EricMontreal22

I just rewatched this DVD--needed a Raymonda fix and one thing I never noticed before, is the synch between sound and visual seems off in certain parts--briefly. In Act II there's one time when Abderakman claps for his entourage and you hear the claps LATER (similarly during the sword fight the sword sounds sometimes seem off, but I *think* this may be someone in the orchestra pit helping make the sounds and being off). A few times the video "skips" a bit which seems to be a way to get it back in synch--and for the most part it appears to be perfectly in synch. Could this be somethign done when converting from PAL to NTSC? Or something else? Anyone else notice? (some of the Hungarian dances ankle clicks are off too but most are on....)

ANYWAY that detail aside--and I make it sound like it happens more often than it does--it was great to see. Lately, I've been watching and reading much more about the Bolshoi staging, so it's interesting to go back to the Kirov now. It certainly seems less grand (it's funny how even the Kirov stage which is massive looks a bit small after the Bolshoi), and Grigorovich did improve the stuff with Aberakham dramatically in his staging--but there's much I prefer about the Kirov's, and even with no White Lady missing they seem to have kept details I imagine are in the original staging that the Bolshoi dropped (little bits of mime with the letter, the tapestry, etc, the entr'acte before the dream with a much more elaborate set, the knights/cavaliers for some of the corps in the dream, the boy pages, the famous Raymonda entrance scooping up the roses). A treasure to have.

One change audiences might find hard to accept was in the 1895 production (and apparantly the Moscow 1877) Odile was merely Rothbart's daughter and wore a multicoloured jeweled tutu, no black feathers to be seen...

I found some short advertising clips for "the Bolshoi's Cinderella" on youtube, and it's NOT the old 60s Bolshoi movie. I recognize the choreography from videos I've seen of the Vaganova Academy's Cinderella Act II which they still perform in the old Kirov Sergeyev production (and is a GORGEOUS production--makes me sad it's still nto done elsewhere--hands down my fave traditional Cinderella Act II). So I assume this is from the video that we mention above--mislabelled as Bolshoi?

The reason I'm not sure is it has more special effects than I would have expected. It does make me all the more sad that a soviet version *recorded from stage* wasn't kept.

At the risk of seeming redundant--I also think Disney did a great job in Fantasia 2000 with their Shotakovich piece, Steadfast Teen Soldier. Brilliant animation and a moving little story--and the ballerina dances as well as any animaed ballerina should.

Thanks Juliet and thank you for the warm welcome--I'm already quite addicted to this site, and talking to people who have similar interests and questions to me.

I have exhausted the UVIC theatre department's costume library--we're encouraged to look elsewhere, and since the univercity is not dance oriented, I'll have to. I think I'll focus on the Diaghilive era--as my post on the Kirov/Nijinsky DVD showed, I'm sorta warming myself towards that era anyway--and it's a manageable 20 years. But it's GREAT to have the history of the costume for men before (thanks Mel!) and put it in detail.

We definetly, as much as I adore Kolpokova in the 1980 (1970s?) DVD, could use a new filming of the Kirov--and I think Lopatkina would be ideal.

I've just watched this DVD for the third time, and foudn this thread, so apologies for bumping it.

First of all, I definetly think it's worth the price (especially as I found it four $8 Canadian). Most of my ballet DVDs are the transfers from 80s and 70s videos, and it's incredibly exciting to have this in such high quality both image and score wise (5.1!). The only two of these dances I already knew well were the shorter two; Spectre and Polovstian Dances. In both cases I was pleasantly surprised--Spectre is a dance that's always *bored* me, and I've been afraid to admit it. I never got the appeal--even what the appeal would have been in 1910, Nijinsky's leaps aside. But this time I actually got "into" it and it was largely due to Ayupova's great "waking dream" performance. I think I still have trouble getting past the music which always makes me think of endless family dinners at my grandma's...

Polovstian Dances was *fantastic*. I had forgotten how exciting Fokine's choreography, particularly the male work (and had half forgotten how gorgeous Borodin's music is). I've always been curious as to what Lev Ivanov's original choreography for this must have been like (very different I imagine), but after watching this DVD segment, I don't care. The filming didn't bother me too much except, as others said, the times they focused on the singing chorus--which weren't often but, surreally, seemed to have every time just when a virtuoso move or combination was being performed. Argh.

As for the longer ballets... I've read about Sheherazade, and seen pictures, ever since I started looking through the library's ballet books as a kid. My parents had a print of one of the costume designs in our living room. And as a kid I was OBSESSED with Rimsky Korsakov's orchestral piece. On the other hand, just a little while ago I had read an old Denby review of the piece saying it had become one of the worse ballets to see in any production and should be retired. I admit it took a little while for me to get "involved"--as Fokine pieces often do. But I was impressed with how much intensity it ended up being danced with. Someone in this thread complained it wasn't sexy--but I was actually pretty shocked imagining some of the dancing and scenes being performed for 1910 Paris.

I think Zakharova was fine in the role, but I admit I don't know too much about the recent Kirov stars and have never seen anyone else in the role. Yet, for me the role works with someone who's cold--the character feels cold and conniving despite her love and passion for the Slave which causes her ultimate sacrifice--that's the surprise in the character for me. Everything else--lieing to the Sultan, getting the keys, feels a bit conniving and it worked. I do agree though with whoever said, even by ballerina standards she's maybe a bit too thin for that outfit...

It used basically the original designs, right? I ask because pictures of the Ballet Russes productions show a LOT more details in the set. Then again I bet they were taken with all the stage lights on...

Firebird was what I was most looking forward to--and while, once again it took me maybe 10 minutes to really get involved--I wasn't disappointed. I actually had never seen a production of the Fokine version before, but knew several others (Balanchine, Robbins) and being a Stravinsky nut I knew several of his versions of the score as well. I thought it was *terrific*. Beautiful production (were these the close to the 1910 designs? Some of it looked like old pictures, other bits like the Firebird's outfit didn't), and amazing to see how right Fokine's style suits the music. As for the cast--again maybe they could have cast a better Firebird since those of you who have seen other dancers in the role prefer them. I thought Vishneva was great--I liked how cold and proud and intense she kept the bird at every time--even when she was captured it made sense to me. I thought some elements--like the wall of stone knights and the tree--worked better than I'd seen before, and Yakovlev was admirable and handsome in a fairly thankless role (he wins points for not making that costume look silly).

Anyway, even though I'm much more of a newbie to these productions and dancers, and I guess most on here feel it *could have been better*, I'm a bit surrpised by the mixed to negative comments on here. It's especially great to have considering how hard it is, surprisingly, to find Diaghilev work on DVD--and I enjoy it much more than the Return of the Firebird disc with all its intrusive, to me, film elements.

A few caveats--the title obviously is trading on Nijinsky's name, but was he even known for roles in Firebird and Polovstian Dances? The Slave and Spectre, were of course synonymous with him. I guess Fokine's name is thought not to sell as many copies. Still when I saw Nijinsky in the title I expected maybe Apres Midi or the Kirov's reconstruction of Sacre, or Petrushka...

Also, yeah some of the camera work is *awful*. But... Most ballet visual recordings have at least some bad camera work--this one evens out for me as more good than bad. Yes there are a few too many close ups and weird angles (though at times I welcomed the closeups--like some shots of Vishneva and her intense Firebird eyes), but I think it's balanced out with enough full stage shots (something that seem to be rarer and rarer in modern dance recordings--sadly) that I felt I got a sense of the choreography, and stage, and only had a few frustrating moments of shouting for them to cut to a different shot.

I'm looking for info on the various productions of Fokine's The Firebird (not later versions by other choreographers).

I know Alexander Golovin did the original settings and costumes, with Bakst coming in to do the Firebird and Princess outfits in the end. I also know in Fokine's biography he complains that Diaghilev forgot to get a final backdrop for the final scene with the glowing/saved city so they had to perform it with the earlier setting. I know that the costumes and settings were damaged and i think in the 20s it was redesigned?

The only production I've seen is the Kirov's reconstruction on the Kirov/Nijinsky DVD. It doesn't have an original costumes/setting credit, but I know most of it looks like the old pictures--and the final backdrop IS a restored/glowing city, which I've seen in other ballet books. What designs are these based on? In the old Diaghilev pictures the Firebird doesn't have such a classical tutu, but the rest seems more or less accurate. Were there two complete designs done under Fokine for his ballet?

Thanks for any info!

I have to edit my original post--since reading Fokine's memoirs I'm even more confused. He speaks out against the 1920s redesign of his Firebird--complainign of several things. One is that the backdrop with the fence is now changed so there is no fence, making the entrance of the characters to Fokine now motiveless. But in the Kirov's there is a fence. However, he also complains that the Firebird is now in a traditional tutu--something he deplores--which she certainly is in the Kirov.

From pictures I've come3 to the conclusion the Kirov largely is based on the original designs except for the Firebird, and the final backdrop (which Fokine like) which is from the redesign. But I'd love anyone else's take on this.

Thanks to both of you for clearing that up. So probably each release would look as good/bad as the other and it should just boil down to price? How frustrating that there's not a proper release (or a filmed on stage version of the Bolshoi original). Are there any telecasts of it sitting in a vault waiting for DVD? I guess we have to be content with the 60s Bolshoi film.

Thanks again!

In the same book's text, Grigorovich mentions that a 30s Kirov version by Vainonen made the much more interesting plot change of De Brien being ultimately kinda evil, and Aberakham ultimately sympathetic, but since it didn't really go with Glazunov's music, Grigorovich decided his production would stick and grow from the original storyline. He also mentions that around then the Kirov dropped the White Lady, but how essential he finds her to the ballet's story especailly as she has her own theme in the music (ironic that in the 2003 tightening he's done, her character's been eliminated completely--something I don't like).

Besides dropping the White Lady (boo), the current Kirov version from 1948 is still more faithful than Grigorovich's--although I do admit his decision to have Jean de Brien in the openign scene saying goodbye to Raymonda, and then the seperation between Acts I and II being several months works better drama wise than the Kirov and original, where Jean de Brien doesn't show up till the dream and Aberakham comes in the first scene--and the division between Acts is just overnight.

Thanks so much! It looks like it answers a lot of questions that the other sources I've found have merely brought up (like why we have a Prince Whooping Cough!). So it sounds like Clara and the others were present around the beehive. Man, I wish there was a photograph of this.

Cheers!

Is there any DVD release of the Leonid Lavrosky's "original" Romeo and Juliet out there on DVD, either from the Kirov or the Bolshoi? I know it's still in the Kirov repertoire, but a simple search for Kirov Romeo and Juliet brings up nothing on Amazon. On the other hand Bolshoi Romeo and Juliet brings up a lot of things. I already own the Ulanova film from the 50s--which is beautiful but I want a filmed on stage production without edits, and those huge original sets.

There are a few other Bolshoi productions but i'm worried they're the Grigorovich restaging--Amazon doesn't, of course, make it clear.

Thanks so much guys!

*edited Feb 5* I did some research on my own (I know, what a concept) and have decided the DVD I want is the Vasiliev/Maximova one from the 70s, out on VAI. I don't own anything with them dancing as a pair except in excerpts and it seems like a good choice for the original staging as well, despite some Amazon comments about it being too dark (something I've gotten used to for Bolshoi ballets of the 70s and 80s).

*However* there also is a Bolshoi production that seems to be the Lavrosky staging (not the later Grigorovich one) that's sold in N America only as part of a box set with Nutcracker and Giselle. The R&J doesn't seem to be sold on its own, and the only description is: Romeo and Juliet. the classic ballet in a perfect performance captured on the Bicentennial Anniversary of the Bolshoi Theatre in Moscow, featuring two of Russia’s most legendary soloists, Natalia Bessmertnova and Mikhail Lavrovsky.

http://www.amazon.com/Trilogy-Ballet-Nutcr..._tit_10_rsrsrs0

I was wondering if anyone had opinions on how this compared to the Vasiliev/Maximova?

I admit, there's something about Ashton's Cinderella (as seen on DVD anyway) that I always resist. I *think* I prefer the point of view the Soviets took on this, I also really dislike that Ashton cut the around the world divertissement (which seemed like such a great Petipa hommage to his silly arbitrary, and great, divertissements). I mean the ballet *isn't*, by classical (or Romeo and Juliet) standards all that long even if you use every bit of Prokofiev's score.

I know Ashton did want it to be a Petipa hommage but I think he missed the boat and I don't like the English Pantomime stepsisters (yes Petipa's ballet had some great men as women roles--Carabosse being the most famous--but this comes from a different tradition altogether). Prokofiev dedicated his score to Tchaikovsky and, while it is much more dissonant, and angular than what we'd ever get from Pyotr, I really hear a lot of Sleeping Beauty in it. Sleeping Beauty reflected through a dark, cracked mirror 50 years later, anyway ;) I think it's one of Prokofiev's finest works, even over Romeo and Juliet (it's funny the score divides peopel so sharply--ballet goers seem to be even more divided on it than they are on Glazunov's Raymonda another score I adore but lots of people don't seem to get and find tuneless).

I wish we had a good document of the Bolshoi's production on stage, or even an ok document of the Kirov's (we sorta do) though the film, as cheesy as it is, has a lot to recommend it. It's a little disappointing to me that neither the Kirov nor the Bolshoi has a traditional, grand, Cinderella in their repertoire anymore, though I've heard positive and negative things about both of their current productions. I guess the original Bolshoi Cinderella was never quite the certified classic that Leonid Lavrovsky's Romeo and Juliet has been (I know many will disagree with me but I hope the Kirov never loses their production of that). (Oddly the Bolshoi doesn't seem to have Lavrosky's NOR Grigorovich's, nor indeed any production of Romeo and Juliet, which I so associate with them, in their current repertoire!)

My first exposure to this ballet was when I was 11 or 12 and first getting really into ballet and the Kiev ballet came to our little city with their production. I really can't from an adult perspective say if the production (very traditional in the Soviet style) was any good but at the time I thought it was the best thing I'd ever seen live, and immediately went out and bought the CD of the score (I was surprised, and still am, at how few good full recordings of the score exist).

It's my favorite ballet too. If I had known that the times they brought both ballets to New York were maybe the only times I'd see the reconstructions I would have done everything I could--even though I was a starving student at the time--and travelled to see them. lol Oh well.

I actually just finished Tim Scholl's book which is *fascinating*. It's definetly a complex subject. And I even get some of the complexities--I like the Soviet versions of both ballets the Kirov has quite a bit--Sergeyev's Sleeping Beauty is actually my favorite production that I've seen all of,a nd so I was ok with their plan to keep both productions of both ballets and maybe only do the reconstructions a few times a year (they must be expensive to perform).

No need to apologize about rambling--it's great to read your thoughts and a subject I could ramble on myself for a long time... (as anyone who's read even some of my posts on here will know ;) ) I admit I was kinda hoping we'd get a few more of these... Raymonda?

Chrisk thanks so much for your help! I don't think I've been ever so baffled by trying to buy a ballet DVD...

I've been trying to figure this out and there's more confusion for me...

Initially I was trying to find a production on dvd of the Bolshoi original Rostislav Zakharov production--is all that we have filmed of that in "full" the edited movie version from the 60s? Or was there a live DVD made before they dropped it from their repertoire?

I know Sergeyev did his version only a year later--is the only film we have of that production the 70s filming you mention with the cheesy effects (and apparantly not too well filmed from reviews).

Anyway, on to the DVDs-- http://www.amazon.com/Prokofiev-Cinderella...a/dp/B0000DZ3H8 this one seems to be the mislabelled Kirov/Bolshoi production you mention. It's out of print too. I generally liek Sergeyev's productions, and being a huge fan of Prokofiev's music I'd love to see this, but for that price and considering at 90 minutes it must be edited and maybe not that well filmed I might hold out even if it's my only chance...

And then there's THIS Bolshoi version http://www.amazon.com/Prokofiev-Cinderella...JXX220FSSDKP8KS I thought/hoped at first it was a live recording done in the 70s but it appears to be another film or edit since it's only 80 minutes long--still I know nothing about it. Any help guys?

Thanks!!

There's some discussion of this by me and others in the Ballets and Choreographers folder. I have a lot of problems with the Royal Ballet production I admit--but I have a lot of problems with most Nutcrackers, lol. But, the filming is very good and even if it's not as clear as the more recent Royal Ballet filming, I think all the changes made to the production by then detract instead of add to the ballet. A lot of the choreography for the 80s production was based on the original Ivanov (the Snowflakes, Waltz of the Flowers, Grand Pas even having that scene where Sugar Plum is pulled on a scarf en pointe--all those original touches have been dropped or changed for the revised version as well as Nutcracker and Clara now dancing throughout the divertissement, needlessly).

Despite my grumpy sounding reservations, I think the 1980s Royal Ballet Nutcracker is probably the best traditional Nutcracker all things said. And Collier and Dowell are *great* even in their awful costumes ;)

I believe the bluebird in the reconstructed Sleeping Beauty costume is correct--it looks a lot like the pictures we've seen of Ceccheti in the costume, albeit a bit streamlined--since we at least have Act III filmed you can see his costume (and the Prince's in the Grand Pas) pretty clearly.

I think you're right that baseball players did wear more loose fitting outfits... It looks that way anyway. As Mel said part of this is due to what new fabricks we have, and part of course due to what society deems as acceptable. It's also partly what you get used to--even the most conservative of modern ballet goers wouldn't think twice about the men's outfitst anymore (or the amount of flesh a modern guy in the Corsair pas de deux--or a female bayadere for that matter--would wear).

Could someone tell me about this (now out of print?) DVD of Cinderella? All I know is it's meant to be the Bolshoi. I'd love to know year it was filmed, length, choreographer and leads... You knwo the basics--and if anyone would recommend it.

Here's the link: http://www.amazon.com/Cinderella-Bolshoi-B...2245&sr=8-6

Paul, I broke down and ordered the DVD of Bessmertnova--while I doubt I'll prefer her to Semenyaka, it'll be nice to see a perhaps better filmed version and I love the ballet so much I'm sure it'll be a worthy purchase for me. Do you remember off the top of your head why the dvd is some 24 minutes shorter in listing? Is it just all the applause breaks, etc?

I know exactly what you mean about Semenyaka's follow through her her "clap"--wonderful stuff. I'd never seen her dance before, so she was a happy surprise. You're right that even just a series of wonderful dances to evocative music is't s agreat ballet, although I admit I wouldn't mind a bit more mime and I don't like that they've dropped the White Lady (I miss her in the Kirov production). I assume she was already cut by the time you saw them on tour, though I admit it's not a big issue really in such a story. There are aspects I like about each production--pros and cons. But I do think it's a handsome production and maybe underated (I know Grigorovich's stagings of the classics don't often get a lot of love here and I also like the Court look and how the court women and men almsot float around).

I'll be interested to know what you think of the Kirov production when you see it!

Can someone help me find a basic production history (choreographer and what years it was performed) of Cinderella at the Bolshoi? I know the ballet made its premiere there.

Was a full live production of the original production ever filmed?

On the Bolshoi's ballet page they list two Giselles in repertoire. I know the Kirov does this with their two reconstructed ballets--Sleeping Beauty and Bayaderka--the old and the old/new editions-- But that doesn't seem to be the case with Giselle at the Bolshoi (if anything I think the Kirov's production with old scenery is closer to the old Petipa productions). One's Grigorovich--is there a reason both are still performed and is there a preference both among members on here, and withthe company in terms of which version they stage more often?

I refuse to give up hope until I hear about the original Panorama for SB being dismantled or the sets sold or burned ;) But this is sad news. I wonder if they realize how excited in these productions international balletomanes are?? I mean, at first I thought they weren't filming the Reconstructed SB because they wanted to save it only for live showings--which made sense--but now, you'd think they could stand to make a decent amount of money makign a DVD or showing of it. Yeah ballet DVDs don't sell much but I know that'd be one of the best selling new ballet releases among the ballet DVDs we get. Hell they could do a box set of SB, Bayadere and Waking of Flora, charge 100 or 150 bucks and I'd happily buy it... Maybe not many would tho'

I also wonder with how many of the Fokine/Diaghilev ballets they've done, and even most of the Balanchine, which I love all of, but they are almost all pretty much reconstructions of the orginal productions. Why is this different? For msot modern audiences something liek Sheherazade doesn't seem all that more modern than Sleeping Beauty...

People have said that this was spearheaded in many ways by the oh so modern Valery Gergeiv. I'm a modest opera fan but no very little about the Mariinsky's current opera company. I DO know they've done a lot of modern opera works, modern styled productions, and co-productions with the Met and others lately but do they still have some of those old Soviet style "stand and sing" warhorses? And do they have any reconstructions or old productions of operas like they were trying with ballet? I noticed Rusland and Lyudmila by Glinka uses designs reconstructed from 1904, Prince Igor in the old production with the Fokine dances, Maid of Pskov is a 50s traditional production. I also noticed the three biggest Tchaikovsky operas, Queen of Spades (my personal fave opera), Eugene Onegin and Mazeppa all have traditional and modern stagings in the repertoire--I imagine this was done partly to appease people upset that Tchaikovsky's operas might be so radically staged in his hometown. However with the majority of the operas listed on their homepage, it seems, the stagings look quite modern (with Gergiev credited with conception for a number of them).

Of course opera and ballet and how they're staged and viewed are pretty different--the often avant garde stagings of classic operas have NOT (despite some successes and some attempts) ever become mainstream ways for major ballet companies to stage the classics, for a variety of reasons between the art forms but...

Another difference of course is the Marrinsky ballet seems content to go to their old (Sergeyev) ballet stagings (which for the record I largely love), while the opera company has a huge number of brand new productions from the past 8 years.

I hope this isn't off topic--but since we're discussing the Kirov's Don Q--while it hasn't been "reconstructed" in any way, has the Kirov Don Q changed in any major way--design or choreography, since the 1902 famous Gorsky version it basically--from what I can tell--still is? (I almost wonder why Sergeyev and others never touched it back when it seemed everything was being changed in some way)?

Did you grow up with the designs? That may play a part. I grew up with Alberta Ballet's local production which was basically based on Balanchine's and was COLOURFUL. Also, seeing how much the original Sleeping Beauty designs LOVED crazy bright colours, I suspect that the Kingdom of Sweets was filled with bright colours too (I've seen the set design, which is odd to say the least, but only in black and white). And being a fan of Mere Gigogne/Mother Ginger, I think one reason she's not use din the Royal ballet's production is she'd clash with their colour scheme ;) Actually in the interview I tried to link to above, Wright mentions how oppulent and colourful and LUSH the original production's Act II was.

That said I kinda get the Royal design--and isn't there a cake in Act I that looks just like it? And I suspect it looks better in person than on my TV (where Sugar Plum and her Prince Cocaluche sorta fade into the background)...

The Apotheosis is one of my favorite parts of the score for Sleeping Beauty (even if it's basically jsut a good arrangement of the Vive Henri IV tune. I'd love to hear what Stravinsky changed it too. Don't forget that besides the Chinese and Arabian dances from Nutcracker being incorporated (probably to satisfy Diaghilev's audiences love for anything "oriental"), and the Three Ivans dancing to the Grand Pas' coda, and Lilac Fairy danced to the Sugar Plum Fairy's variation. I know of the CDs out there with the Bluebird Pas De Deux in Stravinsky's orchestration--sadly amazon doesn't have a free clip from them LOL I guess i'll have to check them out sometime.

Under Diaghilev, this was the order of numbers in Aurora's Wedding (I believe later companies like Monte Carlos doing the excerpt probably staged it differently):

1) Introduction (Prologue)

2) Polacca (Act 3)

3) Pas de Six (Prologue)

4) Scene; Danse des Duchesses; Danse des Marquises (Act 2)

5) Farandole; Danse - Tempo di Mazurka (Act 2)

6) Pas de Quatre (Act 3)

7) Pas de Caractere-Chaperone Rouge et la Loup (Act 3)

8) Pas de Quatre (Act 3)

9) Coda-The Three Ivans (Act 3)

10) Pas de Deux (Act 3)

11) Finale - Tempo di Mazurka; Apotheose (Act 3)

Bakst's designs are GORGEOUS. However, I've heard they were a bit much on stage. In the book The World of Serge Diaghilev there are a number of quotes that say the sheer lavishness and over the top ness of even the minor costumes and those backdrops was "ultimately of pastiche". Bakst was very sick when he designed them and it was a great undertaking he couldn't quite give all his ultimate ennergy to the finished touches (it was a big deal he even did them--Diaghilev couldn't get Benois and as was often the case with Serge, he was on bad terms with Bakst so basically had to beg him to design the ballet, promising him a Stravinsky opera at the same time). I'm not trying to suggest his designs aren't beautiful but maybe what we all see in exhibitions and on paper wasn't quite the overall effect?

For Aurora's Wedding, ever-ambitious Diaghilev, even though he was forced to use the Pavilon D'A set, commisioned the artist Erte to do costumes--but they never were finished. A few designs have been published and if anything they look even more elaborate than Bakst.