Godunov and Bejart

[volcanohunter]

On 7/8/2024 at 3:21 PM, Meliss said:

And most importantly, you can't watch it, there are no videos left from that period. 

Godunov's performance in a Raymonda divertissement staged by Baryshnikov was telecast in 1981. His partner was Martine van Hamel. The divertissement consisted of the duet from the "Raymonda's dreams" section of Act 1 and the mazurka, csárdás and pas classique hongrois from Act 3. The female soloist variation was turned into a quartet, which I think was asking too much in terms of synchronization, and in addition to the "clap" variation, the divertissement also included Raymonda's turning variation from Act 2.

Looking at the video, I would say with certainty that Godunov's dancing would not pass muster today, certainly not at ABT. More importantly it lacked ease, balletic carriage and style. I also think that in terms of technique, dancing and hair, Gregory Osborne, in the men's quartet, had Godunov beat. Tragically, Osborne died at the age of 39, but not before dancing a broad range of leading roles with the National Ballet of Canada. 

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1994-01-09-me-10268-story.html

 

Edited July 17 by volcanohunter

[volcanohunter]

In memory of Gregory Osborne:

 

Edited July 17 by volcanohunter

[Meliss]

13 hours ago, volcanohunter said:

Looking at the video, I would say with certainty that Godunov's dancing would not pass muster today, certainly not at ABT. More importantly it lacked ease, balletic carriage and style.

 Looking at this video, we can draw conclusions directly opposite to those that you have made. Godunov is dancing easily and elegantly. Everything is great with his classical style and, especially, his ballet carriage. He is lifting his rather tall partner so easily, as if she weighs no more than a feather(2.23 and on). Godunov's variation from 26.20 is enchanting. There's just nothing to find fault with. Pay attention to the applause after it.

13 hours ago, volcanohunter said:

I also think that in terms of technique, dancing and hair, Gregory Osborne, in the men's quartet, had Godunov beat.

It was really funny, especially about the hair)). 

Hair is, of course, the main indicator of a dancer's skill.

[Meliss]

13 hours ago, volcanohunter said:

Gregory Osborne

A wonderful dancer - and well deserves a separate topic.

[Fraildove]

Again, former dancer and current teacher here. Volcanohunter does have a basis and legitimate opinion on his dancing. We don’t always have to agree with other’s opinion, but technique in ballet, especially Vaganova/Tarasov technique. A few examples is Godunov’s landing with a turned in leg, his lack of fully pointing his feet through the toes, his releve that is only about 2” off the floor in pirouettes… there is more but I honestly don’t have time to write everything. Things like this are why his technique would not stand today. Yes, he can be an engaging performer. But in this variation in particular it looks in many places that he is ‘marking’ steps and not dancing full out. It again is very old school style and standards for the men. That is what I mean that he looks sloppy and unpolished in comparison. To both Baryshnikov and Bujones. It is not what is ‘in fashion’. It is how technique has progressed and what the standard was becoming, especially for the men in the late 1970’s to today. It is not a criticism of Godunov. That is the style he was trained in. But when people compare him to some of his contemporaries this is what they are referring to. Ballet is based in turn out. Technique was more advanced for the women in the 1960’s and the men started to be held to the same standard. But just because I don’t see what you might see in his performance doesn’t mean that I dont have an actual legitimate reason why I don’t. I think Godunov is a very elegant male dancer, a true danseur Nobel. But my preference for other dancers is based on my knowledge and understanding of ballet technique through 8 years of trying, a professional career, and now taught several students that have gone on to their own career. My own son is about to embark on his own career as a professional dancer. 

[volcanohunter]

I mentioned hair because Godunov's Russian biographers seem to be obsessed with it. As I watched I began to suspect that Godunov's preferred hairstyle may have been an attempt to disguise the fact that he danced with his head thrust forward. Ballet dancers tend to have almost no curve in their cervical spine (neck). This isn't normal; in profile it's normal to have a lordotic (inward) curve, but ballet training tends to elongate the spine and flatten out these curves. (The first time I had my spine x-rayed, my doctor was surprised that I had almost no lumbar curve, which was no doubt a consequence of how I had been trained to position my pelvis - tail bone pointing straight down.) Watch professional dancers in class, and you'll see a lot of very straight necks, but not, I think, on Godunov.

 

In the overhead lifts Van Hamel gave a very strong push off the floor each time, which can be much more important in helping a partner lift his ballerina than her size.

 

This version of the male variation comes from the production by Konstantin Sergeyev for the Kirov. (Nureyev's version is also derived from it, but, as usual, he added lots and lots of steps to it.) In the variation, Godunov's first diagonal is a bit behind the music, although the tempo in this production was faster than what was or is typical at the Kirov/Mariinsky.

 

During the second diagonal, he doesn't maintain his turnout, which is more likely to happen when dancers move backwards. Moving in a direction you can't see is simply less comfortable. The ending position of the diagonal doesn't look like a definitive finish; it lacks clarity, because he moves too quickly onto the next steps. 

 

During the third diagonal the positions of the arms are not great. They look "marked," as Fraildove wrote, and the movement looks incomplete, probably because he was preoccupied with the turns

 

On the fourth diagonal, which is very difficult, the tempo was obviously a challenge, and very soon he was doing the jumps turned in. (Feet facing forward and backside sticking out is not what ballet likes to show an audience, and diagonals are very unforgiving in this regard.) The final pirouette demonstrates Fraildove's point about an indifferent position, while the heel of the supporting foot is barely off the ground. 

 

(It bears pointing out that Gordeyev and Bogatyrev, Godunov's contemporaries at the Bolshoi, were already turning on a true demi-pointe, if not quite the three-quarter pointe that is standard today. Obviously Baryshnikov had also learned to turn on demi-pointe. Soviet ballet had moved on from the time of Nureyev's defection in 1961, when he saw Erik Bruhn's three-quarter pointe and decided that he had to master it.)

 

Godunov's eyeline was low throughout the variation; he seemed to be looking more at the conductor than out into the auditorium. There is strangely little twist in the torso or épaulement in the shoulders, even though these are built into the choreography. I don't see much in the way of flow; it doesn't look effortless.

 

I wouldn't describe the applause as thunderous, and although I can't be certain because the sound quality is very poor, I didn't hear a lot of bravos. New York audiences are a vocal bunch, and the Met can get really loud.

 

The talk show host Dick Cavett, introducing the segment from backstage, showed elegant carriage, by the way.

 

On the basis of the Raymonda telecast I can understand why Baryshnikov ultimately decided that Godunov was of limited usefulness to the company, because while he could partner its tall women, Baryshnikov already had tall men. Godunov was not a stellar virtuoso along the lines of Bujones. 

 

 

And Godunov's old-school Soviet style probably seemed incompatible with the choreography being created at the time, which frequently was not only "modern," but incorporated elements of actual modern dance. 

 

I dislike side-by-side comparisons, and Nureyev's version of the variation differs, with a lot more turns included, but I will include a performance by José Martinez. Although his build is different, Martinez is very tall. His strengths as a dancer were, perhaps, the opposite of Godunov's - balance and pirouettes, rather than jumps and power. Notice the beautiful carriage and elegance, the refinement, clarity and seeming effortlessness of how he executes steps, how his arms move through large, smooth arcs and the high demi-pointe when he rises onto the balls of his feet.

 

 

(This is bizarre for me. Baryshnikov, Osborne and Martinez were never even remotely my favorite dancers, but I've gained a renewed appreciation for them by revisiting videos of their dancing.)

[Meliss]

On 7/17/2024 at 2:21 PM, Fraildove said:

A few examples is Godunov’s landing with a turned in leg, his lack of fully pointing his feet through the toes, his releve that is only about 2” off the floor in pirouettes…

Thank you very much for the specifics!!! It  would be great to see it in specific places on the video and understand exactly what is wrong... 1.  landing with a turned in leg - what kind of jump is meant and the time, at least approximate? 2. lack of fully pointing his feet through the toes - is it in any particular element or is it permanent? 3. his releve that is only about 2” off the floor in pirouettes - and how high should it be?

Thanks in advance for the answer!

[Meliss]

On 7/18/2024 at 7:38 AM, volcanohunter said:

I mentioned hair because Godunov's Russian biographers seem to be obsessed with it.

What do you mean by the words "Godunov's biographers"? Journalists who endlessly reprint the same information with a million factual errors? Only one worthwhile book has been written about Godunov, but it has not yet been published. The author is his friend from his youth, journalist Tamara Bleskina.

On 7/18/2024 at 7:38 AM, volcanohunter said:

Watch professional dancers in class, and you'll see a lot of very straight necks, but not, I think, on Godunov.

Thank you for a moment of sincere laughter. 

And what's wrong with his perfectly straight neck?

On 7/18/2024 at 7:38 AM, volcanohunter said:

In the overhead lifts Van Hamel gave a very strong push off the floor each time, which can be much more important in helping a partner lift his ballerina than her size.

If she's a good partner, it doesn't mean that he couldn't do it without her help.

[Meliss]

On 7/18/2024 at 7:38 AM, volcanohunter said:

In the variation, Godunov's first diagonal is a bit behind the music, although the tempo in this production was faster than what was or is typical at the Kirov/Mariinsky.

 

Oh yes, I suppose Godunov is at least 1 nanosecond behind the music here. 

On 7/18/2024 at 7:38 AM, volcanohunter said:

although the tempo in this production was faster than what was or is typical at the Kirov/Mariinsky.

Do you mean the tempo of the music or what? How can the tempo of the production differ from the tempo of the music?

On 7/18/2024 at 7:38 AM, volcanohunter said:

During the second diagonal, he doesn't maintain his turnout,

Can you specify the time when this happens? I don't really understand what you mean. If he hadn't been maintaining the turn, he would have fallen, no?

On 7/18/2024 at 7:38 AM, volcanohunter said:

 The ending position of the diagonal doesn't look like a definitive finish; it lacks clarity, because he moves too quickly onto the next steps. 

 

He couldn't pause there because he was following the music. Nureyev also continued right after this place.

On 7/18/2024 at 7:38 AM, volcanohunter said:

During the third diagonal the positions of the arms are not great.

And who has completed ones? Who do you recommend to look at for comparison?

On 7/18/2024 at 7:38 AM, volcanohunter said:

very soon he was doing the jumps turned in. (Feet facing forward and backside sticking out

I looked at it in slow motion and didn't see anything like that. What should I do to see this?

On 7/18/2024 at 7:38 AM, volcanohunter said:

The final pirouette demonstrates Fraildove's point about an indifferent position, while the heel of the supporting foot is barely off the ground. 

Is this really considered a flaw? But why?

On 7/18/2024 at 7:38 AM, volcanohunter said:

Godunov's eyeline was low throughout the variation; he seemed to be looking more at the conductor than out into the auditorium.

Well, that's definitely not the case - I'll look for a photo now.

 

[Meliss]

On 7/18/2024 at 7:38 AM, volcanohunter said:

Godunov's eyeline was low throughout the variation

Was it?

 

[Meliss]

On 7/18/2024 at 7:38 AM, volcanohunter said:

There is strangely little twist in the torso or épaulement in the shoulders, even though these are built into the choreography.

He's actually a knight, not a doorway boy, and that's why he moves with dignity.

On 7/18/2024 at 7:38 AM, volcanohunter said:

I don't see much in the way of flow;

I do and fully agree with the following statement:

On 7/17/2024 at 2:21 PM, Fraildove said:

I think Godunov is a very elegant male dancer, a true danseur Nobel.

 

[Meliss]

On 7/18/2024 at 7:38 AM, volcanohunter said:

it doesn't look effortless.

Unfortunately, it is as difficult to refute this as to prove.

On 7/18/2024 at 7:38 AM, volcanohunter said:

I wouldn't describe the applause as thunderous

Would you describe it as rare pops?)

On 7/18/2024 at 7:38 AM, volcanohunter said:

On the basis of the Raymonda telecast I can understand why Baryshnikov ultimately decided that Godunov was of limited usefulness to the company, because while he could partner its tall women, Baryshnikov already had tall men. Godunov was not a stellar virtuoso along the lines of Bujones. 

In your opinion, Lucia Chase, who devoted her whole life to ballet and 40 years to the management of ABT, could not distinguish a world-class ballet star from an average dancer? 

On 7/18/2024 at 7:38 AM, volcanohunter said:

And Godunov's old-school Soviet style probably seemed incompatible with the choreography being created at the time, which frequently was not only "modern," but incorporated elements of actual modern dance. 

Godunov's style had nothing to do with any outdated styles. Alexander danced modern ballets beautifully - starting with "Carmen" staged by Alberto Alonso and ending with ballets by Alvin Ailey, Jose Lemon, Peter Anastos and others. He could dance anything. Balanchine, too, despite the threat of tendinitis. As for his dismissal from the ABT, I fully share the opinion of Juris Kapralis, who knew both Godunov and Baryshnikov very well, since he taught them classical dance at the Riga Choreographic School for several years. Here are his words: "When one becomes the director of the American Ballet Theater, and the other, as in childhood, dances your parts in line with you with no less success.... Well, anything can happen. - But there is a reason? "I think creative envy of Sasha's opportunities and height played a role there." 

Edited July 28 by Meliss

[Meliss]

On 7/18/2024 at 7:38 AM, volcanohunter said:

I will include a performance by José Martinez.

Martinez is not bad, but he dances much slower and heavier than Godunov. In addition, Godunov makes excellent double cabrioles, and Martinez - barely. And at the finish, Godunov had a pirouette, and Martinez had some kind of parody of a pirouette.