vrsfanatic

MissChristine are you discussing pirouettes from 5th or 4th? If you are discussing from 5th then yes, the weight is on two feet in the preparation. FYI, Mezenseva may have been a very beautiful dancer but she is not, to my knowledge, a trained teacher from Vaganova Academy. I assure you what I have stated about the weight on the front leg in 4th position preparations, as well as in 2nd position(the supporting leg only), is the way it is taught according to the Vaganova method. What is confusing for many (an perhaps professionally trained dancers who graduated from Vaganova Academy as students) is the recommendation to push off from two heels. This is indeed a very important aspect of the turn however there is no weight shifting to the back leg in 4th position. The recommendation has to do with the full usage of the working leg so the student does not use the working leg weakly. Read Kostrovitskaya, 1995 edition, page 360. A pedagogy book is only a guide, nor an edict, therefore, I will email my student at Vaganova Academy an find out if perhaps they have changed how they are doing pirouette since I was certified to teach 10 years ago.

ABT revived Gaite Parisienne back in the late 80s while Baryshnikov was AD. I have seen the ballet done at Teatro Comunale (Maggio Musicale) in Florence, Italy as well as by ABT. Both productions were lavish in sets and costumes by LaCroix, I believe, enjoyable in a theatrical sense, well danced, however some of the reviews said, dated in idea. Personally, I enjoyed it very much. There is a movie out there somewhere made by Warner Brothers, 1941.

The ballet itself was funky, funny, a very silly story, and an historic piece, quite theatrical. What a time in ballet. Interresting to compare What Massine was doing at the same time as Balanchine.

To be continued! Read tomorrows news.

IMHO, "The Lesson" needs to be deleted from all ballet company's repertoire. What a way to promote ballet lessons for the next generation and to have it considered erotic shows more than poor taste. I guess erotic is in the eye of the beholder! I do not see the humor in the Telegraph's listing of this ballet. I have never seen it, but perhaps the glorious movement might have found it's way into another title/subject matter to the same music? Who is the composer?

Disappointed here in Florida! :giveup:

"We've come a long way baby!"

The development of classical technique in Russia is an on going project. Vaganova began her tenure at the Petrograd Choeographic School (now The School of Russian Ballet named for A. Vaganova aka Vaganova Academy, St. Petersburg, Russia ) in 1921 at which time she began to codify her ideas on teaching. She and others combined and analysed the teachings of Cecchetti and Preobrajenska to develop what is today commonly refered to as the Vaganova method.

As with any methodology (in anything), there is constant analyzation for what actually is, in order to have further development. There have been vast changes in the application of teaching theories. Teachers are trained now in Russia, were as in Dudinskaya's time the training of teachers was only a thought. As the teachers developed, the students/dancers developed. It goes hand in hand.

Try to find video footage of G. Ulanova (graduated 1928), a contemporary of Dudinskaya (graduated 1931), also a student of Vaganova. There is a vast difference in style and technical level. They were two totally different types. They each had their "fourette" roles.

Also when looking at video footage of dancers from the film age remember, as has been explained to me by people who understand this matter, something is lost in translation due to film speeds.

I also had to learn to look at earlier film footage with a different eye.

FYI: N. Kurgapkina (graduated from Vaganova Academy 1947) is still working, teaching, coaching in the Mariinsky Theatre today. She is/has been one of the main coaches to many female dancers of the Kirov today. Some of them we actually call their Stars. Kurgapkina, until the late 1980s was similtaneously a graduating class teacher in the Vaganova Academy.

...They taught preparations with the weight on both legs in demi-plie...

Having studied pedagogy at Vaganova Academy aka Kirov School in the 1990s, preparations have been/were always taught with the weight on the front leg, never on two legs. As for Moscow aka Bolshoi...one leg also, at least from 1961 to the present. Read Tarasov. My late husband, quite a respected pedagog of classical ballet in the US and Europe, studied in both GITIS, with Tarasov and Vaganova Academy with Pushkin. Having traveled internationally with my late husband, as he trained teachers such as Gailene Stock, now Director of RBS, the information was the same. I am not sure what Darvash is actually trying to say! Perhaps she was confused by the advise of pushing from 2 heels?

Having just read the Darvash chapter in the Warren book, I can only surmise that perhaps the quote was taken a bit out of context or the Darvash misunderstood what she saw when she arrived in Russia. Maybe her memory was not as clear? FYI: Having studied from age 16-19 for the 1st 3 years of Darvash's tenure in the USA, I do have knowledge of her work/ideology when she first left Romania. She spoke no English, so there is always room for misunderstanding, but weight placement in preparation for pirouette is not something I remember having to change and she most definitely brainwashed us, her students, all of us between the ages of 15-19, that she was teaching pure Vaganova.

As Hans has already said, the teaching of ballet has changed immensely worldwide from the 1950s, however my teachers of pedogogy, my late husband and Janina Ciunovas, also a teacher singled out in the Warren book (my teachers of pedagogy in the USA), as well as Valentina Vasilievna Rumyanseva (student of Vaganova/teacher of pedagogy at Vaganova Academy in St. Petersburg, Russia, my teacher of pedogogy in Russia) , generations ranging from 1914-1936 (dates of birth) also basically teach/taught the same thing. I do not use the word "teach" lightly. I know too many teachers who give class. Please believe me, I was taught very well the whys and hows in Russia, by my late husband and his partner in pedagogy, Janina Ciunovas, and all my American teachers...weight on the front foot in preparation for pirouettes en dehor/dedans, from 4th position.

FYI, I do not believe Darvash is certified to teach Vaganova. She basically taught what she remembered as a student, as many professional dancers do. Although she is an excellent teacher, she herself says she eventually developed her own method.

Quite an interesting conversation! Addressing the issue of Russian turning technique is a big subject matter. To be as brief as possible...there are tours in a raised cou de pied, tours in big poses/from pose to pose and there are pirouettes. In my American training, which has been considered good by most professionals, there was only one catagory of turning. Pirouette!

In the USA, there are so many various ways to teach turning, preparation with the weigh on two feet, prepartion with the weight on one foot, prepartion with the arms in allonge, prepartion with the arms rounded. The rise to demi-pointe/pointe can also be approached differently, rolling up through a stretched supporting leg, rolling up through a rise to demi-pointe/pointe while the supporting knees in still bent/then straighten it, turning halfway around in demi-plie/then rise to demi-pointe/pointe, or springing up. Every way will produce different results mechanically, musically and artistically.

FYI: Russians must study and practice daily in class everything they do to all sides and the reverse. In theory this is done in other countries, methodologies, and styles however the reality is that often times because of time restraints in the West, more emphasis may be put on turning to one side or the other.

As for natural turners, this is a reality. Although I see many dancers (particularly in the male category) completing many revolutions in turning, IMO, not many are actually accomplishing the artistic characteristics of pirouette. Pirouettes are not to wonk around and around endlessly. There should be a fast, very clear rhythmical spot and musical definition to each turn. Tours, basically unstudied in the US, are a slower more spiraling turn. In the case of cou de pied/retire front, they are spotted, however in the case of tours in big poses, they are not spotted at all.

The Festival has a place in West Palm, and I hope they will be back next year. It will take more communication and publicity in Palm Beach County -- and programming more comparable to what they are doing in Miami. There's a big dance audience here, and it can be very enthusiastic and supportive, as Friday night showed. But to sell out the house -- management needs to do some extra work.

Thank you bart for your very interesting review. I was not able to go this weekend to either location unfortuantely. I missed a great chance to see J. Gatti (again). As for your observation regarding selling the house...the Kravitz Center does not have anything to do with selling tickets for this event since it is not sponored by the Center. Those responsible for the selling of the ticket are the organizers/management of the Festival!

I would find it quite interesting to see.

Thank you so much Ms Holmes for your kindness in answering the questions that have been posed to you. Wow, it is most informative and interesting. Your love of ballet comes shining through! We are most fortunate to have had this opportunity.

Vaganova Academy does not house beginners either. They have not since the early 1990s. At this point, I do not think they even have Russian boarding students at all, only foreigners is the dormitory at the school, although there was another dormitory for the Russians. On my last visit to the school, 1997, I was told that they were fading the Russian boarding program out. We will have a student attending Vaganova Academy this year. The school year begins September 1. Once he/she is acclimated I will see if I can get more current information.

...The methodology works for me, in my school setting in the US, but it is very specialized and may be difficult to implement in some circumstances in the US...

...be very cautious about stating that one receives training in the Vaganova style outside the Vaganova academy in Peterburg...

There are qualified teachers of Vaganova outside of Russia. Although I understand the concerns of Mireille, teachers of any methodology (Vaganova is a method of teaching, not a produced style) can be catagorized as good or bad. The dance education in the US does not allow for, at this time, the hours necessary to achieve the results as one may have in Russia, but that does not mean that the "formula" is not being administered correctly. In our school, we are two teachers trained in St. Petersburg, to teach and certified by the Vaganova Academy to teach the Vaganova method. Although our circumstances are not as in Russia, we do teach the method as we were taught and examined to teach it in Russia.

As far as body selection, professional schools in the US claim to choose selected bodies. I was actually really surprised in Russia to see the vast array of bodies in the school. No one was of more ample proportions/height/weight, this is true. No one had short legs or arms. Some had more turn out than others, some had bigger insteps than others. All had a natural jump, flexiblily, coordination and musicality.

Nora, if you could give us a title of the video it might help us to identity it better?

Is the title of your thread the name of the video?

One of the reasons that it might be difficult to teach the TRUE 'Vaganova,' is because the students are chosen at 10 years old and train for 8 years. In many US schools, the situation is different.

Yes, this is a very good point mohnurka. There are many aspects of Vaganova training in St. Petersburg, Russia that are different than in the West. Number of years of training can be added to the list, however many children in the US begin "ballet" much earlier than 10 (many students I question in the US say they began at 3 years of age) and finish their training at the end of high school which equals many more years of training than in Russia. Children in many professional schools internationally receive daily training from 10-18, but the results are not the same as Vaganova training. Daily training from an early age is definitely an advantage.

It is difficult to teach the Vaganova program in the US if the students do not study 6 days a week from the beginning. The results will be different, but as I was told in St. Petersburg, the program will not produce the same results in any country. National identity and culture does have an influence on the results. My teacher, Valentina Vasilievna Rumyanseva, wife of P. Gusev, had great experience in teaching the program (and training teachers) outside of Russia. She and Gusev helped to begin the schools in Cairo, Egypt and Beijing, China. People are people every where, but the culture will be reflexed in the results.

I agree, that was fun! I am Fokine, a bit of a surprise to me, but no objection! I also am Vaganova methodology! Ha, is anyone surprised? :hyper:

How does this program compare with full-time ballet schools in the U.S. and elsewhere? What are the pros and cons of the Vaganova Academy program?

bart, this is a very loaded question that can best be answered according to the viewpoint of whomever is answering. It is really all based upon opinion. You will find that there are varying schools of thought.

Having attended the pedagogy/methodology course at the Vaganova Academy from 1992-1995, as a foreigner, I can give you a birdseye view of what I experienced. The methodology works for me, in my school setting in the US, but it is very specialized and may be difficult to implement in some circumstances in the US. If and when implemented correctly, IMHO, it creates wonderful dancers, but any method of training is only as good as the teacher teaching it. I have found no cons what-so-ever, but our school is one of those full-time schools.

In short, my experience in Russia cannot be compared with any of my experiences in training, teaching or as a spectator in the US. Not that every single class, teacher, and performance was superb, but over all, I saw fully trained, skilled artists graduating from the Vaganova Academy and in performance. There was a total dedication to the bottomline, the training of the ballet dancer, at that time in the Academy. Money was definitely a concern, as Communism was winding down (actually did not exist, but the country was in transition at that time), but the Russian students did not suffer, accept that there were foreign students who may or may not have been up to the level of the Russians. The highest standard was demanded from all in teaching and as a student. In short it was a life changing experience in my life.

Yes, the "mad step" is in the 1st movement, upstage corps in 2 straight lines moving into center and out again counting in 4s and 5s with a sequence of rond de jambes en dedans with tendus, with the head and body and arms in opposition to the working leg, followed by a sequence of 4th arabesque, coupe. Very interesting mathematically. Funny thing about it though, I remembered it much better when I was performing the ballet, many moons ago, but to figure it out again after at least 30 years to help students perform it with logic..it took me a while!

...Even if they are comparing pre-Vaganova Russian training to more "American" style, I remember a lot of bending (certainly not rigidly upright) in combinations from my teacher, Anatol Vilzak (Russian star of the Diaghilev Ballet)...

The pre-Vaganova/Imperial Russian training of the Balanchine generation of Russian dancers is what was developed into Vaganova Methodology. The contemporaries of Balanchine, L. Lavrovsky and P. Gusev did become the ADs of the Bolshoi and the Mariinsky ballets. Vaganova was actually a generation before Balanchine. Dancers such as K. Sergeyev and I. Belski kept the training in the Vaganova school in accordance to the development of the choreography in the theatre. The same can be said for the Bolshoi Academy, however I am not well versed enough to address the Bolshoi Academy. If you are able to get a hold of a copy of Tarasov's The Training of the Male Dancer, this subject is addressed beautifully in the introduction.

I do regret that I was not able to have a conversation with Ashley or Goldner regarding their opinions, however it was not the time or place. Hopefully, one day I may be able to have a conversation with one of them. I keep thinking maybe I just misunderstood.

There is a "trouble step" in many Balanchine ballets. Specifically, if I recall correctly (having just worked as a rehearsal mistress for Barocco last spring. Sorry no notes with me since I am currently not at home), in the 3rd movement, the "trouble step" occurs traveling from downstage right, diagonally to upstage left, a series of ballonnes and piques in arabesque, setting up for the last formation to end the ballet.

There is also a "mad step" which is a charmer.

...I noticed the comment about Petipa style being "upright" and the more modern American style having lots of "bending"...This is SO Lew Christensen, too! Up, down, up, down...

FYI...I heard a number of years ago the Ashley/Goldner discussion of Serenade. There was also a reference to the upright Petipa ballets versus the American style having lots of bending. The study of Vaganova includes an incredible amount of bending in the middle and upper levels of study which lead me to think that perhaps the lecturers are not so well versed in the actual workings of Petipa to make such a comparison of the two approaches to choreography. Balanchine training and choreography, IMO, has a much more rigid usage of the body in schooling than Petipa performed by Russian ballet companies and Vaganova schooling. Choreographically, Balanchine employed the usage of what was considered acrobatics during the time of Petipa. The development of ballet in the 20th century has given us a more vast range of usage of various dance forms within ballet.

Yes, I am here in Japan. I saw ABT in Tokyo, the first day, but I cannot say very much. I was only able to go to rehearsal. The tickets were sold out at $200.00 a ticket. Not practical on this ballet teacher's salary. My former students were able to get me in for the stage rehearsal of the Rep show. Herrera/Gomes, Theme; Simfonietta(sp) is all I saw, but it was a treat. I was thrilled. The stage was smallish, but a lovely theatre.

I have read mostly announcements of performances. I have not seen any reviews in English. Perhaps I may be able to go to a performance in Osaka. I will let you know.

The most musical dancer I ever saw, in everything I ever saw her in...Violette Verdy. Having never seen Ulanova, live, it is hard for me to add her to the list, but in terms of video viewing, I would also have to add her to the list.

Thank you very much for your information. I will check this option, as it seems to be the only one I have thus far.

Would anyone know how to purchase tickets for the up and coming tour to Tokyo? Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.

I saw a very lovely program years ago (1992) in Sydney. Unfortunately, I do not remember the name of one of the ballets. One used the music to Jailhouse Rocks quite well. The dancers were well trained, energetic, and expressive. I found Mr. Murphy's ideas to be original and skilled choreographically. It was a refreshing evening for this classical ballet addict. May be it was also the charm of the fabulous Sydney Opera House, large or small theatre...WOW!

Thank you also for that very interesting interview. If you have the opportuntiy to ask Stiefel why he credits Baryishnikov as his teacher I would love to know (ha, although maybe I do not want to hear his answer)...

Baryshnikov, then AD of ABT, started the School of Classical Ballet. Martins extended an invitation to Steifel to join NYCB, but he chose to study with Baryshnikov. Then Baryshnikov closed the school; Steifel returned to NYCB.

Actually the main teachers of the boys in that school were Jurgen Schneider, Sasha Filipov and Sasha (Alexander) Minz. Baryishnikov actually only taught a few time! I know it sounds so nice to say that Baryshnikov was the teacher, but in reality he taught very little in those years.

Thank you Ari for all of your dedication, hard work and talent. You will be missed. All the best to you.

Dirac, welcome back! Nice to have you back. Helene, slap shot...goal!