kfw

Yes, I've thought specifically of that. Unless he was invited and comped tickets, he was no more honored than any other ticket buyer. I hear "honored" used his way a lot nowadays, as when people call up Diane Rehm and say they're "honored" to talk to her. I'd be thrilled to talk to Diane Rehm too, but the call screener would be the one doing the "honor"-ing. I guess he or she would be honoring me for having an interesting question?

I certainly hope so. But one is not honored by enjoying something.

All true. None of it, as far as I can see, pertinent to what we"vet been debating this evening.

I'm sure you don't think she's dumb, but I think your argument depends upon her being so. Why would she know? Because she was concerned with the issue. Who goes around claiming to be the first at something without having tried to figure out if they were?

Well my argument, as I said, doesn't just depend on dancers themselves being steeped in history. Racism taints consideration of merit. Describing the racism she faced, in the context of ABT's hiring and training history -- and almost every other company's, for that matter -- may have helped to make up some of the unfair disadvantage and leveled the playing field. I'm not sure how this responds to my points. Somehow I missed this before. I'm sure there are multiple considerations. I've never said or tried to suggest that the PR is the only consideration. What I have said and I think is pretty obvious is that McKenzie would have a hard way to go not promoting her given her PR push.

Well we're talking about a hypothetical so it's hard to settle the point, but I don't see its relevance anyhow. Other people lie too? Sure. Anyhow, I don’t think all dancers are ignorant of history, and certainly the teachers and others who’ve been with the company for ages are steeped in its history. Copeland was highly aware of being black in a largely white world. It was a big issue to her. Understandably of course. She’d know the history because she wanted to know it. Eight years in the company by 2008, and no one had told her and she’d never asked? Same thing after she’d been in the company 14 years?? What I wrote (thank you, Nanushka, for making to easy to find) is one doesn’t need to have seen someone dance to know a PR offensive that includes accusations of racism and a false claim to singularity is an appeal to something besides merit. "Includes." Yes, there was more to her story. No I don’t believe she’s not smart enough to know the media would run with that part of it. Sure, she has every right to her story and how she sees it. Two things can be true at the same time.

That’s an area where there is genuine room for dispute, and a choreographer may feel he’s doing something new but other people don’t see what’s new, or have seen things the choreographer hasn’t and know it's not new, etc. What Copeland said is clearly wrong, and no one disputes it because there is no disputing it, the facts are known. Could very well be, but I’m not saying everyone who did was lying (her PR team, unless it doesn’t know how to use Google, is another story). She, on the other hand, had every reason to know otherwise. dirac, what exactly do you claim is disputable? That she claimed she encountered racism? That she's been promoting herself? That her self-promotion has been so effective that McKenzie could be influenced by the wave of support it's generated. "Disputable" is all too vague. If it’s disputable, I await specifics,

I have said People make mistaken assertions about other people all the time. When people make them about themselves, we call it lying.

LOL. Now that's the kind of detail we just can't get from the current NY Times critic! Thanks (seriously) for your nice and long review, DeCoster, and for that fascinating detail, which gave me a laugh.

Helene, I believe in trying to give people the benefit of the doubt. But to believe that having been in the company proper since 2000, and quite naturally being very aware of what a rare feat she’d achieved, she would think she was the first to achieve that feat . . . that’s just incredible. So when she told an L.A. journalist in 2008, eight years after she joined, that "They've never had a black woman make it past the corps de ballet,” that seems to me almost certainly a lie. And when Glamour interviewed her in 2012 and said “ One of the first things many people point out about you is that you’re the first African-American soloist for the ABT,” and she didn’t correct them, likewise. As for the other thing I said, dirac, I don't remember anyone disputing that she's conducted a PR campaign - or that she wears pointe shoes, is African-American, and dances for ABT.

Perhaps Anderson or Wilkinson or ABT will say something, but I imagine we can all agree that their presence speaks for itself, and speaks eloquently and heartwarmingly. If they put out an official statement of support and congratulations, so much the better.

ABC reports that Lauren Anderson and Raven Wilkinson both congratulated Copeland onstage afterward. (And Damien Woetzel felt it was an "honor" to be there. I guess he felt it was an honor that they sold him a ticket. I wish people would quit misusing that word). Mearns was still indeed the corps when she debuted in Swan Lake.

Well, the accusations are a matter of record and the PR campaign is a matter of record, so I’m not sure exactly what you dispute. That in light of her PR campaign, there is reason to think it might have worked? I have mixed feelings about Copeland, admiring some things and not others, and I’ve said as much. But when criticizing her even for telling an obvious falsehood (that she was the first black ABT soloist), draws objections, it’s clear that politics is at play. Anyhow, I hope she wows’em tomorrow, and makes absolutely clear she deserves that promotion.

My point was that “lots of other people have done it” is no defense. One doesn’t need to have seen someone dance to know a PR offensive that includes accusations of racism and a false claim to singularity is an appeal to something besides merit, or to know that accusations of racism and racial groundbreaking are highly effective today.Copeland may have earned a promotion solely on merit (i.e. in McKenzie’s opinion may deserve it), but now we’ll never know. I think that’s unfortunate.

Yes, but ideally artistry and skill would be what matter in this art, and they would be what build "commerce" (audience interest). So while Copeland’s rise is good in another respect, in that one she’s done it no favors. Her “speaking out” was bound to engender some kneejerk criticism, sure – and some kneejerk support too.

Also, Copeland's PR people may have suggested this story, but I doubt they had to. My guess is that the Culture desk of every media outlet in New York has long known the timing of Copeland's likely promotion.

The likelihood of Abrera being promoted is much lower, however, Filippino-Americans have not endured the same long, vicious and storied discrimination, and however we feel about Copeland's PR, it's worked, while Abrera is unknown outside of ballet circles, except perhaps among others of Fillipino descent. Copeland is already news, and the fevered speculation as to whether she'll be promoted is news now, not after the fact.

I think this story is on the same order as all the stories that have been written recently about which hot conductor will be hired by which major orchestra, and who people are rooting for. Or to give another example, going further afield, stories about how the Supreme Court is likely to rule on a couple of hot button cases this month. As Catton writes, the ballet world really is abuzz about the probability of Copeland's promotion. Add to that the history-making factor that she's African-American, and the probability of her promotion is a real news story.

How terribly sad. RIP, Albert. I'll never forget, especially, your delightful Puck.

Gorgeous. Thank you!

LOL. A nice long one. Agreed.

People interest me.

Me, I just "follow" Ballet Alert.

Not outrageous. Mighty tacky though.

I think it's a trendy but pretentious term nowadays. One used to think of a curator as a scholar at a museum who would spend months or years putting together an educational exhibition and exhibition catalog. Granted, Copeland knows more than a little about ballet, but how much can she impart before and after a performance, if she evens spends that much time with these people? Not that she's to blame for the term here.