dirac

I don't see art being any different. As salzberg said, works will be made about or inspired by what happened, and some will be good, some will be terrible, most will be mediocre, and maybe one or two will be great, if we are fortunate.

The-violence-in-entertainment debate is not one that I'm going to wade into here. I will say that, of the movies mentioned in the letter to the Post, I quite liked the first "Die Hard" and enjoyed watching Will Smith punch out extraterrestials in "Independence Day." It's true that lots of things explode in these movies, but their cartoonishness seems fairly harmless to me, unlike some "serious" movies I can think of.

Thanks for the alert. I read it and also found it worthwhile. The emphasis is on Nureyev's affair with Pushkin's wife, but hey, it's Talk. Apparently a biography will be appearing shortly, in translation. Baryshnikov also has some interesting things to say about Pushkin as teacher and man. I remember seeing a clip of Pushkin in class; one got the impression of someone with great authority but also great gentleness, which seems to have been true of him. He lived for his work, which led to tensions in his marriage. The article also notes that the Pushkins were in great danger from the authorities when Nureyev defected -- it almost makes it seem like a good thing that Pushkin had his fatal attack before Baryshnikov's flight.

I wasn't necessarily disagreeing with the notion that Bourne's "Swan Lake" is known to some people who are unfamiliar with the original; I just thought Bourne's comments were a tad grandiose -- he said "most" not "some" people, and I do think that's an exaggeration.

There are indeed almost too many ways to approach this topic. I'll just make a few points.

I thought Howard's piece was interesting and thought provoking. "So why do major ballet companies' seasons still deluge us with story ballets?" Well, they put butts in seats, for one thing; audiences do seem to be more willing to shell out large sums of money for a mediocre full length ballet with a familiar story than an excellent mixed bill.

The problem may lie in the deceptively simple directive, "tell the story clearly." Balanchine didn't do a lot of story ballets, but he knew how to tell a story when he wished to do so. That Ashton could tell one goes without saying. I'm not sure that the younger choreographers always can. There was a piece on clothes designer Stella McCartney in a recent issue of The New Yorker, which mentions that she and Alexander McQueen are unusual among their generation of designers in that they had gone out of their way to acquire bread-and-butter Savile Row tailoring skills; "she knows how to build clothes," is how I recall the quote. It takes a lot of years and training to acquire this kind of skill; and if you've been raised on a diet high in pure dance and low in mime and theatrical technique, you're going to have problems. Playwrights, to take another example, aren't born knowing how to construct a well made play, and a choreographer undertaking a story ballet is a kind of playwright, even if the libretto is not original. (Shakespeare used to help himself to other people's plots, remember.)

I don't quite understand what Howard means when she implies that the classic ballets once made sense both as dance as story but no longer do. As Alexandra observes, if they don't, it's because the people retelling the story aren't doing it right, not because there is no ballet equivalent of supertitles. Skilled mime is perfectly clear, even when telling an archaic story. (And opera was understandable in the days before supertitles, although I don't want to get into that here.)

At the risk of exposing myself as someone lacking in powers of comprehension, I also don't quite understand what Matthew Bourne is on about. The formula he says he developed sounds very much like the one other choreographers are trying for in their Cleopatras, Draculas, and Pied Pipers. And ,"Now we're the Swan Lake most people know"?? Really?

Finally, I question the distinction between "dance" and "theatre," or at least the sharpness of the distinction as made here. (I can see, for example, discussing as discrete phenomena Martha Graham dance and Martha Graham theatre). In the movie "The Band Wagon" there's a funny sermon on The Nature of Theatre into which the producer played by Jack Buchanan launches whenever he spots an opportunity, and one passage goes (I quote from memory) "There is no difference between the rhythms of Bill Shakespeare's immortal verse and the rhythms of Bill Robinson's immortal feet. It's all THEATAH!" Yes.

My heartfelt best wishes go out to all of you in Manhattan and Washington. Our country has been very fortunate up to now in for the most part managing to avoid this kind of horror, experienced by some other countries almost daily.

I feel almost embarrassed to be tucked away here in the boonies. Here, there does seem to be a little panic in the air in locations where it doesn't quite seem to be justified, a sort of vicarious fear. A co-worker of mine talked today to a woman neighbor of his, who asked him urgently, "Aren't you keeping your children out of school?" My friend was doubtful that the suburban day school his children attend would be targeted by fanatics in hijacked jet planes, and said so, tactfully.

My own feeling is that in actual wartime it's important for the arts to carry on, if at all possible. I can recall hearing on the radio once a brief excerpt from a rather awful performance of "Tosca" from Berlin. The poor performance might be excused by the fact that the show was going on very late in WW II, as the bombs were falling and the city was coming down around its inhabitants' ears. But the singers were singing, the orchestra was playing, and an audience was there to hear it. Obviously my sympathies were on the other side in that particular conflict, but I thought the performance was a gallant gesture.

A real danger in actual wartime, especially in periods of total war, is that a general feeling often arises that all things artistic must be subordinated to the Cause. This generally results in bad patriotic poetry, bad propaganda films, bad novels, and muscular concertos with titles like Triumph in the Air. People who refuse to follow this pattern sometimes get berated for their indifference and lack of patriotism, but the preservation of culture is a cause in itself, I think.

[ 09-12-2001: Message edited by: dirac ]

I haven't heard a thing, but it sounds interesting. We should hear more after the screening. Also, when these festivals end there's usually a wrapup of what succeeded and what tanked.

A belated thanks for this post. I have never seen Ms. Weese perform, but it's interesting that there seems to be such a wide divergence of opinion. Some seem to regard her as an omnicompetent automation, while others obviously see her very differently!

Thanks for the alert. The link is posted on today's Links thread. Lots of good stuff there.

Your clarifications are well taken, and while I see the main point, are things always that clear-cut, i.e., pop to pull in the hoi polloi and "elite" stuff for the elite? (I suppose Knight's tone bothers me just a little bit, too. After all, many who regard themselves as part of a social or aesthetic elite are considered by others to be quite mistaken.)

In the latest issue of People (with the women stars of "Friends" on the cover, there is a profile of Lynda Raino of Big Dance, accompanied by a picture of her, well, big dancers.

We could go further than titles. There might be a way to work the product itself into the ballet, with

"Coffee" in Balanchine's version enter carrying a pot of Folger's, or perhaps wearing the corporate logo.

A hot media topic this week was the news that Fay Weldon's new novel, "The Bulgari Connection," has an actual corporate sponsor (no prizes for guessing who). We are all familiar with product placement as a form of corporate sponsorship in the movies -- those of you who saw Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan find romance in "You've Got Mail," to take one example, will recall the unsubtle plugs for Zabar's, Starbucks, and of course AOL that enhanced your viewing pleasure. Now that the concept has reached the novel, let us exercise our ingenuity and find ways to apply it to our favorite ballets. "The Bulgari Giselle," anyone?

(For those who want to read more about Weldon and her book, here's a link to David D. Kirkpatrick's report in the New York Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/03/business...searchpv=day04)

The item at bottom was originally posted by Cliff on the Links board. It's a full throated defense of artistic elitism by Christopher Knight, which appeared in the Los Angeles Times. I'm curious to hear what opinions, if any, you may have about what Knight has to say and the concept of "artistic elitism" in general.

A couple of talking points to start off with. Knight says," In democratic culture, elitist status does not derive from ancestral bloodline, inherited wealth, genetic authority or established power." My first response to this was, "I wonder what country he's talking about." It seems pretty clear to me that we do have an elite based on precisely those four elements.

Knight also makes an extended comparison of arts to sports, to make the point that sports fans demand only the best, so why shouldn't museumgoers? It seems to me that it's apples-and-oranges. In sports, you have stats to go by, a more or less objective standard. (Which doesn't mean there are no debates about status, obviously. A bean counter not conversant with baseball could look at the numbers, of, say, Joe DiMaggio, and might well wonder if this fellow wasn't a little overrated. I can also recall a family dinner at a friend's house that was seriously disrupted by an argument between two family members as to whether Phil Rizzuto really belonged in the Hall of Fame. It got ugly.) The arts are a little different. Many people think of ballet as highbrow; a number of highbrows didn't and don't.

Last, I think Knight falls into the common trap of Blaming the Victim. He accuses museums of whoring after popular appeal without really addressing the problem of often straitened financial situations that the pandering -- if it is pandering -- is supposed to alleviate. This last seems especially relevant to the state of ballet today.

Thoughts?

http://www.calendarlive.com/top/1,1419,L-L...-41736,00.html?

Coming late to the party to echo Mashinka's remark about purchasing more than one version. I have three "Swan Lakes," all different from one another. (This is nothing, of course, compared to the issues presented by "Carmen," for example, so I suppose it could be worse!

Your mention of Jane Austen makes me think of a conversation I had with someone at my office when Roger Machell's version of "Persuasion" came out. She hadn't actually read the book, but was eager to see the movie, and it occurred to me that in the time it took to drive to the theatre, wait in line, buy tickets, etc., she could actually read the book (it's not very long) and have a far more satisfactory aesthetic experience.

THANK YOU so much for the update! It's nice to be kept up to speed....

[ 09-06-2001: Message edited by: dirac ]

I don't have time to respond to this query in too much detail just now, but the Calendar section of the Los Angeles Times is an excellent source of reviews and what's-happening-in-dance-information. Below is a link to a WebCrawler source list of California ballet company sites (look on the left hand side of the screen -- there's an alphabetical A-F, G-R, S-Z listing.

http://www.webcrawler.com/entertainment/fi...ies/california/

Obviously, this doesn't tell you much about the companies themselves, but there are others more conversant than I with the Southern California dance scene who can provide you with more information. I will try to get back to this thread later. Hope this helps!

mod-squad: Our interest in your opinions is unrelated to the frequency of your posting or lack thereof. It's always nice to hear from you!

Re: your Republicanism. I hope I speak for all of us when I say that a board like this acts in part as a forum for people to voice their opinions, and every once in awhile opinions of a political stripe will creep in. We need to hear from everyone in order for discussions to be truly rounded and interesting. Otherwise, we may find ourselves sounding like T.H. White's ant colony, all voicing the same opinions over and over "Oh-I-do-like-that-ballet-it-is-so-very-Done."

That's my speech for the day.

[ 09-05-2001: Message edited by: dirac ]

Off topic. salzberg, you left us hanging. (Well, you left me hanging.) Which show was it?

On topic: Although I understand the original intent of the query and think it's perfectly valid, I wouldn't nominate anything, because nothing is ever perfect and that's what gives viewers and artists something to strive for. I think of Sir Galahad: he achieved the Grail, God, and perfection and there was nothing for him to do but die. Well, we can't have that all the time, can we? ;)

Leigh, isn't the male figure in Elégie more like poetic types a little before Byron's time? (I'm thinking Sir Thomas Wyatt "Whoso list to hunt," for example, Petrarch/Laura, essentially any relation where the pattern is boy meets girl, boy yearns for girl, boy gets girl briefly (or not), girl leaves boy, boy is left alone wondering what the hell happened. Unfulfilled yearning was rarely Byron's problem, in or out of print. (I just had a brainstorm -- a ballet of Byron and Lady Caroline Lamb. Take it away, Kenneth MacMillan -- if he were still here.)

I think many dancers who do princes can also do double duty as poets -- I'd agree with those who've named Erik Bruhn -- although it is interesting that Balanchine never cast Peter Martins, a bona fide prince, as any of his tormented yearners. He did Diamonds with Farrell, never Meditation, for example; and when Davidsbundlertanze was being cast, Adam Luders (who did perform Meditation) did the tormented Schumann (an artist even if he wasn't technically a poet), d'Amboise chased the elusive Miss Farrell around the stage, while Martins and Watts did a lot of leaping. I seem to recall a passage from Martins' autobiography where he was initially cast in Elégie, only to have Balanchine pull him. He gave technical reasons, but maybe he saw even at that early stage that it just wasn't Martins' kind of thing.

It's a nice magazine, aimed generally at younger readers, and the pics are great. Last time I checked, the subscription price was very reasonable.

I'd like to hear how people first became hooked on, or just interested in, ballet -- was it a performance? a book? a movie? through lessons?

I saw my first ballerina in a book, "The Book of Dance," by Agnes de Mille. I read the book cover to cover with particular attention to the many good pictures. Not too long afterwards I badgered my mother into taking me to a performance, and the rest is history.

Well, sometimes spontaneous reactions are the truest. And there's nothing to prevent you from posting your second thoughts!

It's true that the Internet is great for bibliographies. I once tracked down a bibliography on a certain subject, finding a terrific list of books in a matter of minutes. It would have taken me a lot longer the old fashioned way.

I also understand what Drew means about Internet remorse. It's absolutely amazing the amount of time you can spend surfing, checking e-mail, posting messages, all the time feeling that you are living life at full throttle. Then you look at the clock and realize the better part of the evening is totally shot.

The Internet has also given a new definition to the term "well-informed." It used to be that if you read your paper and watched the evening news, subscribed to a few magazines, you could consider yourself well-informed. If I wanted to read, say, Lewis Segal in the Los Angeles Times, I had to toddle down to the kiosk to buy the paper. (Which I still do, as a firm believer in print.) Now, I have no excuse for not knowing what Clement Crisp thought of the Royal in "Swan Lake." (The poet James Merrill never read newspapers. It's increasingly easy for me to understand where he was coming from.)

I certainly hope so.