act III pdd variations
Posted 03 July 2001 - 02:05 PM
why are there so many different pdd variations in act III? I've heard 2 different men's variations and the same goes for the women. And then there is the tch. pdd that was thrown out and now we have the standard music we all know today. But it does confuse me as to how all of this different music came about. What was the original and how did the other variations come into play?
Posted 03 July 2001 - 09:47 PM
Posted 04 July 2001 - 02:36 PM
Thanks for asking, Leslie -- and welcome to Ballet Alert
Posted 08 September 2005 - 03:31 AM
However, I do much prefer Drigo's orchestration of the male variation (although I don't think it should be cut at all - which means leaving in the coda). I believe the original score shouldn't have been tampered with as much. I also believe Drigo's additions to both of the pas de deuxs are inappropriate. In the white pas de deux, not the reprise of the B theme, but the runs of the violin. The Black Swan Pas de Deux could have ended simply with the two pizzicato notes that preceed the part that "needed" to be cut, or infact be left as was.
Posted 09 September 2005 - 11:51 AM
Posted 09 September 2005 - 01:35 PM
Odile's variation is by Tchaikovsky, orchestrated by Drigo. It's one of his piano pieces entitled "L'Espiègle" (The Mischievous Child).
Posted 10 September 2005 - 02:56 AM
Yes, Mel, I know that Odile's variation is Tchaikovsky's. I referred to it as "the Drigo variation" because Drigo orchestrated and put it there, not Tchaikovsky. No matter what it is entitled, as I stated before I believe that the original music for the variation sounds more "Odile".
Another question - why was Petipa unhappy with the original music for Odile's variation?
Posted 10 September 2005 - 04:32 AM
We have to be precise about how we refer to the musical content of the Tchaikovsky ballets, because for years, the Conventional Wisdom held that the additions to the 1877 score were by Drigo, instead of being arranged by him from Tchaikovsky piano selections. Recent scholarship, notably by Wiley, has straightened out once and for all what happened, and we should exercise very careful and precise language to keep the record straight.
Posted 10 September 2005 - 06:32 AM
Posted 06 July 2007 - 11:14 AM
I actually much prefer the original Tchaikovsky variation for Odile. .
When you state "the original Tchaikovsky variation for Odile", do you refer to the "Tempo di valse" music? ( Now that i think about it i'm sure that i've heard it here and there in some produccions of Swan Lake, but i can't remember where and by who)
Posted 06 July 2007 - 02:41 PM
To tell the truth, i don't even know why did Petipa dumped the beautiful ORIGINAL III Act Odile/Siegfried PDD music, (now Tchaikovsky PDD) in favor of the I Act "Marry Makers PDD" one. Everytime i see TPDD, i can't help but think: "this is not what Tchaikovsky had in mind", or "this should be Odile and Siegfried dancing here", and so on. Furthermore,, I would LOVE to see a brave ( and probably unreverent to Petipa's vision ) production with the 1877 uncut full score,(at least on the III Act) even if Petipa has to be adapted. ( at the end, didn't he adapt Tchaikowsky himself...? )
- why was Petipa unhappy with the original music for Odile's variation?
Posted 06 July 2007 - 09:37 PM
Posted 07 July 2007 - 12:12 PM
Anyways, back to SL. I've read some scholars where they state that "TPDD" had nothing to do with Tchaikovsky , mentioning the whole well known Sobeshchanskaya/Tchaikovsky/Petipa/Minkus ordeal, resulting in the now "TPDD" ( theories of T. merely re orchestrating the Minkus numbers). So, if in the march 4 , 1877 premiere with Karpakova the "TPDD" wasn't still in the ballet, (inserted later on april 26) and if it's known that the "Russian Dance" was composed specially for Karpakova, IS THERE ANY EVIDENCE OF HOW WAS THE ORIGINAL III ACT CONCEIVED? Oh, and again, what happened to the "Tempo di Valse" (2nd variation) of the "Merry Makers PDD" after 1895?
Posted 07 July 2007 - 11:11 PM
There are period reviews which describe the "Danse Russe" in some detail, which lead me to conclude that Siegfried and Benno engaged in a mime dialogue about how this woman looks just like the other one.
Nureyev made use of the original valse music in some of his stagings of the Black Swan pas de deux, and sometimes he used the 2/4 vivo from TPDD. In others, he used various variations from the pas de six.
Posted 08 July 2007 - 12:46 AM
IS THERE ANY EVIDENCE OF HOW WAS THE ORIGINAL III ACT CONCEIVED?
Wiley in his "Tchaikovsky's Ballets" gives in translation of the scenario from the First Editions of their librettos which gives an outline of the dances but no clear indication of what music was used when. Elsewhere in the chapter on "Swan Lake", Wiley sketchily discusses the music for Act III.
As "Swan Lake" received three production in six years and by the fourth performance additions had been made. Notes in Tchaikovsky's holograph score differs in stage action to that which was published elsewhere.
There is no in depth record of what music was performed at the premiere and it has been assumed that Reisinger had generally made a number of cuts to Tchaikovsky's music.
Wiley states according to Stepan Ryabov the conductor at the Bolshoi, Sobeschenskaya went to St. Petersburg to get a new pas de deux from Minkus for Reisinger to create. Tchaikovsky objected and using the tempi of Minkus composed music to match the choreography of the new pdd which the ballerina wished to keep.
Mel is right to point out that the ballet was not such a failure from its beginnings as had been long believed. In fact "Swan Lake" at the Moscow Bolshoi Theatre survived in the repertoire almost twice as long as most ballets of that time.
It would be interesting at least, to think there is more information on the first performance of "Swan Lake" to be discovered.
ED: For clarification,
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