BW

I've actually read that book and I found it very encouraging to to either the older dancer or the returning dancer - of which I am, sadly, neither! It did get me excited about the ideaof ballet as a wonderful form of exercise and it made me think about doing it...but, alas, that is as far as I got.

I usually subscribe to a series in the Winter season to NYCB and to a series within ABT's Spring season at the Met. It's pretty expensive but I count it as part what makes life worth living... Plus, we really don't do much else!

In my readings on this board, I would say that generally speaking it appears that most posters seem to look down a bit on story ballets as though they are for "the masses"... Are they considered too "old hat"...just so much pablum for the unsophisticated? I realize there's quite a contingent who post here that are great fans of NYCB and that they generally do not stage story ballets... Being a New Yorker, my experience is mostly with NYCB and ABT - one does tend to think of ABT as being the one who does Le Corsaire and The Merry Widow, etc... However, I have had the pleasure of seeing The Bolshoi...and I have to admit that I really like ballets with stories! Perhaps it is a help for the uninitiated to have a plot to follow... and yet, I also enjoy Symphony in C and a bunch of others who have no story at all... Is it all just a matter of taste?

I think I prefer the couch ending better!! Oops, I mean "sofa"! [ March 21, 2002, 02:05 PM: Message edited by: BW ]

Thanks liebs, guess I'd forgotten some of the in between stuff. Perhaps my sources, other than the book, are those who'd take up "the cause" and be ready to carry on the debate while holding Suzanne Farrel's banner high... If the falling out was some sort of personal thing, I don't need to know...but if, on the other hand, it was related to the direction of NYCB after first Balanchine's and then Robbin's death, that would be interesting to hear about.

All very interesting posts - thank you Blizzardqueen for starting it off! I read her autobiography this fall and really enjoyed it...only wish I'd had the good fortune to see her dance in real life. Can someone tell me why it was that when she came back to NYCB and Balanchine was dying that she eventually split off? Is it true that at one point she was a real possibility for being the head of NYCB? I think I've asked this one before but I don't think anyone answered.

Oddly enough, this very topic came up in my world this morning, as someone I know has just choreographed a series of pieces to Mahalia Jackson's singing. All of it is gospel music...one is the Lord's Prayer set to music... Then I started looking around this site and voila! I think Jeff hit the nail on the head when he said: "The problem begins when a producing organization's social mission so completely dominates its artistic one that technique and professionalism. Then, you wind up with preaching that only the choir can appreciate." To me the arts offer us an opportunity to transcend our own reality - and for me, I guess I'd have to say that's spiritual.

Glad I finally got around to reading this topic all the way through. Seems to me, that there are two kinds of "fitness" being described in this thread: the physical and the intellectual. I am the mother of a young ballet dancer. As luck would have it she likes to read...but with the level of school work - much of it a bunch of time wasting busy work - and the number of ballet classes(and the time it takes to commute to and from them!) there is not enough time left over to do much extra! It's more than annoying - it's maddening. As a parent, one wants to offer their children as much of the world as one can...and I don't mean material things like cell phones, etc. We are fortunate to live right outside NYC, so we can try to take advantage of all that it offers...but it is hard to fit it in. My daughter is young...and I can only imagine how much more difficult it will become as she gets older UNLESS there is a better way of combining education and her desire for following the path towards a professional ballet career is found or beaten out through the "woods"! I applaud the colleges and universities that have developed programs which allow professional ballet dancers, and others like them, the opportunity to continue their studies. But we need more!! As far as I know in NYC, the only one left is at Fordham - all hale the wisdom of the Jesuits In many ways it's our educational system that needs a total overhaul - and not just for dancers! The dearth of real teaching and learning is vast. I think the lack of "fitness" in the intellectual realm is epidemic - and not just in ballet dancers! By the way, I'd like to say that I, too, often find myself at a loss in certain areas such as Quantum Mechanics!

Glad I finally got around to reading this topic all the way through. Seems to me, that there are two kinds of "fitness" being described in this thread: the physical and the intellectual. I am the mother of a young ballet dancer. As luck would have it she likes to read...but with the level of school work - much of it a bunch of time wasting busy work - and the number of ballet classes(and the time it takes to commute to and from them!) there is not enough time left over to do much extra! It's more than annoying - it's maddening. As a parent, one wants to offer their children as much of the world as one can...and I don't mean material things like cell phones, etc. We are fortunate to live right outside NYC, so we can try to take advantage of all that it offers...but it is hard to fit it in. My daughter is young...and I can only imagine how much more difficult it will become as she gets older UNLESS there is a better way of combining education and her desire for following the path towards a professional ballet career is found or beaten out through the "woods"! I applaud the colleges and universities that have developed programs which allow professional ballet dancers, and others like them, the opportunity to continue their studies. But we need more!! As far as I know in NYC, the only one left is at Fordham - all hale the wisdom of the Jesuits In many ways it's our educational system that needs a total overhaul - and not just for dancers! The dearth of real teaching and learning is vast. I think the lack of "fitness" in the intellectual realm is epidemic - and not just in ballet dancers! By the way, I'd like to say that I, too, often find myself at a loss in certain areas such as Quantum Mechanics!

In this April's issue of Dance Magazine there's a nice article about Septime Webre's "user -friendly approach to directing the Washington Ballet". It reminded me of a number of discussions that have gone on in these cyber halls about encouraging the "unlearned" to attend dance programs, ballet in particular. This article makes it seem as though Mr. Webre's learned how to do it and do it well. I'm very impressed at his energy and creativity - in the way the article describes his approach to running the company and making it a "vital part of D.C. culture". I guess it's time to plan a trip down Washington way.

Actually, Alexandra this last post of yours really did help me understand it even better. I think that I probably would like to read more about it...kind of takes me back to my Art history class days. Many thanks!

I really appreciate both of your replies to my question...and I think I'm getting a better understanding of what Formalism means as compared to Expressionism or "theatricalism". I now see that Leigh, you are saying that within the classical story ballets there is "formalism"...for example the wilis in Giselle... But are you disagreeing with that Alexandra, for you say that in formalism the patterns and structure have to be THE most important aspect of the dance? Or am I splitting ballet hairs here? Actually, this has been very instructive to me. I've never really had an understanding of Balachine's revolutionary approach and probably still don't but I'm starting to "get it" a bit. I have never seen Eifman and although I know they're at City Center I probably just can't make it for a variety of reasons...although it would be interesting to go and then have a discussion about the expressionistic style vs. a more "conventional" formalist style... Perhaps there is an example of the same ballet being performed in both ways by two different companies? I know many people were upset by Sylvie G.'s Giselle last year. {I really liked it and so did my daughter and her friend.} Did it have a more Expressionist bent to it than a Formalistic one? And yet, the wilis were still very formalistic weren't they? Uh oh, now I'm really getting lost! I have seen Afternoon of a Faun - the recent version with Damian W. and Margaret Tracey...I can definitely see that as expressionistic... Can you elaborate a tiny bit more?

Oops, I must have missed the "in Paris" part! Have a wonderful time Calliope!

Earlier, in a thread about the upcoming performances by the students of the POB, Estelle said she was surprised that they were performing anything by Bejart because he was not especially well liked in this country. Being ignorant on the subject , I asked why that was thought to be so. I got several replies and Leigh's led me to the discussion here as to who is thought of as the greatest (living?) choreographer.... Leigh you said, in part: "...And the beliefs that held sway were formalism (a belief that there a great part of the meaning of something lies in how it is made, that the form is the content) and modernism (much more complicated to explain simply because it seems to mean slightly different things in different disciplines - for the sake of this post, one of the most important aspects of it is the idea that a dance needs no other context than itself; "It means what you see.") At the same time as American dance defined itself this way, European dance took off in a different direction, emphasizing theatrical content and narrative. (I'm not saying that Balanchine had no theatrical content nor narrative, but his priorities about what makes a dance are far more similar to Cunningham's than Béjart's)" Hmm, maybe I'll really like Bejart's work. I do recall, after having read the other posts on that POB thread that Suzanne Farrell danced with his company while she was effectively banished from NYCB... Would you say that ABT's approach is generally less grounded in "formalism" and more "theatrical"? Does a ballet have to be plotless to be considered to be in the "formalist" camp? I am trying to understand what you are all writing about and, since I've never studied dance, I am also trying to get down the vocabulary. Canst thou explain a bit more to the uninitiated? [ March 11, 2002, 05:57 PM: Message edited by: BW ]

After looking around, I finally found this posted on the orginal topic. When I last looked at either the French Institute's website or John Jay College's - neither had it listed, as of yet. Guess you'll just have to use that old fashioned invention of the telephone! (When will the search button come back??!) 'Paris Opera Ballet School' Special New York Appearance Wed. May 22 lecture, film & demonstration by Claude bessy with her students: FRENCH INSTITUTE ALLIANCE FRANCAISE, 55 East 59th Street; for tickets call 212 355 6160 $15 adults; $10 students/members Thur. May 23 & Fri. May 24 performances, John Jay College Theater, 899 Tenth Avenue 212 556 6770 $25 adults; $15 students. program features more than 25 of the school's best performers in 'DESSIN POUR 6' (John Taras); excerpt from M POUR B (Maurice Bejart); excerpt from SEPT DANXES GRECQUES (Maurice Bejart); COPPELIA Act II (Arthur Saint-Leon) and PECHES DE JEUNESSE (Jean Guillaume Bart). See you there! [ March 11, 2002, 03:40 PM: Message edited by: BW ]

Alexandra, thank you so much for the info. you posted. Estelle, I basically know "zip" about Bejart. Can you please tell me why he is so unpopular in the U.S.? [ March 06, 2002, 03:16 PM: Message edited by: BW ]

Wonderful - perfect timing! Didn't I ask a question about this ballet way back when? My daughter's going to dance in it in about two weeks - in an excerpt that is. The only version I have seen is The Bolshoi's - on video tape. I like the film but it's very dark and hard to really see very well.

Ugh, can you imagine seeing the golden arches emblazened across the curtains at The NY State Theater? Of one of ABT's prima ballerinas turning out just a tiny bit more so as to show the audience the corporation's logo on the sole of her pointe shoe?! Yuck. All joking aside the article is an interesting one... Does a Japanese company still own Radio City Music Hall? They did at one time didn't they? or was it just all the buildings around Rockefeller Center? Not that I'm against foreign investment but Mr. Costello does have a point about national identity. However the part of the article that really caught my eye was at the very end: [ February 24, 2002: Message edited by: BW ]

This topic seems to be on everyone's "lips" these days. As Katharine wrote: So many feel this to be true. But as Alexandra added: tis the season of the markateer - sadly, I suppose it comes down to $$$...without the revenues there would be no company yet with those layers of bureaucrats to feed and clothe, it's beginning to seem as if the companies might need new business plans. Easy for me to say, I know.

Where's Dick Button when we need him? Or President Clinton...or better yet, Dick Cheney our current VP?

When I heard this on NPR I almost drove off the road. Irina S. just did not skate well last night at all. These protests make me feel both annoyed and sad at the same time! Apparently there is some feeling that this latest move from the Russians is a face saving one...as they are no longer the mightiest in the winter games. [ February 22, 2002: Message edited by: BW ]

Hooray for Sarah Hughes! I've always found her refreshing - I think it's the pure enjoyment she always shows on her face while skating. I am sad for Michelle Kwan - the long awaited minutes on the ice were just not hers last night. She, remains, however one of the best and certainly most poised.

Although I'm not capable of dancing either, I can sure tell you which ballet I'd rather watch! Bring on the red pointe shoes and the motorcycle!

This has been an interesting discussion to read. I did see the performances but I have not seen nor heard all of the coverage afterwards. Would someone tell me from what countries the other four judges come from? Were they all ex-Eastern bloc pals? I think that the idea of throwing out the "bribed" votes would have been a good idea - I guess "we" justs needed a quick fix.

Perhaps a big time wrestling opera? Yes, Saturday night live has some serious grist for their mill. The emotional tide will run high...is there a full moon out tonight? Maybe Dick Cheney will even come out of his undisclosed location for it.