ronny

Yes Alexandra, I agree with your evaluation completely. Both Cargill an and Allegro are perfectly on target. Timeless is a perfect description of the classics and The Power of Myth speaks directly to this question... so these are all really wonderful responses and are exactly on the mark. I would like to take it just a little bit more into the idea of contemporary and at the same time keep the thoughts that have already been expressed. Power of Myth goes deeply into it, but Ford Motor Company has verified that all this is completely contemporary and even fashionable. [remark deleted by A.T.]

Nadezhda recently referred to the Classic Ballets as "so contemporary" (this was mentioned in a thread called "Why do you go to the Ballet") I thought that this was such a nice thought that it deserved a thread of its own. So on the surface at least, the classics may seem to be old fashioned with the costumes of kings and queens and court jesters and so on. But underneath perhaps there beats a heart of youth and freshness that is very much a contemporary art form. I can think of several reasons to back up Nedezhda's remark but I wanted to open the question up to everyone else first to see what comes up. So what do you think? Are the classics a bit old fashioned, or are they really fresh contemporary works in disguise.

Was watching "Sleeping Beauty" for the umpteenth time and I noticed something there that I could not leave out of small things that I love. It happens shortly after Aroura has expired and is being carried off to sleep. The Lilac fairy is doing her thing along with her companions and the scene closes with what I love... two fairies very delicately closing the curtians to end the scene. This is such a wonderful small thing I just had to add it here. And a question... do you know of any other ballet in which some celestial beings are pulling the curtains open or closed? It's such a nice touch. Really beautiful.

Ed, with reference to the four channels you have selected, I hope that by the time we have 24/7 for ballet, we will also have no need for the 4th channel that you mention there. After all, if we can get everybody dancing again, who will have time for war and terror? That is my hope anyway. This is a great thought Ed, dance 24/7, thanks for this vision of the future. I hope it happens soon.

Ed, with reference to the four channels you have selected, I hope that by the time we have 24/7 for ballet, we will also have no need for the 4th channel that you mention there. After all, if we can get everybody dancing again, who will have time for war and terror? That is my hope anyway. This is a great thought Ed, dance 24/7, thanks for this vision of the future. I hope it happens soon.

Yes, I understand. Everything is good. If I start wondering about something that is going on here on this site... you know me, I will just ask about it. Right now I have a very comfortable feeling about everything. Rerouting and book referrals are important, they give a person a chance to go much deeper into the subject... not only the one who posted the question, but also the ones who read the thread as well. It enriches the whole process. Its good, very good.

Oh, Hi Alexandra. OK, if I am wanting to get more details on it I will go there. thanks.

Yes Jeanette, I can see why Darcey Bussell would be an inspiration to you. I have seen her on tape (prince of pagodas on "Great Pas de deux"). She is quite impressive. I might try one of those leg extensions, but in my case I better be careful... maybe I can extend about 1/3 of what I am seeing there. Oh, and I think I saw her playing the role of Mitzi in Mayerling. She's cool.

Thanks for sending me to the ballet alert section of the website. I have been there before, but I forgot about it in recent times. Its such a nice summary... very well written. It really does cover the things I was wondering about.

OK, thanks Mel, I'll check it out.

How much is known about Tchaikovsky's involvment in the stage production of Swan Lake and The Nutcracker. On the one hand I can imagine that he might have written the musical scores in isolation after being informed of the storyline... and then the choreographer and dancers took it from there. In contrast to that thought I can also imagine Tchaikovsky being on the scene every day making adjustments to the musical score as he worked with the choreograper to refine the integration of action and music. So does anyone have an idea of how this process was played out when these masterpieces were first created?

This thread reminds me of my favorite kind of storyline... lots of things going on in the middle but everything gets sorted out and finally a happy ending.

Great, thanks to both of you. I learned quite a bit from this discussion. And Alexandra, this thing about the web and people taking ideas and making unusual things from them... I think I finally got the point. This is very good advice about posting. I'll keep it in mind for the future.

I hope this was a lighbulb moment, but I realized today that there must be quite a difference between simply being a ballet fan and being a professional ballet critic. I think that I can assume that the second has customary guidelines that I am not familiar with since I am simply just a new fan. But as I though of what those guidelines could be, then it became clear to me that ballet critics would not be involved in any phase of ballet production, storyline or otherwise. So from that point of view I saw that all the responses to my posts made perfect sense. And Jaana, I think you are right there... this post about "lets create" is just too general. Your suggestion is very good. Thanks. And Mel, you might get paid for your ideas... I was kind of thinking of going to vanityballet.com with my ideas!!! Watermill, yes, you mention a wonderful resource for storylines, there must be many storylines already out there in poems and books that have yet to be discovered. And thanks Leigh, I surely want to visit this website you mention. And Alexandra, once I started thinking about you and your responses in terms of your profession, then I understood what was happening. So If I said anything that wasn't right, I want to apologize. And I want to repeat this thing I posted a while back, your website is such a treasure. I have never seen a website that is as well attended to as this one. Most of them are just empty houses, this one is really a beautiful home. Thanks for being here.

Yes Alexandra, even as new as I am to ballet, I do realize that a ballet is finished in a studio with real dancers. But I don't think that Swan Lake, Giselle and La Sylphide started in a studio. I think that they all started in someones imagination. And I thank you very much for the Moby Dick example... this is EXACTLY what I am talking about. Why even put out those kind of funny ideas? People will act on them! I don't want to see those kind of ideas, I want to see good ideas, and good ideas are dwelling in the hearts and minds of so many of the people who attend this site. If we are kidding around and put out strange ideas, then strange people will see them and act on them... so I DON'T want that. I want to see people put out their good ideas. Good people will recognize a good idea and act on it, strange people will pick up on strange ideas. We need to put out some good storylines... but it seems that this kind of thing is not encouraged on this site. That puzzles me, but I will honor that tradition if you feel so strongly about it. But thanks for the info on bad ballets... I always thought that bad things died quickly, so you have given me something here that I didn't know about... ie, that bad ballets last a long time. I didn't know that. And Leigh, I have noticed the thing you are speaking of also. MOST stories do not make good ballet. It take a very special kind of story to make good ballet. And Leigh, I love your expression about a story that "allows dancing to arise organically". That is a beautiful statement, really wonderful. Thank you for this very nice post. And Kate... I agree with you, I don't care if something has been done before or not... a good fantasy should have no restrictions as to its source. And I think you have a very good formula for presenting good ideas and that is to say "oh, this is my fantasy ballet" Or this is what I would like to see. Who can argue with that? And like you, I would never entertain the thought that I could do choreography... but I do suspect that the really great classical ballets did not start with choreography, they simply started on a whim or a flight of the imagination. I can't do choreography, but I can fly (in my imagination anyway) Thanks Kate.

Alexandra, I don't understand your use of the word "terror". If someone takes a story from the internet and does something lousy with it... it may last one day and people will not return to see it again. On the other hand, if the idea is used for something great, people will return again and again. So I just don't understand your use of the word terror. And Mel, the thing you are talking about is one of the reasons that I thought it would be good to put out some storylines. It seems so odd to me that ballet is going in the direction of no story line. Very odd. Without a story how can I have a connection with the individuals that I see on stage. This idea of abstract dance may be just an excuse for not using the imagination. But that is just a statement about my own bias in favor of storyline ballets... I love classic storylines. And Dirac, It may take some time to put together a storyline, but sometimes they can come "in a flash" and then it is just a matter of getting it down on paper. But I do understand your concern. I am very glad that I asked this question, this trend of no storyline... well, I hope it gets old in a hurry. I want to see things created that are more like the old classics. It shoud be possible, it must be possible.

I'm quite puzzled about something. Why not create new storylines for ballet right here on the internet? This thought came to me when I noticed all the creativity and brilliance of the people who post on this site. So I went ahead and put up a couple of posts that invited people to give their ideas on storylines. If I recall correctly, one was called "Lets create a new ballet". Now, I know how generous everyone is on this site in responding to posts, so I was quite puzzled when there was no interest in the post. (now, this is not a complaint... I am just asking this question out of curiousity) Why do you think there is no interest in creating something here on the internet? I have been thinking that maybe it might have something to do with copyright, since someone with a good idea may not want to put it out in the public domain. Or maybe it is because there are many ballet goers here that have seen too many new things that turned out to be rather lousy when performed onstage. Or maybe it is simply because this site is devoted to classical ballet and not "new things". So can anyone give me a hint as to what might be going on here. Its a puzzle to me. thanks

Took a little time to respond since I am setting up a new computer. I reread your responses Nadezhda and found more nice things there. Yes, I too notice a similarity in the classical ballet plots. One thing in particular that is very, very contemorary in the classics is the "No Boundaries" thing. These old plots start off in ordinary life but then somewhere along the way the story BREAKS THROUGH to some other dimension. No boundaries is VERY comtemporary. So much so that Ford has picked it up as thier latest slogan... "no boundaries". I would like to design a post that highlights the idea that classical ballet is comtemporary (as you say), and that modern dance is getting old in a hurry. It is kind of a funny outlook on the two, so I am tempted to say more about it, but enough is enough for now. And I think that we are both still within the context of the original question... why do you go to the ballet? Its really quite a hard question to get a handle on.... people know they like it, but it is hard to express the reason in words. Maybe someone else will be brave enough to give it a shot.

I certainly connected to all three of these replys. They are all really wonderful insights (almost gave me goose bumps!) Thanks so much, and I hope we can hear from more people on this... I am very fascinated by this subject. Sorry I missed that PBS special, sounds like it was a good one. (I'll watch for the re-run) So any ideas you have on this subject, big or small, please share them with us.

In a previous post (your favorite small thing) a number of people made reference to their own experience at the ballet with words such as "gives me a chill" and "gives me goose bumps". Now, wouldn't it be nice to know what is going on in that moment... or at least what is it that could cause such a moment of alertness and excitement? So what do you think is going on in these magical moments? Is it a mystery, or is there some reasonable explanation for it? I ask this question because I would think that anyone who performs or anyone who creates the ballet on stage would want to know... now, how do I go about giving this audience a "thrill"? Is it a mystery or can anyone explain just exactly what is going on that makes these chills and goose bumps?

BalletNut, thanks, I'll look for those differences when the conductor and dancers are on stage together. That will be fun. And Mel, this is really a cool expression. I have heard it in the East also, they say "its in the gap"... not in the action, but in the gap or the rest between the actions. But I like your version much better.

Since reading this thread I have taken more notice of the "pauses" or breaks between steps and the impact they have on me. Pauses are certainly "small things" so I would like to add one now that I noticed yesterday. It is from La Sylphide (from the film done by the Paris Opera Ballet company). The first time the Sylphide is with James she slips out through the fireplace stack, but later she comes back a second time and appears to James through a large window. Now, ordinary choreography would have her come in on the ledge, step on the table and come down to the floor, but this rendition has a nice pause in it. The Sylphide makes her way around the open window, stands on the ledge and then she leans against the wall for a short pause! This moment of leaning and looking at James has a lot in for me. It is like the Sylphide is saying "Here I am, I'm back, and I am quite comfortable here and I know just exactly what I am doing.... and I am not finished with you yet!!" I just laugh when I see it because there so much in that pause for me.

Oops, have to add one important thing to the previous post. There is the 3, love, hate and betrayal, BUT it is important to know that the Love or unity is the ultimate of the three. So the saying that "Love conquers all" is absolutely true and that truth accounts for the "goose bumps" that we get when the ballet ends in a triumph or a "happily ever after note". Life moves to that end.. a happy ending. Its true for everyone, absolutely everyone.

Yes Nedezhda, you and I are thinking about the same thing. I think you really "nailed it" when you talked about life in terms of these 3 things... you mentioned Love, Hate, and Betrayal. This is life, this is the Universe. The word Universe is made up of two things, Unity and Diversity and that is our world, that is our universe, that is life as we know it. Pure Love is the Unity and Hate upholds the diversity since hate repels or separates. Both love and hate are necessary for Uni-verse. There are separate peices (diversity), but held together as one universe by love. Love is the UNI and Hate is the VERSE. And what about betrayal??? Well, that is there also because Universe is esentually only one thing and NOT two... so it takes Deception (betrayal) to make two out of one (kind of like unity has to be deceived in order for diversity to exist) This quality of deception is shown most graphically in Swan Lake and in Odelle but as you say, it is also demonstrated by the betrayal in Giselle. So, you have recognized in your analysis of ballet the very deep fundamentals of life, and when you enjoy the ballet this knowledge just gets enlivened within you. It is life, it is your life and it is my life. Classical ballet is about life. It's wonderful, full of wonder and mystery. Thanks so much for sharing your insights on the basic elements in classical ballet. I think you really nailed it with your analysis.

That is a wonderful response Nadezhda. I think you expressed my own feelings on the classical productions. There is something there that is hard to define, but it IS there. Something deep that touches the soul. I suspect that there is a lot more to these classical stories than we know, because if we knew how this magic was created, we could make more of them... but for now it seems that the secret remains a secret. I also suspect that these are not just stories of the prince and princess, but they present a metaphor that awakens the deeper levels of our own inner life. So thank you so much for saying this thing "cannot explain why I love it"... since I have a hunch that many, many others have that same feeling. It would be nice to be able to unlock that mystery... and then ballet could really get back on track. It's a mystery, I think, it really is a hidden kind of thing... what is it about these stories that move us so deeply? Thanks again Nadezhda for your thoughtful reply to such a simple question.