Nanarina

I found the film very interesting, although I am very familular with the backstage area and

workings of a large Opera House or Theatre, it is always an advantage to see other venues, especially when it is s a beautiful building and company such as the ballet at the Paris Opera Garnier. Even a "lay person" would be amazed at this production. I recently purchased Fred Wiseman's ABT Dance. film, and hope to do the same with La Danse as soon as it is available. Thank goodness for his love of Ballet. I hope he will look at another company soon.

Mine is Peter Martins "Barbie", mostly because my daughter forced me to dance it with her so many times.

Martins Barbie and Balanchine's Nutcracker Grand Pas De Deux are the ones that still bring tears in my eyes

Maria Kowroski did Barbies dancing

Letting children watch these Barbie DVD's is an introduction to Culture, not just a range of toys.

All my Grand Daughters love their Barbie Ballet and the experience has made them ask to go to a live performance, which they really enjoyed.

Nureyev's version. Breathtaking! When he tossed Merle Park into the air - twice - I was in shock. His entire choreography was the best and most exciting that I've ever seen.

Yes toeprints I too love Nureyevs version. That throw up into the air and the way he catches Merle Park was so spectacular, and cleanly executed. The final position when he supports her on his extended leg is quite something, he is rock solid and does not wobble or put his leg down quickly like some other Male partners do. Imagine the strain to hold the leg with the whole weight of the Ballerina along it and staying grounded. It is wonderful how it looks effortless.

Just as a matter of interest in connection with Nureyevs version of The Nutcrqacker, here is a YouTube clip of him and Merle Park dancing the Grande Pas de deux from one of the first performances with The Royal Ballet when he created it. You can see clearly the attack that was used to axchieve the difficult lift that has been mentioned in this thread. This partnership makes it look so easy the style and grace they seem to produce is wonderful considering the date of the film. The technical abilities were not so prevaliant in those days. It would pprobably help todays dancers to witness how Nureyev adchieved the end results when dancing his own creation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xI0m1JuQ-sg

UK Members or view with the Media Players on the relevant channel sites.

1.10pm Film... The Nutcracker with Macualay Culkin. (Could possibly be the Balanchine version with the NYCB) Somewhat dated but familular in parts.

9.0pm The Royal Ballet in Cuba, Carlos Acosta returns to his home on a tour with The Company.

(Possibly their tour in the Summer).

BBC4 8.15pm Swan Lake with Ulyana Lopatkina from The Marinsky Theatre, St Petersburg.

Documentary about two Brazillian Girls who hope t to become Ballerina's Finishes at 3pm. Prime time viewing on one of the main UK channels.

I like John Neumeier's choreography a lot, although I have not seen all of it, what I have witnessed I enjoy. There are some works like his Mahler sympnony that may not be appealing to me, as I prefer costume ballets, rather than those just in what could be considered practice clothes. He explains his reasons for using steps to create a characters role, which can be different to the norm,on the bonus with the Sylvia DVD, which you need to watch more than once to reconise what the gestures and mime represent. He speaks in great detail about the use of Delibes wonderful music in the production.

His Le dame aux Camellia's, originally created with Marcia Heydee, is truly wonderful, I saw it in Paris, with Agnes Letestu and Stephane Builon, and I was so touched it made me cry. However, the best portrayal was by Aorelie Dupont, and there were some clips on YouTube with her and Manuel Legris. There are some equistite Pas der deux's, with lifts that almost take your breath away. The final meeting when Marguerite comes back momentarily to Armand, known as "The Black Dress Pas de Deux" which some of the dancerfs call "Pas de Trois or Dance for Three !!!" is very passionate, full of emotion and quite explicit, it shows fully the love of the two characters, their despair, their longing. And it fits perfectly with the music, as does the whole ballet.

I consider John Neumeier to be equal to John Cranko, Kenneth MacMillan, Sir Fred Ashton and Graeme Murphy, taking each of their methods and productions at their own value. Their styles are different, but they have made a great contribution to the repertoire of Ballet.

What sad news, she was a really special person, I remember her well. I can picture her dancing the gypsy girl in Le deux Pigeons, wearing that black costume covered with gold symbols.

She had a wonderful sense of humour, and kept us in fits of laughter. May she rest in peace. Condolences to her family.

Yes, I think it was Cynthia Harvey who did the ballerina's role.

The BIG difference between the ABT one and the POB one is that ABT was in a tight situation, re both box office and artistic direction at the time, and the POB is truly solid -- and in particular Brigitte Lefebvre is truly impressive. Hermann was impressive in her way, but her policy of keeping ABT alive at all costs was gutsy but in fact artistically desperate.

Paul, Cynthia Harvey and John Gardner ( Amanda Mc Kerrows husband?) a Pas de deux in Fred Wisemens film Dance. I also videod it off TV, but not knowing it was to be broadcast,I missed quite a lot of it. All I remember is it was very long.

I'm spinning this thread off the Center Stage/Billy Elliot conversation/debate because dufray, Cabriole and Little Swan mentioned the documentary film BALLET by the great Frederick Wiseman. Let's put the Hollywood fluff aside and talk about a real film. (I know I'm comparing apples & oranges: but isn't summer the time for fruit salad!?)

I taped it off PBS years ago and it is without a doubt the most fascinating, satisfying documentary ever made about a professional company. The work ethic, joy, creativity, struggles, and tons of rehearsals that make up a ballet dancers life are brought to the screen without a word of narration. You are a fly on the wall of the ABT studios. Amazing stuff...

I will view it once more this weekend and try to give more details.

Wiseman's Company, Zipporah Films

http://www.zipporah.com/28.html

rents out the 16mm film for $200. or sells a video for $400. I know that sounds like a lot, but if you put together a group of balletomanes (one of whom has access to a projector) you are in for a treat. As Cabriole suggests, first check with your libray or local college dance dept.

And no, I do not know who that young dancer is; hoping someone does.

Cheers,

Watermill

HI Watermill, could it have been Paloma Herrera . Who was 18-20 years old?

I must admit, I've been struggling since Observer first observed a resemblance between Morgan and Fonteyn, and I just can't find it. Nor can I catch canbelto's likeness between Tiler Peck and Patty McBride.

Oh, well.

It's the eyes and the shape of the face I do not know Cambelto's two ladies so I cannot answer on that score. I suppose we all see something different in people. A friend who just watched the Margot official documentary said she thought Margot was like the late Princess Margaret. But that is off topic, as we are talking about dancers.

Have you ever heard her speak?

Join her for a photo session with Dance Spirit,

.

Thank you Carbro she is lovely, even could almost pass(with the accent) as a young Fonteuyn before her elocution lessons

Yes, I agree there is a definate likeness, between Margot and Kathryn, and what is also interesting is K. would speak english so that avoids the problem of say a Russian accent.

Have you ever heard her speak? Pity the BBC did not look further afield for someone to take Margot's role. The dance element would have been better as well.

I will carry forward my post from the earlier thread, when I mentioned the likeness between Aurelie Dupont and Dominique klaufouni. It is not just their features that are similar, but also their way of moving. They both share a lyrical expression and are similar physically although Aurelie may be shorter in stature than Dominique.

Also any likenesses to Margot Fonteyn would be very interesting. If you would be so kind as to state your feelings on this. (Dancers only)

I still maintain that the absolute stranglehold that vacuous mass media has is far more damaging to the psyches and development of children's intellect than being confronted with challenging material. And that there's zero chance a kid would sit through 40 minutes of niche market dance-based physical theatre when there's a whole world of drivel at his or her fingertips.

I don't know how we'd measure which is worse, lowest common denominator pablum or obscenity, since they harm in different ways, but my objection as I've said is not to challenging material, but to material meant merely to épater la bourgeoisie, or in this case Catholics.

But, how about we approach this from a different angle? The De Frutos wouldn't even register with children of a certain age, so let's say a child who is inquisitive, intelligent should happen upon a piece such as the De Frutos and ask about the symbolism religious etc within the piece. How would you honour that child's intelligence and perfectly reasonable questions by initiating a conversation with him or her? It would take some research on your behalf for starters, you'd need to know about De Frutos, his background dance, cultural and religious - there was an intellectual point and purpose as well as emotional one and indeed a commissioned one (it was made for the Spirit of Diaghilev evening after all). Then you'd have to research the transgressions of the Papacy historically, of the Roman Catholic church and specifically De Frutos' relationship with his religion. You wouldn't have to go into all the sordid details - but you could start an interesting and healthy discourse rather than censoring and rendering subjects taboo - most unhealthy approaches.

Ultimately though, the upshot would be you'd have an arsenal of facts and issues which could be spoken about and discussed with the child. That for me is a far more grown up and rational approach not only to this whole issue, but also to raising children who are open, aware and intellectually inquisitive.

Simon, has it occurred to you that most parents would prefer not to discuss with their "inquisitive, intelligent" children the sexual abuse of other children? That they might prefer not to explain to the child who's been channel-surfing, or the child who's been sitting next to them as they watch the dance, why a Pope figure is penetrating boys and pregnant women? My concern is for children who accidentally run across those disturbing images, and the fact that more explicit ones are available on the Internet is neither here nor there. Many teens and most younger kids don't troll the Web for obscenity. Parents are quite capable, without de frutos' aid, of a "rational approach" to whether and when to discuss these issues with their kids.

"Here Here" my sentiments too kfw.

Simon I agree with you in most respects, but one problem for me is my grand daughters who love ballet do actually go onto BBC4 and the Sky Arts s programme (the latter at their own home) they are 6 and 9 years old. At the same time they watch Strictly Come dancing , the X facttor and britains got talent, together with their brother like normal kids they watch cartoons. But I myself find some of these very violent, even the Disney older ones with Tweety Pie .Tom and Jerry etc are violent as well,Laurel and Hardy Abbot and Costello etc and they are meant to be funny, and we just accept them as that. My daughter their mother wants her children to learn about the arts, and encourages my helping them by taking both to the ballet etc. But the thought of them tuning in to any un suitable programme whether it be De Frutos or

another, really worries me. They are usually supervised. One day my Gransdson who is 10 and very artistic, and can draw anything, was caught with his pad and pencil copying a nude on TV, , he was actually allowed to finish his drawing, and was very proud of it. We felt it was in his interest of art. But where do you draw (no pun intended) the line?

Nanarina,

It's funny, I used to use the "it's for art" defence when I was a kid with a hankering for smut, too. It's incredible that it still works!

I suppose we could return to a Victorian policy of total censorship, cold baths, regular pre-emptive corporal punishment, stern Christian lectures, salpeter in milk, chastity belts and dressing table legs in trousers - because that really worked for them.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm just off to cleanse the streets of Whitechapel with my trusty scalpel.

Simon I can just picture you on your habnds and knee's with a bar of carbolic soap scraping away in vain. Very amusing, but about as silly as returning to Victorian values.

Simon I agree with you in most respects, but one problem for me is my grand daughters who love ballet do actually go onto BBC4 and the Sky Arts s programme (the latter at their own home) they are 6 and 9 years old. At the same time they watch Strictly Come dancing , the X facttor and britains got talent, together with their brother like normal kids they watch cartoons. But I myself find some of these very violent, even the Disney older ones with Tweety Pie .Tom and Jerry etc are violent as well,Laurel and Hardy Abbot and Costello etc and they are meant to be funny, and we just accept them as that. My daughter their mother wants her children to learn about the arts, and encourages my helping them by taking both to the ballet etc. But the thought of them tuning in to any un suitable programme whether it be De Frutos or

another, really worries me. They are usually supervised. One day my Gransdson who is 10 and very artistic, and can draw anything, was caught with his pad and pencil copying a nude on TV, , he was actually allowed to finish his drawing, and was very proud of it. We felt it was in his interest of art. But where do you draw (no pun intended) the line?

Nanarina,

It's funny, I used to use the "it's for art" defence when I was a kid with a hankering for smut, too. It's incredible that it still works!

I suppose we could return to a Victorian policy of total censorship, cold baths, regular pre-emptive corporal punishment, stern Christian lectures, salpeter in milk, chastity belts and dressing table legs in trousers - because that really worked for them.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm just off to cleanse the streets of Whitechapel with my trusty scalpel.

Simon, I can just see you on your hands and knees, with a bar of carbolic soap scraping away in vain. About as ridiculas as it would be to return to the Victorian beliefs.

You know what I was thinking and decided it'd be a far better World if there was indeed any real danger and possibility that an impressionable young person would ever be inclined to switch on a specialist arts channel and be confronted with troubling, thought provoking, challenging and even downright disturbing material with intellectual weight and power, than the reality that that same young person is 100% certain to opt for switching onto American Idol, Hannah Montana, X Factor or any other lobotomising crap that makes up the majority of modern media.

This whole argument of complete censorship for the few remaining outlets in the mass media where content comes above popularity is deeply dangerous, it's asking to silence the few places where challenging and dissenting artistic voices can actually still be heard.

Simon I agree with you in most respects, but one problem for me is my grand daughters who love ballet do actually go onto BBC4 and the Sky Arts s programme (the latter at their own home) they are 6 and 9 years old. At the same time they watch Strictly Come dancing , the X facttor and britains got talent, together with their brother like normal kids they watch cartoons. But I myself find some of these very violent, even the Disney older ones with Tweety Pie .Tom and Jerry etc are violent as well,Laurel and Hardy Abbot and Costello etc and they are meant to be funny, and we just accept them as that. My daughter their mother wants her children to learn about the arts, and encourages my helping them by taking both to the ballet etc. But the thought of them tuning in to any un suitable programme whether it be De Frutos or

another, really worries me. They are usually supervised. One day my Gransdson who is 10 and very artistic, and can draw anything, was caught with his pad and pencil copying a nude on TV, , he was actually allowed to finish his drawing, and was very proud of it. We felt it was in his interest of art. But where do you draw (no pun intended) the line?

Nanarina, I believe the Nureyev biopic cited in this thread is the one under discussion here.

Thank you Carbro for the information, this film sounds a bit weird!!!