Birdsall

And I have a ticket for her concert already in November..! I do admire Madonna as an entertainer and even like some songs (what gay guy can avoid liking her songs), but I have to say I would never spend money to see her live, although if I won a free ticket I would definitely go see her show, b/c I think she puts on an elaborate show, not just a concert like singers used to do.

Oh, the image doesn't seem to come through.

Paul, Here is a pic a friend sent me from California. This might help you identify the one you mean. In this pic the second swan is Ivanova. Is that the dancer you were referring to that you thought was wonderful or are you talking about the first one who is Chmil ?according to my friend who took the pictures and was introduced to them by a Russian speaking friend...that friend said the Little Swans were from left to right Chmil, Ivanova, a girl from Moscow, and Shrinkina.

Yes, curtain calls can create issues. This isn't ballet, but when San Francisco Opera did La Gioconda with Pavarotti and Renata Scotto, SF Opera wanted Pavarotti to take the final bow, b/c he was the bigger star and the big draw for the audience. At least half of the audience was probably there to see him and although Scotto was a star, she was not the big draw that he was. However, in opera it is UNHEARD of that someone besides the title character (La Gioconda is the title character and so the soprano should always get the final bow whereas in Otello the tenor would get the final bow) gets the final bow. Pavarotti took the final bow, and Scotto was heard (and I believe seen on tv) yelling that these are "gente di merda!"

This topic makes my jaw drop, but not in a good way!!!! LOL I had never noticed this topic thread. But everyone is entitled to his/her opinion. To me the Kingdom of the Shades is one of the loveliest moments in all of ballet. I want it to last forever!

Bart, I had not read my Opera News since it came in the mail, so I did not connect this topic with it until I read the piece in question. Then, I remembered, "I think I saw a topic listed about this that I never read!" This is a very minor and small example but just last spring when I saw 3 Bayaderes at ABT, I noticed that Semionova seemed to really make a huge effort to give David Hallberg lots of credit and attention at the curtain calls. I actually thought she was terrific and he was slightly off his game, but she treated him like a God almost. I mentioned it to another person, and he said she is always that way. She tends to really appreciate the partners she dances with. Her curtain calls were very, very different from Part's and Cojocaru's. I am sure those two dancers appreciated their partners, but Semionova seemed to go out of her way to give credit to Hallberg. And it came off as genuine.

Since Ivanova came up (I brought her up), a friend sent me an article on her. It seems to explain why she is still a Coryphee. She has had an interruption and seems to put her personal life at the top of her priorities (which is a good thing) and is also taking pedagogy classes, so it sounds like she has a full life. I'm glad to hear that. I'm assuming I can post this link, since it is something we were discussing. I was very heartened to read that someone who seemed "stuck" in the lower ranks actually seems to be having a fullfilling life anyway. http://www.ballet-dance.com/200702/articles/Ivanova2006.html To get back to the topic....someone told me he saw Skorik in California and she has worked hard to improve her technique. He says there are still issues though. But it is nice to know. It sounds like she's a Fateyev favorite, and so we are going to see a lot of her. So we have to be glad that she's improving.

That's like when people find out I'm a jazz fan and tell me about the time they saw Kenny G. I had to look up who Kenny G. was even though I've heard the name before. Judging from a few seconds of a video clip I understand. Your comparison makes sense. I am totally out of it as far as contemporary culture is concerned which is why I skim Perez Hilton online every morning. I literally spent 20 years listening to nothing but opera although I would hear the latest Madonna at the bars. But at 45 I rarely go to the bars anymore. Perez Hilton is my only connection to mainstream culture. It is the only way I am able to hold normal conversations with people. I actually know who Rihanna and Lindsay Lohan!

I would have thought Les Patineurs would be immediately loved by beginners. Since I am new to all this please explain why you think it takes longer to love Les Patineurs. I agree with you about Apollo. And, yes, maybe the flash mob idea does introduce someone who might begin a love affair with ballet. I hope so. I hope things like this are not in vain.

I wonder if all the teachers/coaches could have a meeting with Fateyev and Gergiev and express concern about quality and the hours spent helping dancers not quite ready vs. the lack of hours spent coaching excellent dancers who deserve more coaching to perfect roles. Maybe the coaches do not want to speak up or they already have and feel it is like talking to a brick wall.

I did not mean to denigrate the event. Like I said, I think it was probably fun for the dancers and the people who witnessed it. They have these things in opera too, and all my friends knew I loved opera and would send me YouTube clips of opera flash mobs in grocery stores or other places. Somehow I think you have to be there to truly enjoy it (in my opinion). It would probably be fun to have it happen around you, but simply watching these things does not really do much for me. I would rather watch a full, normal performance any day either in person or on video. I've always lived in artsy, urban renewal areas (usually historic downtown areas) surrounded by ghetto, so I suspect I know the type of neighborhood described, but I also know most the people I have known even in artsy neighborhoods are mostly into Madonna and alternative pop music. Ballet and opera are still sort of "Oh, cool, maybe I will go to a ballet once in my life!" type of thing even today among the artsy crowd. Most of my experiences when a friend brings a friend over for dinner and finds out I am an opera lover, the new acquaintance will pipe up, "Oh, I love Phantom of the Opera!" This is like telling a heroin addict that you are into pot! LOL

We all know life is unfair, and I think we might be okay with some going up the ranks faster than others more deserving (afterall, artistry is a subjective thing....I will think one dancer deserving while someone else will disagree).....but I think we'd be happier if the flight up were not like a speeding train for some while the others are left behind for so long.

And especially sad when as a result the genuinely talented are overlooked. I can imagine that some of the dancers in the corps and other ranks who seem to be stuck get very discouraged. I have seen Svetlana Ivanova in The Young Lady and the Hooligan and loved her and was not really aware of her. I just use that person as an example. She seemed like an amazing dancer and actress just seeing her once. She's not really a superstar b/c I looked and saw she is a Coryphee! The Mariinsky site says she joined the Mariinsky in 1993. In about a year she will have been with the company for 20 years and only reached the rank of a Coryphee! That amazes me! Maybe a dancer can be happy at that ranking if she has a full life with a wonderful family, etc (I don't know anything about her), but it amazes me how some shoot up the ranks so quickly while others seem forgotten. Maybe this happens everywhere. But for talented dancers it must seem so unjust at times.

Right now my mind wanders in times and places..and videos, trying to guess who could had been an earlier case... That might be a good discussion for a whole topic all on its own!!!!

I am sure this was fun for the dancers and bystanders. I wonder, however, if these types of outreach events actually translate into new audience members or ticket sales. I don't mean to be negative. I just wish the world were a different place. I think the masses should be lining up for tickets to cultural events. I wish artists did not need to go out to the masses and introduce them and cajole them into coming to the ballet. I think the U.S.'s emphasis on pop culture (pop music) and the loss of music education in the U.S. have created a total lack of interest in the fine arts. The "arts" are now almost a niche product that has to be sold to the masses, "Hey, come look at this! It is not as stuffy as you think! You should try it!" When I was a teacher I taught low test scorers, and I took them on a field trip to see Alvin Ailey, and the other teachers (all very educated and experienced) thought I was nuts. They said, "Those kids won't appreciate that! They are going to embarrass you!" They did appreciate it and loved it, even the middle school "bad" boys loved it. They applauded like a Cuban audience and had their eyes glued to the dancers the entire time. I didn't know whether to watch the stage or watch the kids' reactions. I think the emphasis on pop culture and things like American Idol have made Americans happy with mediocre artists and they don't hunt around for excellent artists to listen to......I am probably in the minority but I find it sad that ballet dancers have to go out into public and basically show the masses, "See, this is actually pretty cool! Come see us! Please!!!"

This does conflict a bit with the notion that Lopatkina 'respects the classics' when she dances only the later versions of ballets, the ones re-staged by Sergeyev, rather than reconstructions that try to emulate the originals (obviously perfect reproductions would be impossible, but they restore scenes/choreography that haven't been danced in a century). I understand what you are saying, but there are pros and cons to the reconstructions. For example, although it is a later addition, I find the Nikya and the Slave pas de deux in the Sergeyev version of Bayadere so beautiful. Also, the Golden Idol is sorely missed in the reconstruction (although I hear they sometimes stick him back in during reconstruction performances). Basically, what I mean is that whichever way you go you win some things and you lose some things.

I guess that is how it works everywhere to varying degrees. It is often who you know or what extras you bring to the table rather than just pure talent. Sad.

Maybe the program was compiled and the clerk who was in charge of formatting and printing the programs out in Berkeley messed it up. Or do you think that was a Mariinsky decision to rank dancers differently in the program? Hypothetically, can it be concluded that if an ultra wealthy donor wanted a dancer to move up the ranks and promised big donations in return Gergiev might order Fateyev to promote certain dancers? Just asking out of curiosity. I guess what I am asking is not whether that's possible (anything is possible in this world), but is it probable?

I could be wrong, but I don't think anyone is saying that MCB should throw out its Balanchine focus or put on 4 full length Petipa ballets per year without any Balanchine in the mix. I think Cristian is just saying that there are resources of great Cuban dancers living in Miami whose knowledge and expertise are not being used who could help with style issues when MCB does the classics (maybe once a year). MCB could probably do a Swan Lake one day (with the rest of the season devoted to Balanchine and other contemporary works) if it wanted to using coaches who have danced it dozens of times. It simply takes the desire to actually do it, I suspect. I do think the audience attendance would be high at a Swan Lake. I would personally love to see the Black Swan coda danced the Cuban way with the backward hops on pointe and then a balanced cambre at the end (not sure if there is an exact term). That would make my day! However, I do think lavish sets are what Americans want, but someone mentioned above that they (semi-lavish) can be rented instead of created from scratch which does save money.

It is absolutely necessary. Substitute the word "Balanchine" by "Petipa" in your sentence and you will get a fact that indeed happens. Well, I was trying to make the Balanchine lovers (afraid Petipa training would change them) feel better about MCB continuing to explore the classics. You are scaring them again, Cristian! LOL

Someone posted in another topic on this forum that no ballerina is promoted to "Principal" at the Mariinsky unless she has danced Odette/Odile at the Mariinsky (guesting elsewhere with a different company doesn't count....has to be at the Mariinsky Theatre), so some companies do consider it a touchstone role. I imagine in Cuba it is also a must to dance that before advancing or before considered a top notch dancer. I do think that Balanchine has become an off shoot world almost all its own, but I think I agree that it shouldn't be. I think it is good to also know the classics. I think it will never hurt a company and will probably help. But this is just my opinion. I can't imagine learning a different style means the dancer would lose or forget his/her Balanchine training.

I don't think my previous message was clear.....I was rambling.....so what I was trying to say was: I understand many MCB audience members being scared if Balanchine is not stressed since MCB has a reputation as being a top notch Balanchine company. And it looks like they plan to stay that way or hope to stay on top in that repetoire. However, I understand Cristian's viewpoint completely also. Even if they don't stage Swan Lake or Sleeping Beauty anytime soon (not enough money or not ready for that style), they should probably begin some training in those ballets so that the company is ready when the time comes (maybe when the company is larger or the economy is better). I suspect Lopez might understand this by mentioning bringing in guests for things like Don Quixote. These guests might also be able to coach some of the dancers on the roles they are dancing if there is time. Maybe there wouldn't be. But the dancers would have more exposure to dancers, for example, who know the classical style very well. Just a thought.

I have to say that I prefer full length story ballets, but I am still new to ballet (watched ballet for many years when I was traveling in a city and no opera was playing, but I knew absolutely nothing about dance so didn't know what quality or lack of quality I was seeing). Only recently have I been refining my knowledge. I am coming from 20 years of intense opera-going and fanaticism flying to see Ring cycles and Normas all over the place, and I have to say that I would not be interested in a soprano who only sings 20th century opera. If she has not had any experience in at least some 19th century opera I wouldn't really consider the singer a true opera singer (how can an opera singer avoid bel canto training?) if all her training and experience only consisted of 20th century (although I doubt any well trained opera singer can get through voice training without learning and doing some work in 18th and 19th century opera...student exercises alone would require arie antiche). Of course, ballet training is different, and there are dancers, apparently, who have spent their entire schooling and professional careers dancing mainly Balanchine and other 20th century works. So I don't know if that is normal or not. I find it hard to believe any ballet dancer doesn't have at least a passing interest in learning the classics. With that said I think it is very hard for a ballet company to be all things to everyone. I sort of like how MCB in the past tried to do both Balanchine and a classical ballet (not counting Nutcracker). If there were a professional classical ballet company in Miami that was well funded (like if Cuban Classical Ballet of Miami took off and had lots of donors), I would be fine with MCB specializing mainly in Balanchine, but since that isn't the case yet or currently, I think it is a good idea to include classics here and there. Giselle and Don Quixote seem to cycle around quite a bit. But some classical ballets do require a large company. I can't imagine a small company doing La Bayadere with 32 or 24 shades (depending on which version you use). It would probably require using extra dancers from other companies to supplement. Either that, or they would have to do a 12 shades scene! LOL LOL Just wouldn't be the same!

I didn't like Madge being so vengeful and evil and then showing the white under her ragged skirts. I like the Mariinsky's version better where she is an old woman and James is sort of mean to her, so her revenge seems almost justified and really his own fault. Afterall, he's dreaming of an ideal creature and not content with Effie, so he is sort of a jerk. In this Bolshoi one Madge just seemed like she was purposely meddling in all the proceedings. And it was just weird that she tried to show him her white tulle under her rags. The dancer said during intermission it is to let the audience guess whether she herself was the sylph or a past sylph, but I thought that detail added nothing to the story. The dancing was good, but I think the Mariinsky corps dances this ballet much better.

I wonder why the Mariinsky makes Rothbart looks so monstrous in the Black Swan act. In the older Makhalina Swan Lake (commercially released) he is not made up like a monster in the face. In that video he looks like a normal man, so you understand why Prince Siegfried's mother has him sit next to her. He and his "daughter" are her guests. But if anyone walked into a palace looking like the monster the Mariinsky now makes of Rothbart I think Siegfried's mother would make them leave. At some point they decided to make him look very over the top monstrous, even though the sets and costumes look the same. Rothbart is simply more like a monster nowadays. Maybe due to ABT's version (competing with the monster in that version?)......