Alexandra

Thanks, piccolo. The other NYMag threads are in the Books, Magazines and Critics forum. I'm going to copy this thread over there and merge it into the other thread on the subject, then close the topic here. Thanks for finding this for us.

Have others -- besides Ari and Rachel, obviously -- been able to access this link? I have been steadfastly unable to using Netscape, but did get through using Internet Explorer. I thought Gottlieb's piece was rather brave (and, of course, I agree with him). I think truth and justice do matter, and I'm glad Miller has been called, publicly, on the shifting sands of her response and explanation for this. I'm very glad that Elizabeth Zimmer at the Voice has offered Tobias space, but it's not the same thing. It will be shared space, and her pieces will be not quite as visible and, more important, there will be no dance criticism in one of the major magazines which purports to cover the New York "scene." So from this week, any Big Apple Newcomer, or teen coming of age on the magazine stand, will not even have a glimmer that dance might interest him, or might be important. I thought Gottlieb's take on this quite fine, especially this quote:

Have others -- besides Ari and Rachel, obviously -- been able to access this link? I have been steadfastly unable to using Netscape, but did get through using Internet Explorer. I thought Gottlieb's piece was rather brave (and, of course, I agree with him). I think truth and justice do matter, and I'm glad Miller has been called, publicly, on the shifting sands of her response and explanation for this. I'm very glad that Elizabeth Zimmer at the Voice has offered Tobias space, but it's not the same thing. It will be shared space, and her pieces will be not quite as visible and, more important, there will be no dance criticism in one of the major magazines which purports to cover the New York "scene." So from this week, any Big Apple Newcomer, or teen coming of age on the magazine stand, will not even have a glimmer that dance might interest him, or might be important. I thought Gottlieb's take on this quite fine, especially this quote:

Thanks for that, Rachel -- I still got a "connection refused" message. We can only hope that it's because thousands of angry dance fans are trying to click on Gottlieb's article!

Thanks for that, Rachel -- I still got a "connection refused" message. We can only hope that it's because thousands of angry dance fans are trying to click on Gottlieb's article!

Robert Gottlieb has written about the New York Magazine situation in the Observer. Someone sent me this link I haven't been able to access the site -- I get a connection refused message (5, 5:30 p.m. EST) but we may have better luck later. For then: Robert Gottlieb in the current NY Observer on the dismissal of Tobi Tobias et al. http://www.observer.com/pages/dance.asp

Robert Gottlieb has written about the New York Magazine situation in the Observer. Someone sent me this link I haven't been able to access the site -- I get a connection refused message (5, 5:30 p.m. EST) but we may have better luck later. For then: Robert Gottlieb in the current NY Observer on the dismissal of Tobi Tobias et al. http://www.observer.com/pages/dance.asp

I think the point that if a newspaper -- and that includes one of its editors -- wants to claim the moral high ground on sexism, it is damned hard to do that while standing in a pool of personal ads, regardless of the financial need of the newspaper. And the anti-ballet stance permeates reviews in the Voice. Manhattnik, I hope you do send that as a Letter to the Editor. Perhaps we don't have enough strength for another email campaign, but if you click on the Voice link, you can easily find a screen that says Letter to the Editor.

I think the point that if a newspaper -- and that includes one of its editors -- wants to claim the moral high ground on sexism, it is damned hard to do that while standing in a pool of personal ads, regardless of the financial need of the newspaper. And the anti-ballet stance permeates reviews in the Voice. Manhattnik, I hope you do send that as a Letter to the Editor. Perhaps we don't have enough strength for another email campaign, but if you click on the Voice link, you can easily find a screen that says Letter to the Editor.

There is (or was) a condensed version (along with Swan Lake (with Ulanova, Sergeyev and Dudinskaya) and Fountains of Baksichirai (with Ulanova and Plisetskaya) on a video called Stars of the Russian Ballet. I don't know if it's still available, but you could do a search on Amazon and find out.

Thanks for posting this, Ed. I hope some of our Bay Area visitors will see it. San Francisco has such a rich and diverse dance scene, and one of the reasons is because there are so many small companies like this one. $150,000 is not insurmountable -- I hope they make it.

There was also an excellent study of the Camargo Society by Kathrine Sorley Walker published in Dance Chronicle about four years ago. Like rg, I can't give you the number and volume, but would direct you to the NYpublic library catalog. Dance Chronicle may well be in your local library. (And Walker has been doing a series of articles on British ballet companies that may interest you as well.) There's also a bit of information in the biographies of Frederick Ashton by David Vaughan and Julie Kavanaugh.

Second!

Thanks for posting this, dirac. Sob. We're in the middle of the three (or is it 23?) times a year pledge drive, and so the programming is all HOW TO MAKE A MILLION DOLLARS OVERNIGHT SCREAM SCREAM SCREAM and How to Get In Touch With Your Inner Karma, mixed with endless, absolutely endless, concerts by very old rock stars. This is appealing to the young? And the 999th rerun of Antiques Roadshow and As Time Goes By? If I had to choose one quote from McGhee, it would be this one: "''The people who probably don't watch much of anything are taken with the notion that, well, there are all these other services offering what public television is offering, so why do we need it? Isn't there a History Channel? Isn't there a CNN? Isn't everything already there? The answer is no, not by a long shot. ... We try to say something that hasn't been said before, not simply rehash what is already known. We don't shoot things down because people won't be interested in them. ... It's our job to make people interested.'' "It's our job to make people interested." That, to me, is at the bottom of so many of the issues we talk about. It goes to newspaper coverage, magazines dropping dance reviews, what's on television, what's in your company's repertory this year. There's no confidence that I've seen something really good and want to tell you about it, no risk taking (this Beethoven fellow really wowed them in the salons last year, but on the applause meter, he only scores a 6, so, sorry....) If public television doesn't try to make people interested, who will? (obviously no one. I know. I know.)

I don't mean to interrupt the discussion possibilities raised by Morris Neighbor; this is a signpost post Allegro and Farrell Fan, I split off the discussion raised by Allegro about the similarity of Diamond Project ballets to its own thread here: http://www.balletalert.com/forum/showthrea...=&threadid=6527

Thanks for pointing that out, FF, and I hope Allegro enjoys reading it. But Allegro has also brought up a different angle to the Diamond Project and I think it might be interesting to discuss it. Allegro, often one reads that the Diamond Project ballets aren't ENOUGH like Balanchine's ballets, but others raise the issue that they're all descended from a specific sub-style of Balanchine ballets, the Stravinsky (Agon, Violin Concerto, Symphony in 3 Movements) while ignoring vast acres of his choreography. What do you all think of this? And, Allegro, what would you like to see in the Diamond Project, or other new works for NYCB?

I'm absolutely appalled by this. First off, it sounds as though an organization has hijacked an issue for its own purposes -- and done very nicely. Oh, how important they are, suddenly. This is a group whose major constituency are the downtown dance people, who are always upset that they don't get much coverage (a very just cause!) but New York Mag, as a mainstream publication, will never cover them, any more than it will cover church basement theater or concerts. Tobias wasn't ignoring them; it's not the magazine's turf. It is absolutely not credible that they intended to replace Tobias all along, that they thought there was a problem with her writing, or anything of the sort. If that had been the case, they would have said so at the outset, in Form Responses #1-3. I've known four other people who've lost their dance beats -- all older peoplel not coincidentally. One was told to his face that his writing had deteriorated (a blatant lie). One was told that there was nothing wrong with his writing but he'd been writing for the paper so long that they simply wanted a new voice. One was told the paper was changing its coverage from serious reviews to reviews with a more gossipy slant, and she'd be welcome to stay on if she could do that, and do features and interviews as well. And one was simply told the paper didn't want him any more. No explanation at all. It's much more likely that Miller was desperate to find a way out of this and did. But it's not even a cousin of a victory. And, sometime next year, when Little Miss Jennifer Isawmyfirstballetlastyearandlikewow! breezes on, if that happens, I hope you'll all write again.

I'm absolutely appalled by this. First off, it sounds as though an organization has hijacked an issue for its own purposes -- and done very nicely. Oh, how important they are, suddenly. This is a group whose major constituency are the downtown dance people, who are always upset that they don't get much coverage (a very just cause!) but New York Mag, as a mainstream publication, will never cover them, any more than it will cover church basement theater or concerts. Tobias wasn't ignoring them; it's not the magazine's turf. It is absolutely not credible that they intended to replace Tobias all along, that they thought there was a problem with her writing, or anything of the sort. If that had been the case, they would have said so at the outset, in Form Responses #1-3. I've known four other people who've lost their dance beats -- all older peoplel not coincidentally. One was told to his face that his writing had deteriorated (a blatant lie). One was told that there was nothing wrong with his writing but he'd been writing for the paper so long that they simply wanted a new voice. One was told the paper was changing its coverage from serious reviews to reviews with a more gossipy slant, and she'd be welcome to stay on if she could do that, and do features and interviews as well. And one was simply told the paper didn't want him any more. No explanation at all. It's much more likely that Miller was desperate to find a way out of this and did. But it's not even a cousin of a victory. And, sometime next year, when Little Miss Jennifer Isawmyfirstballetlastyearandlikewow! breezes on, if that happens, I hope you'll all write again.

A new -- and, to me, disturbing -- twist in the case of New York Magazine dumping its dance column -- whoops, no, now that's not what they did, no no, they meant to say they dumped Tobias. Here's a press release from DanceNY, a representative of which met with NYMag editor Caroline Miller:

A new -- and, to me, disturbing -- twist in the case of New York Magazine dumping its dance column -- whoops, no, now that's not what they did, no no, they meant to say they dumped Tobias. Here's a press release from DanceNY, a representative of which met with NYMag editor Caroline Miller:

This is a response to one of the form responses, posted with permission of the writer: Dear Ms. Miller, I can't help but feel that if you truly realized just how "painful" this choice is, you wouldn't be making it. Which readers are you hoping to serve by removing one of the great and moral voices in the arts? To pretend that previews (those little boxes?) and listings (come on!) constitute dance coverage seems disingenuous. I love that you're doing a feature on Mark Morris, but how often are those going to come along? And without the context provided by regular, thoughtful reviews of his work, what will such a staff-written feature contribute? Tobi Tobias is the reason I read your dance coverage: every review is an epiphany. She's entertaining, too, in the satisfying way that only a brilliant writer can be. How can you bear to lose her? Artists need to have their work written about intelligently, and readers need a guide they can trust. For the twenty years I've been reading it, New York Magazine has fostered this artistic dialogue. I'm sorry to think that you haven't realized or appreciated the pearls on your own pages, but maybe it's not too late. Don't cancel this rreplaceable column--it's a giant step in the wrong direction. Sincerely, June Omura

This is a response to one of the form responses, posted with permission of the writer: Dear Ms. Miller, I can't help but feel that if you truly realized just how "painful" this choice is, you wouldn't be making it. Which readers are you hoping to serve by removing one of the great and moral voices in the arts? To pretend that previews (those little boxes?) and listings (come on!) constitute dance coverage seems disingenuous. I love that you're doing a feature on Mark Morris, but how often are those going to come along? And without the context provided by regular, thoughtful reviews of his work, what will such a staff-written feature contribute? Tobi Tobias is the reason I read your dance coverage: every review is an epiphany. She's entertaining, too, in the satisfying way that only a brilliant writer can be. How can you bear to lose her? Artists need to have their work written about intelligently, and readers need a guide they can trust. For the twenty years I've been reading it, New York Magazine has fostered this artistic dialogue. I'm sorry to think that you haven't realized or appreciated the pearls on your own pages, but maybe it's not too late. Don't cancel this rreplaceable column--it's a giant step in the wrong direction. Sincerely, June Omura

She was a Washington Ballet dancer, The One after Amanda McKerrow. She went to ABT, then Birmingham Royal Ballet. I believe she married well

You may change your mind when they start rethinking Concerto Barocco. Or how about Agon, in court garb, with ancient instruments?

For reasons that are inscrutable to me, the one in the post above worked when I clicked it. I'll try posting them again -- and try them first a note to everyone -- there are a lot of posts in the forums that may not be immediately visible. They're hidden. You can select how many weeks, months worth of posts to view with the little slide down menu. Try it! http://www.balletalert.com/forum/showthrea...=&threadid=2907 http://www.balletalert.com/forum/showthrea...=&threadid=2866 http://www.balletalert.com/forum/showthrea...=&threadid=2836 http://www.balletalert.com/forum/showthrea...=&threadid=2824