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And WTF with John Clifford. . . in Facebook pages expressing veiled support for Martins and then publically siding with the victims?  I would not want to work with or near him either. 

Of course there are more cases.  There is a clear pattern, going back decades. Not surprised in the least. Only dismayed that people who knew were silent.  Good lesson to me about moral courage. 

And Katie M. is not wise to come out with ANY statements that are recorded. She's now going to find herself in court as a witness or in a depo chair or being flown up to NYC to be interviewed as part of the "investigation". .. perhaps that's her goal.  In her shoes I would only say something verbally if absolutely forced. 

And someone "did something."  These things are never about someone not "doing something." They are about rank, money, and power. AND about complicit bystanders. 

It's a bunch of people who shared an "open secret" . . . . 

On 12/10/2017 at 1:29 PM, tarantella2000 said:

I am trying to find the quote where a member (who seems to have disappeared) who stated 'that there is sexual favoritism also found on college/university levels'.

Is there another thread for that or can somebody explain or share insight into these allegations which to me were equally disturbing as well as the aforementioned ongoing discussions.

https://www.chronicle.com/article/UVa-Professor-Accused-of/241942

8 hours ago, Helene said:

Sometimes it is, and sometimes it isn't.  Sometimes it is verbal, but that doesn't make it less abusive.

I disagree.

Can you explain how you came to this conclusion?  Maybe there is hair splitting with terms???? 

How about this . . .sexual assault is physical assault.  Could you agree with that? 

I don't mean to detract from the thread but I find this honestly, insensitive given the context in which the statement was made.  Why in the world choose to make this point? 

4 hours ago, Helene said:

Thankfully, today, the Board doesn't have the luxury of sweeping it under the rug.

 While she had her reasons for dropping the charges, and at the time it was legal for her to do so, I think that understanding, not applause, is in order.

I applaud her.  She was courageous.  Had she not called the police and made a report and had her husband arrested there would have been no record of his actions.

So I applaud and applaud loudly. And I leave others to their choices. 

And yes, with her 1992 police report, an account in Kirkland's book, and now Kelly Boal's account. ALONG with an anonymous letter, that both NYCB and SAB chose to act on, this moves forward. 

Hopefully sweeping away this kind of thing. 

48 minutes ago, vagansmom said:

When I was in 8th. grade, a handsome 26 year old acquaintance whom many women (but not me-I was a kid and he was old) wanted to sleep with, hid in the woods near my house and sprang out from behind a tree as I was walking by, pinning me against it as he violently sexually assaulted me. The final part of the act itself wasn't completed because two people's voices were heard nearby, so he ran away. I pulled my pants back up, straightened myself best I could, and ran home before the people came in view. I showered and bathed repeatedly that day.

I never told anyone about this until a couple years ago; I'm in my 60's. Why not? All I can come up with is that as a female teen, I unconsciously knew I was powerless and it was better to not turn my life into an uproar.  I've spoken to many women in the last two years about it and they've shared similar stories. I won't go into how that incident shaped the rest of my life except to say that it's had a powerful effect.

So when people disparage the women and men who kept abuse silent, I remember my own silence for decades and know that doesn't mean the assault or harrassment never took place. We have arrived at a crisis point in time: I hope that NOW is the first time in the USA's history that justice stands the chance of being served in these matters. Whether it actually will or not remains to be seen. When I read the automatic assumptions that assault/harrassment  didn't take place and that if it were true, the person would have said something right away, I know that my hope is on shaky ground.

This is all frightening revealing about the public understanding (misunderstanding) of victims and how they will act. 

THANK YOU Vagansmom !!!! You are one of the BRAVE ONES! And we are NOT going back.  

Thank you Helene: This is NOT just sexual harrassment. It is assault too. 

Thank you to Darcie Kistler who did something , dropped the charges and then had NYCB Board Chair Wolff (sp?) say it was a "personal matter," casting her as an "emotional" female.

Thank you to Kelly Boal who actually reports being shaken and choked and being screamed at. (and who's account was in part corroborated by another dancer who was called recently to confirm.)  

Thank you to Gelsely Kirkland who honestly wrote about this in her book. 

Thank you to the anonymous letter writer who broke this.

Thank you to the journalists. . .doing REAL journalism and investigating. 

Now, I will ask those of you who are thinking "Why didn't they report it? Why are they just coming forward? Aren't they embellishing this for effect? Pretty convenient to lynch prominent white men in the #metoo era." 

I have had real conversations in my household with my husband who has expressed a fear that, as an academic, he will now have a target on his back and will need to "defend" himself against unfounded allegations.  But he already has a series of practices that protects him.  There is also due process in his work place.  And, he doesn't have affairs with other people. Also, were some women to believe that he was sexually harassing her, she would need to take the step of telling him or working with personnel to tell him to stop whatever he is doing.  And he would stop. (Yes, there are indeed crazy women out there. I know). A harassment case cannot be built on office gossip, one comment,  one off color joke, or the random inappropriate drunken flirt at the office party.  But you can't lay your hands on other people (this is true outside of harassment or assault).

If you are a man imagine yourself as a 15-25 year old perhaps someone who is on the shorter and smaller side who is assaulted by his boss. What would you do? You are from a working class family.  They don't have money to make your rent if you lose your job.  What would you do?  Now imagine that your are raped, or as a minor engage in sex with another man. How would you respond? You would respond exactly as these women did (the Catholic priest scandal has illustrated this nicely.) You would be confused, think you were to blame, feel humiliated, be deeply ashamed, feel powerless, be silent, and not report it. 

These patterns in the behavior of these women are not "female" responses.  They are HUMAN responses. 

And NYCB  does not have to decide upon any charges at all.  All they have to do is decide if they want to further employ Martins.  They could have many other reasons for not doing so.  

2 hours ago, abatt said:

I think we may be reaching a point where all  interactions and meetings between ballet master and employees must be videotaped and kept on file indefinitely, or a third party must always be present, such as a union monitor. 

How would this be possible? 6 hours a day of rehearsal? technicals? dresses?

I think that we are reaching the point where ADs will not engage in predatory behavior, assault, or harassment.  They will learn what it is and they will stop doing it out of fear and some people actually need that. 

ADs are not the victims here and ADS who have nothing to fear will institute protections for themselves but they have nothing to fear.  

This is not a witch hunt. Martins has created these circumstances. 

This all reminds me of the defense of Jerry Sadusky.   Everyone jumping in to the defend a beloved organization. 

YES Vagansmom!!  That's right, consistent discussions are  usually not purely fabricated. 

Yes, sexual harassment is hard to prove and yes a corps member told to "stand out" could be interpreted multiple ways.  So dispose of that report.

But now we have 3 verifiable reports of assault:  a) Kelly Cass (and another dancer who verified seeing Martin over Cass) b) Gelsely Kirkland (Understandably not super reliable c) Darcie Kistler-- who did "report it"--to no avail; and d) an anonymous letter writer.  If we want to stick to facts, there you go. 

And, well, it seems pretty reasonable that someone would want to remain anonymous?   

And yes,  there are resources. There are places to go.   But where is the empathy?  Think about your 22 year old self and think about what you might have done.  

No someone's career should not be dismantled based on hearsay and innuendo but that's not the deal here.

If this were an occasional mistake wouldn't people want to defend Martins? Radio silence.  There is not one dancer male or female who is stepping forward to defend him. 

NYT Article  (Let's add Heather Watts and Gelsey Kirkland--forgot I read that, too)

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/07/arts/dance/city-ballets-peter-martins-takes-leave-of-absence-after-misconduct-accusation.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Farts&action=click&contentCollection=arts&region=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=2&pgtype=sectionfront

I applaud Ms. Boal.  Bravo to her!  And why in the world are we victim blaming here? 

I can't wait to read this. 

Wasn't part of the issue with Millepied his attempts to confront the POB's racist policies around dancers of color, specifically black dancers?

Thanks Dirac. .. yes.  Harassment cases are not easy to win.  Widespread means a pattern and there must multiple people coming forward with very clear cut facts that are not subjectively interpreted. 

I don't think Darcie is a contender at all.

The allegations are at both school and company.  Yes, the suspension is from teaching minors.  But the allegations involve both organizations.

This is stated in the WaPo and NY Times

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/ballet-chief-peter-martins-under-investigation-after-sexual-harassment-allegations/2017/12/04/a474eae6-d3a3-11e7-a986-d0a9770d9a3e_story.html?utm_term=.a61518d2a991

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/04/arts/dance/peter-martins-new-york-city-ballet.html

The quotes appear to be taken from a letter sent out by SAB. But it names both organizations.

Also a careful read will also reveal that said interviews with Frankfurt occurred "Shortly before Thanksgiving."  And yet SAB/NYCB did not release or go public until Dec. 4? At least 1.5 weeks after they interviewed someone?

Is it possible that the letter was received by the organization sometime before Thanksgiving, that they investigated it quietly and non-publically and then decided to be formal and transparent because they thought that the allegations had some plausibility?

It's likely that both NYCB and SAB have received anonymous letters of all sorts, ones that they have not acted upon.

Dance instruction in the US does include hands on corrections in most schools and I have to imagine that is true of SAB. You can't teach ballet without physically correcting. But I doubt seriously that Martins is groping dancers during class or in coaching. That's too obvious and honestly, I doubt that physical corrections in front of 90 professionals is common. Company classes are different.
 

The likely scenario (and really what is being alleged) is a pattern of a series of relationships that may have advantaged certain dancers or retaliated against others. I agree that it is hard to prove because there is so much casting at NYCB and, in the end, casting is subjective.  Also, you would need people to come forward with specific incidents, which is unlikely.

In terms of harassment, the offended person needs to clearly tell the offender to stop (or get HR to do it on their behalf). If the offender is told--please don't say x, please don't hug him, please remove the pin up poster from your tool kit, please do not have conversations that are sexual in nature when x person can overhear--and the offender does it again, a case for sexual harassment is made. I doubt that a) any dancer has come forward to confront Martins and b) if ask to stop some type of behavior Martins would not--he is too smart.

The likely outcome will be this--The investigation will play out, without incident.  The board will immediately begin to move towards a new AD.  Martins is older. The organization is responsive to societal trends.  I suspect a replacement being announced sometime in 2019.  The board will make it appear as if this situation and replacement are unrelated, because legally they would need to be.

The organization can decide how to judge that information.  It's all subjective and slippery.  

Here's the EEOC standard https://www.eeoc.gov/eeoc/publications/fs-sex.cfm

"Unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical conduct of a sexual nature constitute sexual harassment when this conduct explicitly or implicitly affects an individual's employment, unreasonably interferes with an individual's work performance, or creates an intimidating, hostile, or offensive work environment."

The investigation will focus on evidence that he engaged in a systematic harassment pattern.  It will also investigate his interactions with minors.  

Mods remove if you want.  

Thanks fondo. . yes, that's it. 

Mr. Daniels, the ballet spokesman, said that since 2010 the company “has had a policy precluding a reporting relationship between a supervisor and subordinate where a romantic relationship exists.”

Doesn't this mean that  the policy does not prevent the reporting of relationships between supervisors and subordinates? As in its not required per policy.

Why no Millpied?  (I mean-- can you explain the objections?)

And the organization will probably act in the way that it has in the past. It will not take big risks at this point, given this set of facts.  So , my thinking would be an insider.  That has been the pattern? No?

I believe that Clara Ruf-M. .was injured in her first year of apprenticeship, given a second year and then not offered a position in the company.  I was her in Slaughter in a corps role and thought she was fine. I hope that she has moved on.

I thought that Whelan was honest about her choices and her focus on dance and her analysis of "the way it was."  At some level her singular focus was part of her rise and her success.  I was sad for all that she gave up but I did not get the sense at all that she  was sad.

She did strike me as going through things that many people her age had gone through previously. Ballet crafts a very interesting psyche.

I'm watching Restless Creature and it feels immensely sad and empty, in many ways. A talented woman who's having a hard time moving on. A person who has chosen dance above almost all else. The sad "icing" out that happens to dancers who are injured or past prime.  I do wonder if that's unique to NYCB or just pro ballet in general. I wonder if pro dancers avoid their colleagues who are injured or in decline because they so fear it themselves.

I also thought the Peter Martins actually came across as very humane and sensitive and it seemed that the situation was pretty tough for him. Seemed like he had been working toward her retirement for like 2 years. What patience.

NYCB is a very youth focused organization. Good and bad.

Bouder had a serious stomach flu two days before she performed and was getting fluids via IV the day before the performance

Now. . . let's see if Nedvigin employees the dancers coming through the school