vrsfanatic

Not having seen the performances of the Kirov in question (for that matter I have not seen the Kirov in almost 7 years) however, I do have a few quick questions! And perhaps some not so quick comments.

Cygnet, could you please explain what you mean here? I am not quite sure I understand what you mean.

...Training is another issue beacuse the Vaganova system cuts the body in half horizontally, and SAB cuts the body in half vertically...

and

...but do they know enough about a ballet like Prodigal to intervene in such matters? And do they have the necessary authority?...

... I think Gottlieb rightly questions the knowledge and the authority of the “local” coaches after the Balanchine ballet masters have left the building. How safe is it to be coached by someone who never danced Balanchine himself?...

If this is being questioned regarding Kirov dancers performing Balanchine then perhaps it also could be questioned for dancers everywhere dancing many ballets they are rehearsed in, by coaches who also have never performed various ballets? It is actually a very common practice within the ballet world to have coaches who have never performed ballets by various choreographers. Many choreographers and Directors even present to the audience their versions of standard classical works that they themselves have never performed. Not saying this is wrong, just that it is done by many.

While studying in Vaganova Academy, I had the distinct pleasure of watching I. Zubkovskaya reconstruct the female variation from Tchaikovsky Pas de Deux for one of her seventh year students to perform in the small theatre in the school (not a public performance). I assumed she learned it from video (my guess would be the G. Kirkland). I never asked, I just sat quietly watching day after day as she taught her student. It was a most interesting process indeed. Many things were alien to them from the musicality, to arm movements and steps. Speed was not a problem actually since the seventh year program requires lightening fast foot work at the barre and in the centre. The way the actual steps are combined was a challenge however. Just as taking class with a different teacher is something to adjust to for a dancer, so is becoming acustom to the way a particular choreographer combines steps to create the movement.

There were a few rehearsals that the Artistic Director, I. Belsky, came to watch (upstairs, in Rep Zal, where unless you get all the way upstage in the studio and look up you could not see who is watching). It was interesting to sit there quietly with Mr. Belsky commenting to me periodically about the movement. There I was, some sort of American/Balanchine trained dancer/teacher thinking about the mistakes and the things they just did not know about Balanchine training when all of a sudden, Mr. Belsky blurts out, "no, no,no that is all wrong." And you know what, he was all right! I do not remember what it was exactly (this was almost 10 years ago) but I do remember that what he said amazed me since I could never figure out how he would have known the right way to fix it! There was a 21 year age difference between the two men. The point I am trying to make is that sometimes ballet masters and coaches just may know and sometimes they do not. Sometimes they have the authority and sometimes they do not. Sometimes dancers take it upon themselves to "put something in" out of the blue that was never rehearsed. And often times, dancers do not do what the coaches ask them to do. Ballet is a living breathing artform. The dancers and the coaches all need time to develop in all roles in all ballets. One of the first things my teachers, J. Schneider, J. Cunova and Valentina V. Rumyanseva, asked me when I began to study Vaganova pedagogy was why are you doing this? What were my intentions? Over the 10 years of study, the answer evolved. Madame Cunova and Madame Rumyanseva used to tell me, you cannot make your dancers like Mariinsky dancers because of the cultural differences. Help your students to retain their national identity, but give them the tools to work as dancers for all choreographers. All they will need is time and then there will be another generation of dancers, critics and balletomanes who will discuss endlessly the various aspects of this that or the other. These conversations will always take place, thank goodness. Do we get further way from what was originally intended? I, for one, will never know, but aren't we at a lucky time in the developement of ballet that we can actually be involved in this remarkable period in history when all dancers are free again to learn everything that is out there?

LOL, Major Johnson!

My teacher used to say..."like placing a precious item (toy) on the top shelf. Remember you do not want to break it." I have used that one with older students, but not young ones. I am afraid that would encourage them to climb in the closets! :shrug:

Thanks Major Johnson, what great information!

The last weekend of July is not a good time to find much going on at Vaganova Academy. The school has it's vacation usually for the entire month of July, August and into early September. Email the tourist agency anyway. There may be something. You never know unless you try.

Also go on the Kirov website to see what is going on at the theatre. www.mariinsky.ru.ballet

The website is easy to understand with a bit of practice. You can see what performances maybe happening while you are there. What a great experience. Enjoy!

sylphide, there are so many famous picture and studios in that school. Do you mean the Rep Zal, aka Vaganova studio? I never did that, but now that you mention it, I will do that the next time I am there!

I think your teacher has very good judgement. This is a very difficult time of year for all in Vaganova Academy. What about signing up for the course that they offer as a tour? Go on the website and contact the tourist agency in CA (USA) that deals with the reservations for this! When are you planning to go?

Mr. Haegeman, thank you for the update on Mr. Nadirov. I would say this is a big step forward.

sylphide, thank you very much, however I am however just someone who attended the two year pedagogy program, as a foreign teacher. My information is now, already 10 years old. I may hear things from my Russian friends, but there are many things I am not up on. Mr. Haegeman, is much more connected to what is going on at the Kirov and the Bolshoi now. Contact Altynai Asylmuratova, as Mr. Haegeman has suggested.

Enjoy!

Vaganova Academy does not allow visitors from the outside very often. My suggestion would be to send a FAX to Mr. Nadirov, Academy Principal, requesting a visit. Mr. Nadirov does speak English, but is not well known for responding.

My suggestion would be to begin early to try to work it out. There is a lot of "red tape". If you know anyone with political clout within the ballet world, it may help you, but then again, it may not. When I was in school there, no one could enter with permission directly from him. Look at the website: www.vaganova.ru/eng.html

Also: VAGANOVA BALLET ACADEMY

2 Rossi Street

St.Petersburg

191011

Russia

E-mail: vagan@mail.lanck.net

Fax: +7 (812) 315 53 90

Once Mr. Nadirov knows you, he is very kind and polite, but getting to know him is not accomplished easily.

Not being sure of Cecchetti arms, I can only guess what is being asked. I think you are asking what would be the equivalent of Vaganova, one arm in first allonge, the other in third allonge. There are only 3 basic arm positions in Vaganova. All are done rounded and in allonge and described just in that way. There are also 4 arabesque arms that correspond to the legs.

The other questions, are interesting, but I do not have the answers to those. "Alligator arms" ? :speechless:

The Little Prince, Antoine de Saint Exupery. A short fantasy on travel, but well worth it. For children of all ages.

While I was in Vaganova Academy 1993-1995, Yevteyeva was the teacher of Pavlenko, I believe. I am not sure who she had prior to that, but I do know that she graduated in the class of Yevteyeva, her first class I believe. There is still continuity and tradition with Yevteyeva though.

I just looked on the website...Iskanderova prior to Yevteyeva! Thank you!

I agree with Hans. Perhaps the most reknown and most influential (in the US).

gracey I think you will find more information on this and other competitions on the other board...Ballet Talk for Dancers. [http://balletalert.com/dancersforum/index.php]

Youth America Grand Prix and many of the other competitions recognized by the professional ballet community, do indeed require that the dancers perform the same choreography as the professional dancers. I am not familiar with the list of variations from which the dancers must choose at YAGP for each age group, but they are generally the same judges as many international competitions with the prizes in the form of a full scholarship to either a summer program or a year round program for the older students. These can vary from for example $1000.00-$20,000.00 if airfare, housing and a stipend are included or a contract to ABT Studio Co.

No school has enough money to just give away to dancers who are just good. They really do need to be exceptional.

As for your daughter's age group, IMHO, competitons include dancers this young to supplement the income of the competition. Competitions are expensive to run. Judges are flown in from all over the world, put up in hotels, fed and paid for their services. That is a lot of money changing hands. Students of this age group can wait until they are older to participate. I do judge a competition in Japan with many of the same judges as YAGP, the subject of age appropriate repertoire comes up quite often. We do try to alter the list so as not to have 10 year olds doing, for example, Black Swan, but we are judges not the organizers. We do not take the financial risks therefore, we do not set the rules. :shrug:

The photos in the links are just incredible. Glebb, how was the debut? This dancer looks incredible!

The system in England, I believe is PAL and we have NTSC in the US. You can take it to a recording/video store and pay to have it converted. Look under video stores in the yellow pages. The price varies from state to state, region to region and even town to town. My suggestion is to shop around a bit. If you do conversions often enough, sometimes it is best to just buy a multi-system VCR, which is expensive to start, but pays for itself in the long run.

Thanks Major Johnson. Interesting information!

There are still stages left in the US that are raked, of course. I think the question was about when they stopped building them that way?

I have no historical facts, however in the 1960s, when I did my first Nutcracker tour as a student, we were still dancing on rakes in many theaters. By the 1970s there were fewer and as the years have past I see fewer and fewer. However, in Europe, they are still building them with rakes.

...ABT does dance a lot of ballets originally danced by European companies, but saying they have a European classical style is stretching it a bit, I think. Each dancer has his or her own style, something those used to a company having a distinct style (especially the Europeans I've talked to about this) notice within about two minutes...

Again Alexandra, we are in full agreement. This brings the converstaion full circle in that the discussion leaps back to schooling. ABT does not have a particular training "style" in mind in the classes offered to the dancers. Without this, no "style" can be maintained within a group of dancers, particularly since these dancers are a hodge podge in the first place. By this I am pointing out their diverse backgrounds, not trying to pass judgement on the individual dancers.

I was watching the Baryshnikov/Kirkland televised Live at Lincoln Center, Theme and Variations the other day, with my accompanist. I was amazed at the clarity and precision of the corps work. Perhaps the year was 1978? I do not remember but it was late '70s, I believe. The point is I realized how the company has changed in the past 30 years. I am not sure if the school was open at this time or not, but I do know the training of the dancers were receiving in daily company classes at that time. Since the end of the Baryshnikov directorship, ABT has not had a Company teacher on staff. Rather they have a group of teachers responsible for training the dancers. I recognize that company class is a warm up for the day, but it also serves as a time to "bring the family together" almost like sitting down to a family meal, so as to catch up on life. These dancers do not have the opportunity to work together in a way that is central. They are always working on stylized ballets, but never getting back to basics. There are reasons for consistency and discipline within training, at any level. Perhaps this lack of training could be a contributing factor to the lack of a distinct style.

Alexandra, do you know if the Royal Danish Ballet employs a full time company teacher, as does the Kirov, Bolshoi, or POB?

Actually Alexandra, I do agree with you on this subject. It is quite a prevalent custom to take talented, schooled students, of generally good background and refine them. That has been the custom for years, but that does not say that one more year in their previous environment would not/could not have produced similar results! One would never know. It is of course enriching and important that the dancer was "trained" at the big name facility. These connections are life long and important to the future of ballet, but to discount the training one receives prior to entering the larger facility can be discrediting the hard work and foundamentals of many teachers who have provided the "jewel in the raw" . Also the dancer is much more prepared to actually hear what is being said, the older and more experienced they become.

bingham, I know Mr. Halberg's teacher and I guarantee you, he learned his elegance and fine technique while studying in the USA, Phoenix, AZ to be specific. Most definitely, balletic elegance is taught and learned even to the most artistically talented and physically gifted students.

The point of my original post regarding Mr. Gomes was that he was already a prize winning, well trained dancer with the qualities that exist today, before he ever went to POB. I am quite certain that the other American trained (meaning trained in the USA) dancers mentioned in this thread also were well schooled prior to their success in the professional world. Well trained dancers are just that, well trained dancers, regardless of country or method of training. IMO, no student can go to one of these internationally highly recognized schools attached to big name companies, study for one year (really 10 months maximum) and come out an artist beyong all others. One year is not enough time!

...I guess elegance can't be learned at school.

bingham, I am not really sure what you mean by this. :shrug:

David Halberg was already a prince at age 13 in Arizona. Are you sure he spent two years in Paris? I thought it was just one? :shrug:

As a teacher, I would tend to disagree with you about studying a system that one had not known before. It should be most advantageous to any teacher to study any method of teaching. It helps to organize classes, recognize the breakdown of movements, understand/be able to communicate with students from different backgrounds and open eyes to differering ways. It is expanding one's vocabulary! Not all teachers are able to see so clearly. Teaching can be a very isolating experience and as much exposure as one can have, could only help, IMO. It is amazing to really comprehend how many different ways there are to do things. Also, studying the teaching methods of any country/culture shows respect for their ways. More often than not, big name dancers do not always know instantly how to teach!

Yes, cargill, I do stand corrected. Gomes had been offered a contract and he turned it down to study in Paris! The point I was trying to make, although I did not do it quite accurately, was that he had already received an offer from ABT before he went to Paris.

I believe for the past two years she has been studying teaching in Melbourne, Australia at the Victoria College for the Arts. She is married to her 2nd husband, who is Australian (Lithuanian heritage). She found that in order to work in a high level job in Australia, she needed to study to be a teacher. I believe she is studying the RAD syllabus which is quite prevalent in Australia.