dido

I have no information to add, just read the article in the Boston Herald, and very bummed about it. Sarah Lamb was one of the dancers that I was just starting to get a real feel for. I happened to see her quite often, and was starting to recognize certain qualities of movement that were "hers."

At the end of the article she mentions money being "an elephant that's always in the room." That's one aspect of the eternal money question that I haven't seen discussed here. How terrible for the dancers to be worried about company funds.

I guess lots of people all over the country worry about how the company that employs them is doing financially, but it seems all wrong.

I finally figured out what my "great puzzle" with this movie is.

If it is supposed to be merely a historically accurate recreation of the events of the Gospels, then why is a main source those mystical visions?

If it is supposed to be a recreation of the Gospels, well, why isn't it?

Or is it some third thing that I don't know about?

I guess I just don't understand the basis of the film. I'm not sure I want to go contribute my $10 to it's success either. I wish there were a way to see things like this without inadvertantly expressing one's financial support, at least not until it's over.

Addding to Hans' point, opera and classica drama have fixed texts. I've seen a few "updates" of Euripides, a wonderful Meldea and a not so great Children of Heracles (hard to do much with that one though) in the last year or two. Or that Richard the III with Ian McKellen (which I also liked a lot).

But everyone in the audience has at least available to them the original text, and I don't have that for Swan Lake. What's worse is I don't even know what I'm getting. The typical notation (if memory serves) is "choreography by ?, after Petipa/Ivanov." In that production of Medea, they even included the translator's name, and I could make a judgement as to how he solved the literal/poetic problem.

Now if I watch my 5 or 6 Swan Lakes right before I go to see a performance ( How long would that take!) maybe I'll have some idea of what's old and what's new.

So I guess I don't have a problem with "updating the classics" in theory, but I think it's borderline dishonest to do it when very few people in your audience have any way of understanding what the original looked like. Then too, there really are plenty of people who just want to see Swan Lake.

I guess I'm going to have to go see it.

What is really interesting me is Gibson's insistence on the "literal re-telling" aspect, and what so many critics have pointed out as the flaws/self-contradiction/ruder-synonyms in that approach.

Pilate is an interesting case; he forms such a focus in later tradition. I think Tacitus (more reliable than Suetonius at any rate) just records that Tiberius reprimanded him for his intollerance. My favorite portrait of Pilate is in Bulgakov's Master and Margarita.

I hope to keep this uninflamitory and polite.

Moderators, please remove this post if you feel that it is inappropriate in any way.

That said, I am very interested in Gibson's stated claims that he is "reproducing the Gospels" and the critical response. Frankly, I have not and do not want to see the movie because of certain aspects which have come out in the reviewing.

Personally, as a classics Ph.d student I wonder why the whole movie is in Latin and Aramaic, as opposed to Greek and Aramaic (which is much more likely).

This casts doubt on the whole project (as I understand it) speaking fron a simply historical perspective.

I wonder what those of us who have been (or not been) have to say about the presentation, the message and and the impact of this (dare I say) world changing movie?

Just to add another analogy, think of Greek literature and 90% of those answering will say Homer, Sophocles, Aeschylus or Euripides, but we have tons and tons of poetry, mimes, even novels from the 4th century on.

Many of these later Hellenistic writers were scholar/poets. Callimachus is probably the greatest figure, known for excercising vast influence on Roman poetry and completing a catalogue of the Museum at Alexandria.

They too were hyperaware of what had been done before, and it took the form of a conscious revolt/immitation. Yeah, do an epic, like Homer, use Homer's language, but do it in 4 books instead of 48, and make it all about human relationships (the Argonautica).

I think this question of "after the giants" gets solved in a lot of different ways, at a lot of different times. The Hellenistic poets went very intellectual and small scale ("A big book is a big evil"), Webster went over the top and beyond.

What's interesting about all this for me is how individuality is still preserved. I can't stand most Hellenistic poetry (though I do like the epigrams), but the Duchess of Malfi is hands down my favorite play ever written. I realize it can't compete even with the worst of Shakespeare, but I still love it to death.

I saw Vasileiv and Maximova on tour in Anchorage, AK sometime between 1990 and 1992, they were in a show called Stars of the Bolshoi or something of that sort.

They did excerpts from Cinderella and MacBeth that I remember, and I credit that performance with starting my real interest and devotion to ballet. I remember no details but for Maximova's sinuous jumps in a scarlet dress as Lady MacBeth.

I feel so privileged to have seen it.

:offtopic: I went to St. John's too, vagansmom. I still have all my program books with me (including some really weird ones --the 4 volume Summa Theologica of St Thomas Aquinas for one, boy that was expensive and needless to say I haven't exactly finished it).

I choose books almost entirely by author, and so sadly I rarely read any "new" books, I'm still working my way through books by people whose other books I liked. I'm also an inveterate re-reader. There's a whole slew of books that I reread at least once a year (all of Jane Austen, the Master and Margarita, anything by Dasheil Hammet ).

And it would never occur to me to read the last line/paragraph. How astonishing!

I think it's very interesting: (remember I know kids books) "I didn't like "I, Juan de Paraeja" What? Are you on crack? I didn't like "Roller Skates" or "The Good Master" (or anything by Kate Seredy).

I want is so much more powerful than I will.

Off the subject of "Classic Books" I used to work in a kid's bookstore, and I have to admit it killed me when people didn't like books I recommended. It was an independant place and all the staff in my time had read just about everything there (bar Babysitter's Club, etc).

If one of the staff, or a beloved customer (adult or child) came back and said, "Well, I didn't think The True Confessions of Charlotte Doyle" or anything by Joan Aiken was the best thing they'd ever read (all of my favorite books, in the 1000's by now deserve "the best thing I've ever read" status), I always felt personally hurt.

The good news is I didn't ever blame the person in question, though. It's funny how personal things can be. I couldn't speak to my roommate for weeks when I found out he didn't like Don Quixote. Not cause I was mad, I just always wanted to say, "Why?Why?Why?"

I can't imagine a situation when boos would be acceptable (outside of the bad guy in a melodrama) simply because I think a boo doesn't express one's displeasure with a performance but sheer meanness.

Adding to dirac's point, I personally know about myself that I can never get into a George Eliot book till about page 300/700. Thank goodness I was forced to read Middlemarch in school, because I wouldn't have finished it on my own, and now it's one of my favorite books. Oddly enough, same exact thing happened with Daniel Deronda and Felix Holt. I had to force my way through the first 1/3 to 1/2 and then stayed up all night reading the rest in one breathless gasp. I always keep this in mind when I decide not to finish a book.

In principle, however, I fully support the idea of jettisoning a boring book midway.

Oh, yeah. I totally blame the Guys in Charge for my ignorance , for example Boston Ballet is doing Swan Lake this spring; it will be my first live Swan Lake and all I know about it is that "The New York Times" (not even the name of the critic) said (when? who knows?) that it was "the best in the country."

Which if you think about it, doesn't tell me anything. Now I'll probably be able to compare it down the Dowell/Makarova and the Nuryev/Fonteyn and that newish Royal Swedish Ballet Swan Lake, but even with the program notes it's going to be hard to tell how faithful it is 1) to the 1895 2) to whatever production the NY Times was talking about.

Sigh. 4 or 5 productions a year is not enough. (Not saying that BB should be putting on more, but that more people should come through Boston. With cheap student rush tickets.)

Oh dear, even I who "only know that I'm ignorant" am worried about a quote like that.

Has the man not even seen any videos? I've got 5 or 6 Swan Lake's kicking around here somewhere (most of them at least "after" Petipa and Ivanov) and while some are better than others and I don't yet know how FAR after PandI they are, they certainly aren't, uh, stiff and posed soulless showcases for technique."

Historically speaking I guess zillions have artists have trashed their predecessors, but it always horrifies me to see such disrespect; Hecataeus of Miletus (one of the earliest extant Greek prose writer c. 500 BCE) claimed to be writing his history to set the record straight because "The stories of the greeks are myriad and moronic."

I feel like I belong to that part of the public that "doesn't know what a good ballet is." I can't honestly say I have a clear understanding of the relative merits of Concerto Barocco and Cranko's Onegin, say. Possibly this is because I never get to SEE any ballets, much less see them multiple times.

No problem, and entirely my fault I'm afraid. Generous was another word upon reflection that I feel I should confirm. I mean, really what was she doing in a town of 5,000 people, not only to give a performance, but a class as well? Our town has always supported the arts, but so much of the credit must be given to her. I distinctly remember that class as the only time in my dancing history when I felt unself-conscious and unjudged, and yet it was honest at the same time. A beautiful woman.

Do we really not have anyone from Alberta who's seen the performance?

Oh, YES, it was me that was tubby and untalented; I thought she was absolutely marvelous in every way. Only in rereading do I see how ambiguously worded it was.

Her performance has faded in my memory (because I have terrible visual memory) but I remember the feeling I had, incandescent describes it well.

According to the Jan. DANCE magazine Ms Gillis will have a premiere on Feb. 13th (tomorrow).

I took a master class from her in a town pop. 5,000 about twelve years ago; tubby, untalented, uncoordinated etc, etc. I almost didn't go after I actually saw her dance. She was so kind, and so encouraging that I continued dancing and have always been very grateful.

I know we have lots of Canadians on the board, is anyone going? If so, please tell me all about it.

(I'd love to hear memories too.)

I've always wanted to see this ballet, from my understanding (gleaned entirely from books and photographs) the Green Table hasn't dated itself very much or at all.

Sandik, is that a commercially available videotape? At least something I could find at the library or something like that?

And even more so than J.K. Rowling, Philip Pullman with the Golden Compass-books, which --love them or hate them--certainly don't talk down to their audience. As do most respectable children's authors.

I love those new ArtsCouncil ads with the shrunken bank managers disguised as children taking sticks away from dogs and turning off the music in the car. So funny and chilling at the same time. I think Mrs Stahlbaum has a strong point, that some of this must (I hope) be to attract the families whose children who will be the audience in time to come.

Major Johnson's remark about Anime also reminds me of a recent exibit at the MFA of free standing day-glo sculptures of mushrooms and "cartoon" stills; and brought me back to FunnyFace's post about modern art being for the rebels and intellectuals. I'm not much into modern things in general, but I remember looking at those toadstools and wondering why the heck I'd wasted 30 minutes wandering outside the Greco-Roman room.

Just an addition to the "underestimation of children" theme, Roald Dahl said that it was much harder to write his children's books than his adult books and short stories, because the children were such brutal critics, not letting you get away with anything.

I'm finding this discussion very provoking (in a good way) because I've always thought of classical ballet (in all its aspects) as being very adult: from the training where you endure and even learn to enjoy the "boring and painful" for the sake of what will come, to the story line where you realize over time that the silly, or even stupid at times, story is the equivalent of that bit of the Titanic iceberg you could actually see, to the complexity of the interrelation between steps and music.

How is this "for" kids? Not that it's inappropriate or above their level but it hardly seems geared to the kindergarten audience.

In another direction, what about the (alleged--I've missed all the actual references) increasing emphasis on the eroticism in ballet, as referenced in Jan.'s Dance Magazine. This seems more like the blow-em-up, sex and violence appeal we're used to seeing in the movies.

Dear Silvy, This is wretched, but the only dancer I know I identify by the name of her son, Govinda, when I knew her she was a beautiful woman, slight, dark, with a mop of black hair. I think she was from Venzuala. I was told she was a principal dancer with a major company in Brazil.

I took her son out riding on horseback, and he was beautiful, she was beautiful as well, how funny I can't remember her name. My small, small connection with South American ballet (I wish it was bigger, I LOVE your reports).

I cannot imagine (no really, cannot even imagine) any one breaking up Ms Whelan's performance. I have only seen her on video & pictures) and yet think her grace and toughness, her sensuality and hard-mindedness (sorry for the non-English words) so define what it is to be a ballerina, that I sincerely mourn with you.

Wendy Whelen seems to me to be made up of equal parts diamond and horse hair, by which I mean that her movements are clear and quick, her physique is taut yet flexible.

I realize many folks dislike her. I am not among them.

To relate this to the thread: I went to Jose Mateo's Nutcracker a few weekends ago (can I just say how gorgeous Jose is? He was the Drosselmeyer, and so beautiful I could totally see Ms Endrizzi wanting to keep him away from all the female guests! In fact, all the dancer's were beautiful, and the arms of young Clara alone were enough to make me cry. Dang, this is a good company!)

I had a family next to me with a "cherub" in the 2nd act. Now coming from a theater family myself I understand the need to see your sister. But why in the name of GOD do you need to kick my seat the whole time, read Charlie Brown Cartoons and reasure the three year old that she's going to see her sister any second now?

The magic took over for me, I might add. I loved the show, especially the dancing ,(there isn't much else , music or set to love at at JMBT show)but it was seriously an effort of will.

I remembered this forum, and tried my damnest to like all the kids.

You know what? I liked the kids who were excited but well behaved.

vagan'smom, have you read Gypsy Girl yet? After An Episode of Sparrows it's my favorite Godden book. She's so steely tough!

I am reading mostly books on the philosophy of mathematics and hellenistic science while trying desperately to find copies of Heiburg's editions of Euclid and Archimedes (Dissertation. Anybody got an extra copy kicking around?) while preparing for my Roman Republic class next semester.

HOWEVER. Over the break I've read all of Robin McKinley's books (Blue Sword, Hero and the Crown, etc) for the 70 zillionth time, and am working my way back through all of Joan Aiken's Dido/Is books which I've collected at great expense just as they're all coming back into print. I can't tell you how much I love that woman's writing. Dido is the best. And yeah, that's who I borrowed my name from, not that lame-o queen of Carthage .

YES! Thank you, Old Fashioned. That might be what I was thinking of in the Nutcracker, and it's a perfect description (and illustration) of what I was trying to describe.

Hans has got me, I think the Candy Cane in Balanchine's Nutcracker does what I'm thinking of (maybe not though, now all I can remember is the hoop spins). I have to admit I associate it mostly with cheerleaders (spring straight up, hoik the legs out in 2nd to as close as a split as you can get, maybe touch your toes, then down). It's certainly nothing I've ever seen in a dictionary of ballet terms. I guess technically it's just a jump from 2 feet to 2 feet though...