Aladdin82 Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I was at a thrift store today and i found a box of 8mm reel movies. It appears to be full productions of many famous ballets from 1960 to 1978. I don't have a 8mm projector so I haven't played these yet... But I do know that they were all owned and developed by Norman Crider while in various countries and states. I know that the 1977 production of nutcracker was shot in a professional studio... But the dates listed on these reels are 5/18/1977 (opening night at the metropolitan Oprah house?) so I believe these are personally shot and owned videos of the productions? Does anyone have any insight or knowledge on who can tell me what I have? My google searches has led me here. Thank you Link to comment
sandik Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I don't know if you've got gold or dross, but you've certainly got something! You don't say where you are, so I don't know how to help you find the technology you need to look at these. They're likely to be in pretty fragile condition, so you don't want to run them over and over again. My best suggestion (Amy R -- chime in here) is to pick one that looks to be pretty sturdy and (from what you can tell from the label) not very important and find a way to screen that. If it seems to fit your best guess (personal collection by someone close to the community) then investigate getting them transferred to DVD. There are commercial places to do this, and I think the prices have come down, but I don't know a ballpark. 1960-1978 is the last gasp for straight 8 film -- most people had shifted to super 8 by the early 70s. I think you're on the right track in thinking that these are very much home made. But I could be wrong. Link to comment
Mme. Hermine Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Aladdin, I'd like to talk to you about these, but as you're a new member I dont think I can contact you privately. Can you communicate your contact details to a moderator? I'll also contact one of them. Link to comment
Aladdin82 Posted October 14, 2015 Author Share Posted October 14, 2015 I Started scanning these tonight. here is what is here. more to come. Link to comment
Aladdin82 Posted October 15, 2015 Author Share Posted October 15, 2015 labeled Nutcracker Pas De Deux Pavlova & Gordeysv Jusy 1973 Link to comment
Aladdin82 Posted October 15, 2015 Author Share Posted October 15, 2015 nutcracker may 18th 1977 Link to comment
sandik Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Woah -- this is very special stuff. Link to comment
Mme. Hermine Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Norman Crider was a friend of Lucia Wayne's and these are most probably original film from her collection, However they may be contained as transfers in the library already. Link to comment
Aladdin82 Posted October 15, 2015 Author Share Posted October 15, 2015 Some stuff is marked Wayne. Who is she? Link to comment
Mme. Hermine Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Lucia Wayne worked at Lincoln Center as an usher and made a lot of illegal films by concealing her camera. This was in the 60s and 70s mostly. She has been dead now for quite a few years. Her films are part of the collection at the New York Public Library at Lincoln Center. Link to comment
Aladdin82 Posted October 15, 2015 Author Share Posted October 15, 2015 Why would they all be developed by crider? He was mailing them from all over the world back to the states to be developed.... Each box is post marked with stamps and mailing addresses from London, Italy, UK, New York and upstate. Link to comment
Mme. Hermine Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 I don't know enough about him to say. He was an international performer in his own right, that may have something to do with it. And with things of that age, I wouldn't automatically assume that the box something is in is the one it belongs in. Link to comment
Quiggin Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Thanks for sharing those, Aladdin82. Wonder what camera was used for the third frame - the image goes beyond the sprocket holes. Transfer speed is important, 16 fps for 8mm and 18 fps for Super 8 - erring on the slow side might be preferable. A wind-up camera could have been used for some of the reels. (My old Bell and Howell runs for 22 seconds then takes 10 or 15s to rewind, therefore there may be gaps in performances.) ... Kodachrome II was a great emulsion - creamier and more pastel-like than the first version. Please post more as you have time and patience. Link to comment
sandik Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 And with things of that age, I wouldn't automatically assume that the box something is in is the one it belongs in. Indeed. Link to comment
Natalia Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Norman Crider was the owner of The Ballet Shop near Lincoln Center, yes? If so, he was the biz associate/best friend/partner of Tobias Leibovitz, who recently passed away and the subject of our discussion on another thread. Most or all of the original films in the huge Crider-Leibowitz collection of ballet films (of which the Wayne films were a fraction) were transferred to VHS and many were further transferred to DVD. I'll assume that that the recent death of Leibovitz and aladdin's discovery of the 8mm films are not coincidental. Link to comment
Mme. Hermine Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Spot on, Natalia! And the films in the box that were Lucia Wayne's were not only transferred long ago, they are already part of the library's collection, such as - The nutcracker pas de deux (ca. 9 min.) / choreography, Vasily Vainonen or Yuri Grigorovich ; danced by Nadezhda Pavlova and Vyacheslav Gordeyev of the Bolshoi Ballet. The films that are not ballet are most probably all the originals of Norman's few films of his own performing career (he had a nightclub sort of act with two ladies), which he had transferred and which were at least partially put on youtube. At least one of the shots that the OP posted is from one of them. Link to comment
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