHEVA, Irina AVERBUKH, Ilia 3 FUSAR POLI, Barbara MARGAGLIO, Maurizio 4 BOURNE, Shae-Lynn KRAATZ, Victor 5 DROBIAZKO, Margarita VANAGAS, Povilas 6 CHAIT, Galit SAKHNOVSKI, Sergei 7 DENKOVA, Albena STAVIYSKI, Maxim 8 WINKLER, Kati LOHSE, Rene 9 NAVKA, Tatiana KOSTOMAROV, Roman 10 GRUSHINA, Elena GONCHAROV, Ruslan with 11 LANG, Naomi TCHERNYSHEV, Peter It's been a little depressing. I don't think the judges have learnt a thing. Not one of the top 10 changed places between the compulsaries (quickstep and the blues) and original (Spanish - 2 chosen from flamenco, paso doble, tango, etc, etc). Compulsaries are always so hard to tell but I'm pretty sure the judges got it right. The Russians Lobacheva and Averbukh were surprisingly good - they've really improved in terms of dance quality since last year. They've always hovered just outside the medals so it's fantastic they've jumped to 2nd now. There was no doubt that the French were rightfully first. The Original dance I have some issues with. I preferred the Russians who had a really innovative spin and fabulous and difficult footwork. They actually earned a 6.0 from the Polish judge who was the only one to put them in first. Pretty much unheard of outside the leaders and in the ODs. But Annissina and Peizerat were VERY impressive, with so many changes of holds, use of edges, a lovely head-to-head lift, and probably had a greater feel for Spanish dances than the Russians. I read they spent the whole summer learning to dance flamenco. They, according to Jayne Torvill, kept the difficulty and feel going throughout the whole dance, and didn't just have highlights and lowlights as the Russians did. My other favourites, the Lithuanians Drobiazko and Vanagas were passionate and brill as usual, lovely spins but they were seriously undermarked and ended up in 5th where I thought they should have moved up to 3rd. It was the Italians who got 3rd in spite of Fusar-Poli slipping on her dress (honestly, at that length it was an accident waiting to happen). It could have been a disaster but she recovered very fast though it doesn't look like she was deducted for it. It's a little reminiscent of Grishuk and Platov's slip in the 1998 CD (including the lack of deductions). It wasn't very good overall. The Italian judge of course gave them 5.9 for technical merit. I would have moved them down to 5th. The Canadians were in the right spot in 4th. Very different, a little tongue-in-cheek but overdone to Chicago's "Cell Block Tango" - the applause wasn't as warm as one would have expected. It wasn't very Spanish, but it did end with a very cute kiss Bourne planted on Kraatz's nose (and she got purple lipstick all over it too!). The Israelis were incredibly fast, even on tv you could see. But intricate footwork was compromised for that speed, too much in the way of running steps in the footwork sequence. Great choice of music to Ewan McGregor in Moulin Rouge. US Lang and Tchernychev were quite a treat. They had a smashing start with a wonderful lift that went straight up, then dropped her into his arms. Very dramatic. I think they're very promising, though I hestitate to think that they belong with the best as Naomi has said. A top 10 finish would be excellent. Peter's already 30 though (to Naomi's 22). Don't know how many Winter Olympics he has left in him. Another example of bad judging - the Bulgarian girl had a major error falling really behind in the footwork sequence. You couldn't have missed it. But I don't think there were any deductions as the Bulgarians stayed in 7th place. Throughout the evening the judging was occasionally split, but as a whole they didn't budge from the CD placings. Very disheartening and very boring! Why even bother with CDs or bother with an OD if no one ever moves apart from the occasional flip-flop outside the top 10. My other complaint - the choice of music. Why did practically everyone outside the top 6 pick Carmen when there is so much lovely flamenco/tango music available! The elite skaters had some really good and original choices. As for tonight's Free Dance to come, here are some thoughts. The Russians are a little uncoventional in their free but are otherwise quite brilliant. Barring a miracle I doubt they'll move into first. I hope they at least stay 2nd. The Lithuanians have gorgeous free dances, very musical. They aren't as technically gifted as the French and don't normally have the votes to back them up. I'm disappointed but they aren't going to medal. The French I usually love but their FD this year I absolutely detest. It's probably very difficult and intricate and demanding but I can't get past the awful music. And the bad taste in trying to suck up to the US audiences by using Martin Luthor King's "I have a dream" speech. The Canadian's are going to duke it out with the Italians for bronze. I think they have the best free dance out of everyone to a Michael Jackson medley though it's probably not as complex as some of the others. In any other year I'd say it was impossible, but with the Grand Prix Final win under their belts they still have a glimmer of a chance. The Italians are grousing that the pairs controversy cost them the gold medal (looking at their skating so far, I don't think they ever had it). I don't mind their free dance to "I will survive" - very energetic and dancey, but not as interesting as I've seen in the past. Anyway here's the starting order for the Americans... 11 LANG Naomi / TCHERNYSHEV Peter USA 11 (2nd in the 3rd group) ...and the last group 20 ANISSINA Marina / PEIZERAT Gwendal FRA 1 21 DROBIAZKO Margarita / VANAGAS Povilas LTU 5 22 FUSAR POLI Barbara / MARGAGLIO Maurizio ITA 3 23 BOURNE Shae-Lynn / KRAATZ Victor CAN 4 24 LOBACHEVA Irina / AVERBUKH Ilia RUS 2 Really excellent for the Canadians and the Russians (it's Lobacheva's 29th birthday btw) and really terrible for the French. No chance of any 6.0s for them. [ February 19, 2002: Message edited by: sylvia ]