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What could make people dislike her? Them feeling that she's hogging attention that they think belongs to someone more deserving.

Racism has nothing to do with it then?

I'm referring to Macaulay's adoration of Sara Mearns and the fact that Mearns does not have anything like a classic Balanchine body, as well as Tapfan's phrasing "Try telling that to Abrera and Lane fans," of which I'm one.

I think that people's perceptions are highly subjective, and when one person is making the final decision of (a) whom to promote or (b) whom to praise, that subjectivity is something that cannot be ignored.

Subjectivity is always a factor, but it's one that's difficult to measure, and to assume that it worked against dancers of East Asian heritage at NYCB is effectively to accuse the powers that be there of racism, a charge that only people privy to the decision-making process there are qualified to make.

Sure, Macaulay (along with everyone else) loves Sarah Mearns, but he also recognizes and talks about the Balanchinean ideal. That ideal isn't arbitrary, it relates to many of the ballets Balanchine made, and with how he wanted them danced. It's not subjective, which is what I was saying to Tapfan.

That was my point as well, all things being equal, subjectivity still comes in to play more times than not. Even at sainted NYCB.

You can't know there was subjectivity involved if you don't even know what the objective factors were.

Try telling that to Alastair Macaulay.

What are you referring to?

Actually, I've NEVER stated that I thought people who dislike Copeland or her PR tactics are racist. Not once. Misguided, culturally myopic, defensive and over-the-top, yes. Racist, no.

Glad to hear that qualification, but I'm not sure what else you think would make people out and out hate her. And how you know they do?

Well do you disagree that different balletomanes can view the same dancer and totally disagree on her worth as a dancer?

That's my point.

My point is that, other factors being equal - and you don't know all the other factors, like who else was available and what qualities they had - Balanchine training and a classic Balanchine body are highly important factors in getting hired at NYCB.

the same people who are quick to hold up Virginia Johnson as a great talent and a font of wisdom on many things concerning ballet, conveniently ignore the fact that she has said repeatedly that she thinks Misty deserves to be promoted to principle based on her ability NOT her color. Why is this woman who is thought to be so wise about other things in ballet, so wrong about Misty?

Since you haven't seen Copeland dance, what makes you qualified to agree that she deserve promotion? Given how quick people like yourself are to attribute "hatred" and racism to people who don't think she deserves it, what are the chances that people in the ballet world would speak up and disagree? (When does anyone in the ballet world publicly criticize a dancer anyhow?) Johnson isn't the only person with an opinion, and there are people here who see ABT regularly, who have quite possibly seen Copeland more that Johnson has, who disagree.

Finally, if Stella or Sarah were so vastly superior in every way to Copeland as some folks continually maintain, none of Copeland's relentless self-promotion could possibly hold them back because the cream always rises.

Try telling that to Abrera and Lane fans.

They must be considering the fact that they have on occasion, hired dancers that weren't trained in the method. Violetta Verdy and Sofiane Sylvie come to mind.

Sofiane is pretty thick. No way her body is a Balanchine body.

There have been and continue to be plenty of exceptions - dancers with other virtues. But those two things are highly desirable attributes, not incidental factors, in who dances at NYCB. They aren't "subjective" tastes.

Meritocracy in ballet is largely subjective. That something that's been discussed at length on this very forum. When I asked why NYC Ballet didn't have more dancers of East Asian descent when many other major companies did, nobody dared suggest that there were no qualified east Asian dancers available. Instead they pointed to other factors like lack of Balanchine-specific training, or things like height and a company's specific needs at the time. In other words, at the elite level, the smallest things that have nothing to do with ability or race or ethnicity, can land you in or out off a company.

Balanchine training and a classic Balanchine ballerina body are subjective qualifications for New York City Ballet? Wow.

I understand the frustration that comes from a rush to make an event even more important than it is by calling it a "first,"

I'm not sure what you mean by "frustration." Frustration is not what people generally experience when they find someone hasn't told the truth. It's just possible that Copeland really believed she was the first African-American woman to make it out of ABT's corps de ballet when she told an LA journalist that she was, but that requires us to believe she never even asked.

The Guggenheim has just posted all three Works and Process Programs from Sunday and Monday to YouTube. Best of all: no commercials!

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJ08rQmWB63RWbFoFHRPv5zs1OdSTX7hL&utm_source=hootsuite&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=wp

Thank you, California! And rkoretzky .

I'm fine with arts organizations sharing their lists and sending me stuff.

I am too, but I'm turned off when the writing's bad. Ellen Bar at NYCB is a lot better than Kristin Sloan used to be, and I admire her for other things, but she could really use a professional copywriter (I know, she probably isn't given the money for one). I've received mailers for Kennedy Center modern dance programs with prose so unbelievably awful I actually wrote a line by line critique of the stuff and almost sent it. Not only was it sometimes ungrammatical, in that you knew what the writer meant but he or she had actually said something else, but it was completely purple. I did wonder though, if it was purple on purpose - if the writer felt he needed to be that gaudy to compete with all the loud, gaudy ad copy we see. Or had his own standards been lowered by reading that stuff?

I also thought it was interesting that the tribute to Misty in Time was written by a gymnast, Nadia Comaneci, rather than a dancer. Actually, having her pose without tights with bulging leg muscles exposed sort of fits in her case. She has repeatedly stated that her mission, in part, was to fight against the typical ballet body and the assumption that only women with certain types of bodies can be successful ballet dancers. The Time photo is an extension of that sentiment.

Good point.

I don't care much for the selected photo. Masculine look, ugly pose and (sigh) no tights. It just doesn't convey classical ballet. Had Time shown Misty in full Odette costume, it would have pulled a greater punch and been a more beautiful look.

I agree. Posing her in Swan Lake dress would have highlighted her greatest achievement, which is not to have become a well-known dance athlete, so to speak, but to have earned leading roles in the classical (heretofore almost exclusively white) repertoire.

But dramatically it was difficult to tell why the character goes from family man and party goer to existential swimmer – what pushes or pulls him into his man on the run life.

In the story, which I love, he's not on the run, although by the time he finishes his journey he's troubled and humiliated, and the story has taken a fantastical turn, with the friends he encounters on his trip speaking of dark events he seems to have repressed, and time having slipped from the happy present to some dark future reality he doesn't recognize. But he embarks on his swim "across the county" in an exuberant mood.

The day was beautiful and it seemed to him that a long swim might enlarge and celebrate its beauty.

Thanks for the reports. It's hard to imagine a more surprising choice for composer than Tom Waits - not exactly a chronicler of upper-middle class suburban life in the 50's - but that makes this all the more intriguing. ETA: I see now that he wasn't the main composer. Does anyone know, is his music for the piece new?

Craig Hall has danced Apollo at NYCB as part of Dancers' Choice program about 2 years ago.

Thanks. Did you see it?

Bet you that Russell Janzen will be second cast of Apollo with a tall girl cast of muses. Hope my prediction is correct. Janzen seems perfect for the role.

What about Catazaro? Sooner or later, wouldn't you think? And I've always wanted to see Craig Hall in the role, but I guess that doesn't seem likely.

A blanket recommendation to see the company without checking what rep they're bringing for someone who wants to see more of the same -- ie, "Swan Lake" isn't' especially helpful.

Right, which is perhaps why no one's made such a recommendation. What I actually said was that some Copeland fans will likely want to see more African-American dancers (that's what they say, after all, and it's what one would expect), and Dance Theatre of Harlem has them.

The one often understandably follows the other:

"Cult of personality" is one way of putting it. Being taken by someone's story is another.

It was probably not a good idea to look at the border guard like it was a weird question when he seemed surprised that I would see the same show three times, but it threw me for a loop. I guess not very many balletomanes pass through his station. I would have seen Miami City Ballet do the Balanchine program all four times in Vancouver, if I didn't have opera tickets to two casts for "Semele."

Sounds perfectly normal to me.

For people who are happy to see a woman of color lead a ballet because who they see reflects them, their families, and their community, then the suggestion to see DTH makes logical sense. For people who are happy to see a woman of color triumph in an overwhelmingly white art form in an overwhelmingly white company, not so much.

People whose interest in Copeland begins and ends with that long delayed “triumph” won’t be going back to the ballet anyhow. But some of the people who first went to ballet because of Copeland, and found they loved it, will be especially – not exclusively - interested in DTH.

For someone who came to see Copeland dance and fell in love with the classical ballet -- not neoclassical or contemporary ballet -- and wants to see more of it, why would you tell them to go see a Dove/Byrd/Garland triple bill like DTH is bringing to Ravenna? It's like a Korean person whose first opera was "La Traviata" asking for suggestions like it and sending them to see "Wozzeck" because it's an all-Korean cast. Wanting to advise someone on how to get a good dance education in DC means that DTH is one of a dozen companies to recommend, if they are presented there.

I didn’t see anyone recommending anything – certainly not one company to the exclusion of others. But DTH’s repertoire includes the Act III pas de deux of Swan Lake, Glinka pas de Trois, and Pas de Dix, plus Tchaikovsky Pas de Deux.

I think people who go to see DTH would go if Misty had never existed.

Of course. But some Copeland fans who've never seen them will likely go now. That is, if they really like ballet.

It's hard to imagine Copeland hasn't created a cult of personality - isn't having a cult of personality pretty much the definition of a celebrity? And history-making or not, would new people be flocking to the ballet unless they found her appealing?

So vipa asks the right question. Is there evidence yet - can there be evidence yet - that her new fans will stick around, will buy tickets for performances she's not in? I'm not in a major city where I can follow a major company week in and week out. I'm genuinely asking - are people seeing more African-Americans in the theater? (Granted, not all of her new fans are African-American).

As far as DTH not being a major company. That is the truth but neither is the Washington Ballet yet ticket prices soared for Copeland's performances.

And then there were the $125 signed posters, sold out by Saturday afternoon. I wonder how many of them there were. I'm sure the company can use a little extra cash.

Everywhere was fun to watch but became monotonous despite the fast patterns, complex lifts etc. Shaving 15 minutes off Everywhere [42 minutes] would give it focus. 3 of the 4 pieces would benefit from editing [an Oscar category in film]. Act 2 of Balanchine's Nutcracker is 41, Paquita Grand Pas 40, Rubies 19, Tchaikovsky Pas de Deux 9.

Everyone seems to agree that Everywhere needs trimming, but those are eye-opening comparisons, thank you.

Natalia, I'm not sure why you relate bare, muscular female legs to a lack of grooming, but I agree they don't flatter ballet dancers. On the one hand, they're impressive reminders of all the hard work the dancers have put in. On the other hand, "hard" doesn't fit the aesthetic.

Thanks, abatt. I presume this is done for comic effect . . . ?