scherzo

Started reading this thread at the wrong end and thought, "Surely Cozette is not reaching 65?"

I completely share your opinion about Thibault and Ould-Braham (no possible comparison with Cozette in any way) who are true stars actually, most appreciated by the audience.

Interesting that Thibault and Ould-Braham appear to be audience favourites and (from what I've read) more talented. None of the Paris Opera Ballet followers seems terribly enthusiastic about Cozette's promotion but also about POB's management - do you think Lefevre etc know about/take into account audience's opinions? Should they?

Me too!! Thankfully it is there now. However I can't seem to find these DVDs in Region 2 and I don't have a multi-region player.

William Tuckett's ballet Seven Deadly Sins had its world premiere last Thursday at the Royal Opera House, Covent Garden. In the review that I read today the reviewer suggested that it might work better 'on a more intimate stage'. What makes a ballet better suited to smaller spaces? Initially I thought it was simply the number of dancers in it, but then Ashton's Symphonic Variations has only six dancers. I don't think I've ever read of a ballet needing a bigger stage - ballets are always 'swamped' etc by space. Any thoughts?

I find repetition en masse generally more exciting than individuals repeating the same step (like the fouettes). I like kicklines because having the movements synchronised makes the overall impact more powerful and exhilarating. I like the entrance of the Shades partly because I like arabesques and also because it gives a nicely fantastical, never-ending feeling - you almost can't believe your eyes.

(and what's with those sticky-out skirts?)

You mean the tutus? That's what ballerinas always wore in 1877, which is when La Bayadère was choreographed.

Sorry, my comment was poorly phrased (irony is rather difficult to put across on the Internet!). I was commenting on the slightly odd nature of discussing 'in-authenticity' in ballet (i.e. waltzing Indian temple dancers) when, as paraphrased from an old POB Bayadere programme, a tutu is introduced and already we are at one remove from reality.

Would it be true to say that classical tutu ballets were more concerned with enchainements and therefore made-to-measure music like Minkus perfectly suits the style? It has clear rhythm so melody is not so important. Then when narrative choreographers like Ashton and Cranko began to create, they were more concerned with the shape of a musical phrase to show an emotion or action.

I know this is an old topic but I was thinking about this just today (there ARE threads on everything here!) - what really makes good ballet music? OK, maybe it doesn't need to be 'great' music.

Say you wanted to commission a score for a ballet you were choreographing: what would you prefer?

• Rhythm, of course, but then most music has regular rhythm of some kind.
  Instrumentation? I remember reading online once that a piece (I think it was Debussy's Arabesques) was too 'thin' for dance, which implies that a choreographer reacts to different layers within music that solo piano music may not provide.
  A melody, presumably, but then look at Pierrot Lunaire.
  Tonal or atonal?
  etc
  

I don't mind Minkus, Pugni et al except for the fact that Indian spectres dancing to Viennese-style waltzes is a rather incongruous sight. Yes, there was something wrong with that sentence (and what's with those sticky-out skirts?) but still.

I think that taking existing music and choreographing to it is fine as long as you treat it well (e.g. no horrible arrangements, cuts etc). But then I came across some music the other way round, in ballet first and then realised it was actual music.

PS Out of interest, has a choreograher ever thought a piece would be good, and then tried to think of what to do with it and changed their mind? What makes scores 'inappropriate'?

I've been watching footage of Raisa Struchova, and she has the most amazingly fast, skimming bourees.

I'm not going to go into the valleys but feel free to chime in ...

*chime* Valleys may be caused by lack of respect for 'company heritage'?

Peaks could simply be luck of the draw? Well, schooling as well, but for example the Bolshoi's Plisetskaya, Ulanova, Maximova and Vasiliev era almost seems too good to be true - a 'bumper crop', if you will.

Creative genius, or at least driving force, must be a factor, like Nureyev for the POB, Ashton for the RB and now Ratmansky for the Bolshoi... Dedication and commitment.

Hmmm.... I may yet be persuaded, I guess. (It wasn't so much the music as its method of composition that I objected to....)

Not quite sure what you mean by that. If the music persuades, why concern yourself with the process behind it?

I can't remember which piece it was, but it was like, 'Here are some notes and rhythms for each player, play them as fast or slow as you like and repeat until you hear the drum hit'. I didn't really like the piece anyway, but this kind of composition annoyed me, I suppose because it's not what I would conventionally describe as 'musical' composition. Sorry, I'm still at the stage (or perhaps will always be) where I cling to music pre-Berg/Schoenberg, but I hope to widen my horizons if possible! I have yet to be persuaded by 'contemporary' music as opposed to, say, the Brahms violin sonatas (yes, schmaltzy but beautiful) that I'm listening to at the moment.

(By the way, I'm interested to know some examples of 20th century conservative tripe!)

It probably will shock a lot of people, but Jeffrey Kahane, the music director of the Colorado Symphony, thinks that some day Lutoslawski will be considered a truly great composer.

And so he is!

Hmmm.... I may yet be persuaded, I guess. (It wasn't so much the music as its method of composition that I objected to....)

If it was Vinogradov's production, it was performed quite recently by (I think) the St. Petersburg Mussorgsky State Academic Ballet Theatre. I think that it won some Russian arts awards as well, including for its lead Oksana Kucheruk.

I know I'm not technically JMcN but I'd like to quickly add my thoughts on Bintley if I may. Of his story ballets I have seen Hobson's Choice. I suppose it is not an 'ambitious' ballet (which is one of the criticisms of his work) but that is part of its appeal: it has great warmth, a good sense of comedy and a good balance between mime and pure dance which sustains the audience's interest (which, for example, Macmillan did not always achieve). Above all, Bintley takes care creating his characters and each has clear personality, dramatically and choreographically, thanks to his inventive use of steps - so we care about what happens to them.

Their intelligence, which is a distinction between 'amazing' dancers and 'great' dancers.

I don't mind slightly winged feet (assuming I do know what they are) but when the foot is practically flexed it is really horrible.

This is the peeve that really makes me mad, and it rolls several of the peeve-ish issues into one. It's when in the first set of balances in the Rose Adagio the ballerina tries to do a 'Margot Fonteyn' and misses out the fourth prince. This is annoying for so many reasons:

• It ignores court etiquette and offends the prince - OK, a small point but hey
  
• It almost never works and looks uncomfortably wobbly
  
• It never looks spontaneous, and 'setting up' the balance completely defies the point of the Fonteyn story, whether true or not
  
• It doesn't fit the music, and so the opening out into arabesque doesn't come in the right place, or the last prince is given an embarrassingly short once-over by Aurora before she opens into arabesque
  

Wow, Obraztsova and Somova are only just second soloists?? The Mariinsky has interesting casting policies, giving coryphees principal roles etc.

How much is different from the Vienna production? Does Letestu perform Nureyev's Odile variation (as performed by Fonteyn on the 1966 film)? And is the wonderful S-shape of swans in Act IV still there as well? I'm seriously tempted to buy this DVD...

I think I remember reading that she was constantly second-cast after Natalia Dudinskaya, which may be why she has little exposure elsewhere. It's a pity: from all of the photos in the linked gallery she must have been a very dramatic, charismatic dancer.

I think that modern music is actually growing LESS esoteric and could be a rich quarry for dance.

I wish we'd stop asking what art is, how to make it new or how to be relevant. I wish we'd start asking what it is we have to say and how we can best say it.

I didn't mean to imply that it should become 'new', (especially not for the sake of it). And as for being relevant: it kind of defeats the point of ballet, I mean I can't quite see how the Sleeping Beauty fairy tale was very 'relevant' in the 1890s. Perhaps ballet succeeded because of its 'irrelevance'...

I guess the thread title is misleading because I don't necessarily think ballet needs to 'move on', though I was interested to know others' opinions. I suppose I was wondering (amongst other things) whether there is anything more than what's gone before, i.e. will ballet in x years' time look pretty much the same?

Sorry, this post is like a long series of questions, but bear with me!

How can ballet develop? Preservation of the classical idiom is important, but then how can anything really new be done with pre-existing steps? Has all the innovation that could be done already been done, while staying within the boundaries of 'ballet' - but then, what is ballet really? Anything in pointe shoes?

Do we need anything new to happen? Will a full-length classical ballet a la 'Sleeping Beauty' help advance the art?

And how can new ballets keep up with increasingly esoteric modern music - is looking to the past the answer?

Has real 'artistry' in ballet been lost to technique, and how do we get it back and regain the fire of the 'olden days'? Should we just be content with our videos and see where ballet goes from here?

Does ballet even need to 'move on'?

...

(Btw, I am curious to know what the Sylph's mime in this scene means?)

...

There words that go with the Sylph’s death scene have changed quite a bit over the years according to a recent publication – more recently separated into three lines, rather than two that seems to have been an earlier practice. However, what they express has remained basically unchanged over the years. Currently, the Sylph's lines are suggested to be: “You should not have done that” – “I could not help it” – “I have loved you more than anything on earth”.

Thankyou very much. The music in this scene (esp. the cello) is so beautiful, and the mime makes perfect sense now.

Violente is for "energy". And her variation is certainly energetic!

I've heard (BUT I'M NOT SURE) that Violente also is authority or power (energy) since her pointing of the fingers should symbolize electricity. ´

Also the variation (the music) of the second fairy in the florestan pas de deux.

Sorry if this has already been mentioned (I'm tired): I have an idea that the pointing may also symbolise curiosity...

I don't really know about this, but dancing (in my head :rolleyes:) seems to me to be more about the melody and its line/phrasing than certain instruments.

That said.... I like the idea of the harp (in Dying Swan) as rippling bourees. And yes, definitely the cello as a pliant, gorgeous upper body.

Is there a full-length Swan Lake with Asylmuratova?

Not that I know of: there's a Sleeping Beauty though, with Zaklinsky. (I remember one time on the Internet I saw the tag: 'Swan Lake', Kirov Ballet, Asylmuratova, but it was the Makhalina one. That's just cruel) And of course Le Corsaire with AA, FR, KZ and the lovely Yelena Pankova.

From the Asylmuratova interview:

This phenomenon of the young stars is also worrying. Dancers of twenty are behaving like big stars, thinking they can do everything already. That’s not the right mentality. Not everybody is able to handle this star status. It’s only the most intelligent ones who can get away with it.

Young stars have been around for years (obvious example: the baby ballerinas, also Fonteyn and Markova): is it that their numbers have now increased, or were there always so many and they mostly burned out and were forgotten over the years?

And I decided to go in a quiet way. No goodbye, no grand gala or anything – I didn’t want that.

Sure, I hate bad fouettes, but isn't it a case of practice makes perfect? (No, really, I'm asking, not being sarcastic: can some people simply not do them?)

manuel legris.

le dernier cri

je ne sais plus

manuel legris

Sorry estelle, I had a little "poetic" fit there.... without having enough French to poetize. He's the bomb.

He is a bit of a bomb isn't he! Though I must say, POB scores rather highly in the overall department (men and women).