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Tolkien and ballet


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#106 dancermom2

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Posted 12 March 2003 - 12:34 PM

Thank you for confirming my suspicions that the eldest son got a name but Aragorn and Arwen's daughters are just un-named! My daughter was a little miffed over that one!

#107 Mel Johnson

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Posted 12 March 2003 - 03:22 PM

Remember that Tolkien was primarily interested in what he termed the First and Second Ages, which is the material for The Silmarillion. As the Elves passed from Middle-Earth he grew less and less interested, and only finished the portions of his Third Age draft material that affected the story of LoTR directly. The death of Aragorn must have assurances that the succession of the United Crowns of Gondor and Arnor is secure, so the successor must be named. Unless one of the daughters married an Elf or something, Tolkien wouldn't have been interested in taking the time to name them, but he never got to that stage. Remember, the History of Middle Earth books (HoME) are only drafts of material that Tolkien never really finalized. Christopher is apparently sitting on a good deal more, but it's not yet published, or perhaps publishable! Marquette University has a great deal of Tolkien manuscript material and notes which are worth examining for the truly committed Tolkien scholar.

#108 BattementCloche

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Posted 07 April 2003 - 11:15 AM

My gosh! My heart started beating a million miles a minute when I saw the title of this thread! I am a devout Tolkien fan – though perhaps not as much as you, Major Mel ;)– and I have wanted for a long time to talk to other fans!

I am such a fan that I taught myself speak Elvish (both languages – Quenya and Sindarin), and write in both the Tengwar (Elvish letters) and the Certhas Daeron, used by the Dwarves, also called the Cirth, or Runes. I have watched the Fellowship of the Ring exactly 16 times, working on the 17th, and know the script, word for word, by heart. (Introduction: “The world is changed. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air. Much that once was is lost. For none now live, who remember it.
It began with the forging of the great rings. Three were given to the Elves…Seven to the Dwarf lords…And nine. Nine rings were gifted to the race of Men, who above all else, desire power.
In the land of Mordor, in the fire of Mount Doom, the Dark Lord Sauron forged, in secret, a master ring to control all others. Into this ring he poured his cruelty, his malice, and his will to dominate all life. One Ring To Rule Them All… :)) I am in the process of learning the history of Middle-earth by heart. I am at ‘Year 1200 of the Second Age: Sauron endeavours to seduce the Eldar. Gil-Galad refuses to treat with him; but the smiths of Eregion are won over. The Númenoreans begin to make permanent havens.’ :)

Major Mel, you wrote: “The Barrow-Wights are the undead spirits of an ancient race of men who inhabited Eriador during in the Second Age. They died in driving Sauron from their kingdom and assume any intruders are his agents. That's why their swords glow in the presence of orcs or the Ringwraiths.” In fact, it’s the swords of Elven-make that glow blue in the presence of Orcs or Goblins. Sting, Bilbo’s sword, later handed down to Frodo, and Glamdring, Gandalf’s sword glow for the first recorded time in the Chamber of Records in Moria, but not the swords that Pippin, Sam, and Merry got in the Barrows. I believe that in The Hobbit, Thorin Oakenshield (the Dwarf) had Glamdring’s mate, which also glowed blue in the presence of Orcs or Goblins.

As for the part of The Fellowship of the Ring where Legolas walked on the snow (viewed from the back), I thought that he looked rather cautious and insecure, like he was going to slip. He kind of shuffled his feet, and looked down when he walked. At all other times, however, he did look very secure when he was walking. I was amazed by how secure he seemed when he did the ‘shield-surfing’ in The Two Towers! Of course, he had a harness attached to him, but still, ‘surfing’ on a shield can’t have been easy! I must admit that I am smitten with him *blush*… he’s very ‘Elvish’ when it comes to looks (the Elves are supposed to be the most beautiful and fair of all beings), except for his eyebrows! They should have dyed those to match his hair colour – and he looks so much nicer with long blonde hair than with his natural hair colour and style…

I think that they should definitely put the person who played Haldir in the cast list on ‘The Official Two Towers Website.’ They have the person who played Celeborn, but not Haldir! And Celeborn only says “Eight there are here, but nine there set out from Rivendell. Tell me, where is Gandalf? for I much desire to speak with him.” Is that worth putting in over Haldir, who played an important role, especially in The Two Towers?

Anyway, this post is getting long, so bye for now!

——————————

—Séreméla Lúthien Sáralondë Melwasúl—

***Stray but a little, and you will fail.***
—Galadriel
***"I'm going to Mordor alone, Sam." "Of course you are, and I'm coming with you!"***
—Frodo and Sam
***Hobbits really are amazing creatures. You can learn all there is to know about them in a month, but after a hundred years, they can still surprise you.***
—Gandalf

#109 SpiritIvy

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Posted 07 April 2003 - 11:41 AM

Nice to see another Tolkien fan around here :D Welcome to the conversation, BattementCloche

I do believe you know more about this than me... lol. I'm just now really getting into Sindarin, though I know bits an peices of Quenya as well. I'm not very good yet though. It's a fun hobby, even though I don't have time for it most of the time. Though, I have to say I've seen the Fellowship more times than you have. I lost count, but it's over 20 times. Oh the joy of being homeschooled- I can watch LOTR while doing schoolwork *grins*

#110 BilboBaggins

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Posted 07 April 2003 - 12:16 PM

Have you two discovered http://www.minastirith.com?

I think of it as the "Ballet Alert" of Tolkien ... in depth discussion, a drive for accuracy and a love of the art ....:D

Anyway, I can't believe you have time for ballet, school, and LOtR ... in one day!!

BB

#111 Mel Johnson

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Posted 07 April 2003 - 02:25 PM

You're right about the Barrow-blades - I was just working off the top of my head. During the War of the Last Alliance, many men carried Elvish blades, in spite of their long rivalry.

#112 SpiritIvy

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Posted 07 April 2003 - 02:30 PM

Thanks for the link! I haven't seen it before.

Well I'm homeschooled, which gives me some freedom, and I stopped taking ballet about a month ago. I'm in cheerleading now which is only 3 times a week opposed to ballet which seemed to be 'round the clock. I have quite a bit more time on my hands now that I don't have ballet, so I can devote more of my time to my obsessions- Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings...

#113 Guest_dance4life87_*

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Posted 07 April 2003 - 02:37 PM

spirit ivy we are soo much alike, im homeschooled and I Love harry potter and LOTR, I ike LOTR more though and we both dance too!

#114 balletstar811

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Posted 07 April 2003 - 05:28 PM

Is the Osgiliath a river??

#115 Mel Johnson

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Posted 07 April 2003 - 07:23 PM

Osgiliath is a city on the Anduin River halfway between Minas Tirith and Mordor. It's in a valley, so it's very hard to defend and has been repeatedly laid waste by orcs, along with the rest of Ithilien, of which it is the principal city.

#116 BattementCloche

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Posted 08 April 2003 - 06:55 AM

Boy, I wish that my mother let me watch it while doing my schoolwork! Though, she does let me use LoTR for my copywork and memory...I've memorized three poems/song from it this week:D

About the Elvish dancing, here is 'A part of the Lay of Leithian' or 'The Lay of Lúthien', as chanted by Aragorn in the books...

The leaves were long, the grass was green,
The hemlock-umbels tall and fair,
And in the glade a light was seen
Of stars in shadow shimmering.
Tinúviel was dancing there
To music of a pipe unseen,
And light of stars was in her hair,
And in her raiment glimmering.

There Beren came from mountains cold,
And lost he wandered under leaves,
And where the Elven-river rolled
He walked alone and sorrowing.
He peered between the hemlock-leaves
And saw in wonder flowers of gold
Upon her mantle and her sleeves,
And her hair like shadow following.

Enchantment healed his weary feet
That over hills were doomed to roam;
And forth he hastened, strong and fleet,
And grasped at moonbeams glistening.
Through woven woods in Elvenhome
She lightly fled on dancing feet,
And left him lonely still to roam
In the silent forest listening.

He heard there oft the flying sound
Of feet as light as linden-leaves,
Or music welling underground,
In hidden hollows quavering.
Now withered lay the hemlock-sheaves,
And one by one with sighing sound
Whispering fell the beechen leaves
In the wintry woodland wavering.

He sought her ever, wandering far
Where leaves of years were thickly strewn,
By light of moon and ray of star
In frosty heavens shivering.
Her mantle glinted in the moon,
As on a hill-top high and far
She danced, and at her feet was strewn
A mist of silver quivering.

When winter passed, she came again,
And her song released the sudden spring,
Like rising lark, and falling rain,
And melting water bubbling.
He saw the elven-flowers spring
About her feet, and healed again
He longed by her to dance and sing
Upon the grass untroubling.

Again she fled, but swift he came.
Tinúviel! Tinúviel!
He called her by her elvish name;
And there she halted listening.
One moment stood she, and a spell
His voice laid on her: Beren came,
And doom fell on Tinúviel
That in his arms lay glistening.

As Beren looked into her eyes
Within the shadows of her hair,
The trembling starlight of the skies
He was there mirrored shimmering.
Tinúviel the elven-fair,
Immortal maiden elven-wise,
About him cast her shadowy hair
And arms like silver glimmering.

Long was the way that fate them bore,
O’er stony mountains cold and grey,
Through halls of iron and darkling door,
And woods of nightshade morrowless.
The Sundering Seas between them lay,
And yet at last they met once more,
And long ago they passed away
In the forest singing sorrowless.

Tinúviel is a poetic name for Nightingale, and when Beren first called Lúthien that when he met her in the forest of Neldoreth (above), it stuck.:)

Bilbo Baggins, you said (to SpiritIvy, I think) that you couldn't believe she had time for school, ballet, and LoTR in one day? I homeschool as well (sorry if I already said that:)) and usually I do about 2 hours of work in one day, and get done more than people who go to school do:D. It's because instead of having a teacher stand up and lecture the entire class, then leave no time to do actual work, and have a pile of homework, I do what I know how to, and if I have trouble, then my mother helps me. I leave at 1 o'clock on Tuesdays and walk to the ballet studio - I couldn't do that at school!!!

Sorry, I got off topic. Well, I have to have lunch and then go to ballet, so namárië!

——————————

—Séreméla Lúthien Sáralondë Melwasúl—

P.S. - That's my name in Elvish. If you go to http://www.chriswetherell.com/elf/ you can get your own Elven name! There's also hobbit names - mine is Orangeblossom Rosy-Posy Burrows Chubb!

***May it serve you well! ***
—The Elves—

***You are wise and fearless and fair, Lady Galadriel. ***
—Frodo—


***No more, no more! ***
—The Elves—

***I do not foretell, for all foretelling is now in vain; on the one hand lies darkness, and on the other only hope.***
—Lady Galadriel—

#117 SpiritIvy

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Posted 08 April 2003 - 08:06 AM

BattementCloche, have you seen the extended DVD of the Fellowship of the Ring? If you haven't I would HIGHLY reccomend that you go to Blockbuster ASAP and get it.

Aragorn sings a part of 'The Lay of Luthien' in one of the added bonus scenes. He sings it in Elvish so I'm not sure if it is a real verse from the real poem, but it's really pretty cool. That's not all- the extended DVD has countless extended scenes. Bilbo's party, Rivendell, The Council of Elrond, Moria, Lothlorien, Galadriel's Mirror and countless other scenes are extended, to name a few of them anyway. There are also a few bonus scenes. One shows the hobbits at The Green Dragon, which is very amusing because Merry and Pippin get to sing on a tabletop :D Then they show more on the way to Rivendell, and in Rivendell there's a scene with Aragorn and Elrond and then another bonus scene when the Fellowship leaves.

*Kisses my copy of the Extended DVD*

I thought you'd be interested in it because many of the added scenes and extended scenes have to to with Aragorn, rather than Frodo. In one of the appendices disks that comes with the Extended version, they explain that for the theater cut version, they wanted the movie to be about Frodo as much as possible. Once they went back and added some of the deleted scenes, most tended to be about Aragorn and his history.

It's really interesting to see more of Aragorn's side of the story, I think it really adds a lot.

Random question now- about The Two Towers- does anyone know when it's going to be on video? I keep hearing June, and September for the extended version, but I don't know how reliable my sources are.

I'm already itching to get the extended copy of The Two Towers- I was watching The Two Towers trailer from lordoftherings.net and they showed some stuff that wasn't in the theater. Now I'm all interested and I want to see them!

#118 Guest_dance4life87_*

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Posted 08 April 2003 - 09:48 AM

well the fellowship of the ring came out to video and dvd in like i think july or august, so shouldn't it be the same with this film?

#119 BlackbirdBallerina

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Posted 08 April 2003 - 10:05 AM

Wow guys! This is an amazing thread. I love LOTR, especially the books, and this is really cool! My elvish name is Itarildë Lossëhelin. I just wanted to say thanks for some cool sites and info.

;)

#120 SpiritIvy

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Posted 08 April 2003 - 10:25 AM

My friend's Elvish name is also Itarilde. Mine Elvish name is Isilwen, which means Moon Maiden. I just played around with Elvish words and Elvish female name endings till I found one I really liked. I've never translated my real name, though it should be easy enough to do.


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