Plisskin

Hayward is great, and I hope she becomes a principal at the RB one day. She has also distanced herself from conversations about institutional racism in ballet, which is her prerogative. I imagine that if she attempted to start a conversation, she would lose a lot of fans.

From the backlash Misty is getting, if she ever decides to do that she'll at least be prepared and know what to expect. But, from an outsider looking in, GB doesn't seem as bad as the U.S is in that regard. I remember Acosta talking about racism in ballet a couple of years ago and he faced no backlash. So it might be different for her.

She indeed has PR agent or agents to do all this, I totally agree Plisskin. She was on the news all last night and I saw her again this morning, she is everywhere. Stella accepted her promotion with grace and humility being the more deserving one. I understand all the hype and appreciate the reasons, however, I just feel this is a bit over the top for my taste. I just feel after seeing her dance that this was not a talent driven promotion, but now that it is done she will have to proof herself worthy. I guess there is a saying: Be careful what you wish for!

I'm not on the Misty hate bandwagon so I don't think Stella is "more deserving". Neither do I think Misty needs to prove herself anymore than Boylston or Seo whom also have issues in their dancing. I'm visiting family right now who has no cable, but if I became annoyed with seeing a Misty news segment (which it wouldn't bother me one iota) I'd turn the channel, just like I do when I see programs I don't like such as Dancing With the Stars or The O Reilly Factor.

Do we know that it was a non-ABT press conference? Also, no one is making anyone buy tickets to Copeland performances at gunpoint. Geez.

The real question is why would Misty be at an ABT press conference when ABT doesn't even HAVE a company press conference? Lol. People on this very forum have bemoaned on how piss poor ABT's advertising and media operations is. It's not a shock that she would hold her own due to this reason.

Here's the original message:

Ok "prefer to see non-white bodies onstage in a lead role" and "might never have attended any ABT ballet performance but for the fact that an African American is cast in the lead" is automatically followed up by an assumption that Misty will be over-cast so these same people will come to the ballet over and over again. Again, an automatic assumption of bad faith/ignorance on the part of the audience. They might be ballet enthusiasts from minority backgrounds who are excited to see a big dance event. They might be dance enthusiasts period. Assuming that Misty's audiences don't know anything about ballet, just there for Misty, is offensive.

It's not pointing out Misty's audiences that is, IMO, racist. It's the assumptions about those audiences and what they know/don't know/behave/what they're interested in. Also the conclusion that this will be a bad thing for ABT. But whatever, I don't feel like this conversation is between culturally/politically unaware people. I think most everyone in this convo knows about racial code words and stereotypes so all this innocence is very coy.

And this has been the underlying issue in these Misty threads. No one wants to say it and call it for what it really is. Typical of the U.S. especially when you look at recent events. A plethora of excuses for Hallberg, Seo, and a million and one explanations for why the online venom aimed at Misty is "different" and excusable.

Now people are hating on Misty's reaction? Lol, she really can't win.

Happy for the plethora of in-house talent being promoted. I knew Kotchekova's promotion was coming due to her Twitter faux pas but I'm not happy to see her promotion. Ditto to Nedak as well.

Hallberg did not earn his rank as principal dancer because of his claim while it is feared that Misty's claim might play a role when she gets promoted - not being the sole reason however. Criticism is aimed at Misty on various levels, not just one and mostly parallels to other dancers can only be found on one of several levels. Some regarding Hallberg, some regarding Hee Seo and Isabella Boylston etc.

So it's okay to lie as long as you "earn your rank"? Hmmm. Like I said, interesting.

I'd have to go back and listen/read but my recollection is that David Hallberg has referred to himself as the first American to join the Bolshoi as a principal dancer.

Nope:

http://thecolbertreport.cc.com/videos/pueyvf/david-hallberg

The first one is from this year. I can find more but I'm on my phone. Interesting how there always a million and 1 excuses for Hallberg and other dancers but not Misty. Very interesting.

Eh. Noone wants to call this backlash seen in some people for what it is to be honest. It's very much a reflection of the current American political climate and recent events in the last few years. Heck, few weeks. For instance, David Hallberg has articles in the NYT, Washington Post and elsewhere proclaiming himself as the "First American at the Bolshoi". He's said it in various recorded interviews even quite recently. Yet nary a peep from the same people typing up long winded negative essays about Misty's "First Black Soloist at ABT" mistake even though she's since corrected that going on 2(plus?) years now.

Has someone on this board called Misty's publicity "intolerably vulgar"? In fact, she and her publicity agent are doing no more than other celebrities do to capture the public's attention. The Times is not immune to au courant culture.

Go back and read the last thread and that will answer your question. One poster on this board even went as far as to say her coworkers hate her, lol.

All of the veterans in the corp are steadily leaving year after year and being replaced by inexperienced youngin's from the Studio Company. The corp is going to look even more ragged if ABT doesn't seriously invest in more sufficient rehearsal and coaching time. Which they won't. Who am I kiddin'?

I've never seen that done during the black swan coda, even at regional companies.

I'm sure Copeland's performance was probably very good, and as I find joy in most performances, I'm sure I would have enjoyed her today in SL. While I favor Abrera's dancing of all the soloists, I still think Misty is talented and has hatched her publicity plan based off the current messed up atmosphere (rent a Russian, aka star strategy) at ABT.

That being said, saying that Misty's performance is on par with Lopatkina (who is probably THE definitive O/O) is crazy, and only adds fuel to the Misty hater cause. Misty is a novice in performing O/O, and while she may have been lovely, she cannot possibly be on par with Lopatkina, who has been perfecting the role for many, many years. That is not a slight on Misty, there may not be another current ballerina who can match Lopatkina in this role.

Making such grandiose statements only hurts Copeland's cause.

Personally, I think if someone hates Misty because of a grandiose comment from a user on a message board, they have issues.

Anyway, I can't wait to hear how her debut went. I saw some snippets of her Swan Lake debut with the Washington Ballet and it didn't look very good.

Plisskin -- My post was based on the assumption that ABT of course wouldn't promote homegrown talent and would instead like the easy, instantly attainable option. I would so love to see talent emerge form the corps. It's one of the great joys of being a consistent ballet-goer.

Y'know, it's really sad fondoff that ABT is at a point were we can't even assume that they'll even promote from within the company. What a sad state of affairs this has become. If this indeed true that Kotchekova is one of the newest principals that ABT will import, I'm not excited about it at all.

Also, I just found out yesterday that, per Thomas Forster's Instagram, Leanne Underwood left a few weeks ago. Her last performance was Zulma in Giselle.

I wouldn't be surprised. With Reyes' retirement, ABT is in need of a pint-sized ballerina who can be lifted by Simkin, Cornejo and Gorak. (Even Sarah Lane, if she were treated more favorably by the AD, couldn't do this alone.) I'd love to see Gorak take on Solor and Siegfried, but I can't really imagine that with a ballerina of Boylston's or Copeland's proportions. Kochetkova makes Gelsey Kirkland look downright womanly by comparison.

I don't think the Misty fervor can last forever, but maybe it makes sense for ABT to promote her at this point. Her fame can perhaps sustain good ticket sales for the eight years or so of dancing she still has left in her (based on the career length of most dancers). ABT won't be left with several awkward years of less-than-stellar sales and waning interest, as they were with Herrera, a brilliant dancer whose star shone most brightly in her early years.

I think many of us believe that ABT is going to go through a fallow period for the next few years until the new generation of dancers takes the reigns (and perhaps new management redirects the company's course). Maybe Misty is just a natural part of that slump and will do her part to bolster the company financially and help it weather questionable artistic times. I think I can actually come to terms with that scenario.

There's other pint-sized ballerina's in the corp who have real potential and stage presence. Skylar Brandt for one. I also think Paulina Waski has real potential. However, ABT seems immune right now to nurturing their own talent and would rather import an overrated star who will be another principal in name only.

Honestly, I only brought up Misty because everyone's so focused on her potential promotion because they dislike what she talks about in the media, when it's highly likely that those vacant principal positions will also be filled by more imports who only come around during the MET.

Definitely! Add to that a 21st century website and an app that works!

That poor website is so sad and dreary. Looking at it I find it hard to believe that they were the front runners online at one point.

Why would the addition of Kochetkova foreclose the promotion of Misty. Both events can occur.

I never said it would.

Does Maria Kotchekova know something we don't? On her twitter it says "Principal Dancer with San Francisco Ballet and ABT": https://twitter.com/balletrusse

All the whining and moaning about Misty Copeland possibly being promoted, perhaps Maria will be announced as one of the newest principals of ABT this upcoming season?

Copeland is no worse than Seo, Boylston, Simkin, Whiteside, and Stearns. ABT has jumped shipped yeaaaarrrss ago with these promotions, which is why the company is in such a pickle right now with a lot of lackluster principals. Why people on this board, and apparently off it, focus on her and treat her as the Armageddon of ABT I have no idea.

ABT will renew itself by coming into the 21st Century and getting rid of it's old, tired tradition of being a ballet company in name only/ star driven company. They have enough money and the talent, they just need a new vision to take the company to better heights where McKenzie and his board can't take it. If they spent their money on coaching and growing their talented dancers, and 21st century marketing more people would come. They need to stop with the international touring right now as well and try to save up for their own theatre instead. They could have had one years ago if that was the focus...

Another round of pearl-clutching over the shameless Copeland? Yes, indeed, this is just the most outrageous PR effort ever.

Not sure why some people follow Misty's "PR" if they dislike it so much. I don't like Whiteside's "music" career and think it's tacky and distasteful, and do you know what I do? I don't follow it.

It'd be nice if this thread wouldn't be so negative like it was before.

I always have said on this board that, other than diehard ABT fans, a plethora of people aren't going to see dancers like Seo, Boylston, Abrera, Lane, Stearns, etc because people have no idea who they are. Also, dancers like Vishneva or Osipova not only had proper time to grow and coaching, but I can go to Youtube, Amazon.com, Netflix (or other illegal sources...) and see a variety of their performances without leaving my house. I watched a lovely documentary that Vishneva was in called Ballerina on Netflix a few months back. They have a lot of exposure compared to the nil home grown ABT dancers get. And that's not even taking into account things like live broadcasts they're now doing. Hallberg (and on a smaller scale Gomes) would have been in the same boat as them if not for exposure from the Bolshoi. Same with Misty. If not for her media appearances no one would go see her dance.

I have enjoyed watching Misty grow as a dancer. I just saw her dance Peasant Pas in two performances of Giselle, and she is looking better than ever.

I'm curious how people make so much over her status/ possible promotion and whether she "deserves" it, when little was said about Hee Seo, who, in my viewings has more technical shortcomings (but is perhaps more versatile in terms of casting?) If you go to performances where Hee Seo is cast, you will see more Asians in the audience just as if you see Misty you will see more Black audience members. The difference, from my perspective, is that Misty brings out the young dancers (of all colors) who are inspired by her backstory and her pop appeal. I think this is good for ballet, kind of like what happened in the 70s with Barishnykov. Misty has a slightly curvaceous body for dance, which I think inspires a lot of girls who don't fit the stereotypical waif-type. Moreover, she was a late-starter, as far as ballet goes. I think this inspires a lot of students who didn't get to start ballet at 6 or 7, because of geographic or socioeconomic limitations.

One aspect of Misty's dancing that is overlooked is her epaulment. Her shoulders and arms are always carried beautifully. I saw her in Coppelia last year, and she was a fantastic comedic actress. I do hope that she can develop a partnership with Cornejo and though I'm not clamoring for her promotion right now (STELLLLLA!), I despise any suggestion that McKenzie would be promoting her *because* of her skin color or publicity efforts. As I said earlier, I find her much more technically assured than Hee Seo. And I wish Isabella Boylston, also a principal, would learn to control her hands and arms like Misty.

You'll be despising a lot of posters on this board then because that is the general consensus on here if you followed that last tragic thread. Well, other than Misty apparently being such a horrible dancer and all of her colleagues hate her, lol. As for her promotion I don't think she's technically or artistically there yet. But I didn't think Hee Seo, Isabella Boylston, Cory Stearns, Daniil Simkin, and certainly not James Whiteside where there yet for promotion either. The latter I don't think was necessary to hire from an outside company when he is quite inferior to even corp dancers like Forster. At the time, they had a much better dancer, Jared Matthews, in the ranks they should have given that position to. I also don't like his side music project either that seems to evade criticism on this board. Gee, I wonder why... Man, if Misty where to do a song called "The Fanny Bounce" or "F** Them All" we wouldn't hear the end of it.

Also James Whiteside posed and he did perform.

I liked his suit until I got to the bottom. Not a fan of high waters...Yikes.

Well I guess some can stop the outrage over Misty getting her photo taken since other dancers whom also danced did the same.

Shevchenko's dress was gorgeous btw.

All this handwringing over cast changes kind of shows that ABT kind of isn't a real company anymore. I feel like with real companies, you can buy a ticket and even if there are cast changes, you'd still want to see the company. I buy all my NYCB tickets well before the season starts, and I do the same with the Bolshoi or Mariinsky even when i know how, uh, flexible their casting is. I think ABT's repertory is so stale or it's become such a star-driven company where people only follow favorite pet dancers that any sense of them as a company worth watching just to watch them as a company has dissipated.

As for Hee Seo and her now insanely busy schedule, it's weird that Kevin McKenzie hasn't learned from David Hallberg. I remember when Hallberg was dancing nearly every night. But the injuries piled up to the point where right now it's uncertain when he'll come back.

ABT has such a raggedy, under rehearsed corp. Atleast with companies like the Mariinsky or NYCB if the leads aren't your cup of tea you can enjoy the rest of the cast. Unfortunately that is not the case with ABT right now. If the cast gets changed to some of the less than proficient principals on the roster, not only will you have to sit through that but have to watch a struggling corp and at times under rehearsed soloists as well... If I remember correctly, when ABT was on tour in Japan a few years ago KM in a round about way said ABT was a star company. Many ABT fans don't like it but I think what ABT is now is exactly what KM and the board envision it to be. And will be for quite some time since his contract got renewed...

No offense, but I feel kinda sorry for the poor souls who will sit through a Hee Seo performance. Wonder how many technical mishaps or falls she will have now that KM has given her all of these performances she can't handle...

Uh...Good for Ramascar that he doesn't think about race. Here's a cookie for him... But posting his statement doesn't mean there isn't a problem with race in the ballet world. Especially when it pertains to females of a darker hue.

I'm not a fan of Copeland's dancing, but I've probably come across as one in this thread because I too, think some of the criticisms she has received has crossed the line into something way more than unbiased, not malicious criticism. 50 pages in this thread which contain some posters in here even going so far to try and tear her character down. Making statements that she's a liar, ABT dancers "don't like her" and other such nonsense. And I've seen this on other places on the internet too pertaining to Copeland.