Meliss Posted October 22 Share Posted October 22 In an article by a ballet critic, there was such a passage about Godunov: Quote Although he performed his solo cleanly, Alexander Godunov's step-step-leap way of dancing and grunt-grunt-heave way of partnering continue to make him a stylistic stranger to a company that sees itself as more Kirov than Bolshoi. I'm afraid I don't quite understand what it means: " step-step-leap way of dancing" and "grunt-grunt-heave way of partnering". Can someone please explain? Link to comment
volcanohunter Posted October 22 Share Posted October 22 This suggests a lack of flow in dancing, as though choreography were chopped up into elements, with obvious preparations between them, rather than linked together into seamless phrases. Link to comment
FPF Posted October 22 Share Posted October 22 It also seems to imply that his partnering was very effortful, which would destroy the illusion of the ballerina's weightlessness. Link to comment
Meliss Posted October 23 Author Share Posted October 23 (edited) 23 hours ago, volcanohunter said: This suggests a lack of flow in dancing, as though choreography were chopped up into elements, with obvious preparations between them, rather than linked together into seamless phrases. 21 hours ago, FPF said: It also seems to imply that his partnering was very effortful, which would destroy the illusion of the ballerina's weightlessness. Thank you very much. I would really like to see confirmation of this opinion. If suddenly someone has a few minutes to watch the excerpt and mark the time where we can see the lack of flow , as well as the lifting of the partner with visible effort, I will be very grateful. https://yandex.ru/video/preview/6899692314292661343 But it's unlikely. Godunov moves perfectly and lifts even not small van Hamel easily enough. Another question is more interesting here - does the critic think that all the dancers in the Bolshoi Theater do not know how to move on stage and raise their partners? Edited October 23 by Meliss Link to comment
Helene Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 You’ve given no context for the criticism, ie, what performance he or she was watching. I don’t have time to watch the entire video now, but an example of what the critic was talking about is around 5:20, when he squats with his back to the camera — and the audience — to lift her. The critic was saying that the men in the Bolshoi had a common lifting technique that he found unrefined, compared to the men in the Kirov. Link to comment
Meliss Posted October 23 Author Share Posted October 23 (edited) 6 hours ago, Helene said: You’ve given no context for the criticism, ie, what performance he or she was watching. It was Raymonda. Quote I don’t have time to watch the entire video now, but an example of what the critic was talking about is around 5:20, when he squats with his back to the camera — and the audience — to lift her. Thank you very much! Well, I don't know. He lifted her up easily! 6 hours ago, Helene said: The critic was saying that the men in the Bolshoi had a common lifting technique that he found unrefined, compared to the men in the Kirov. I wonder why our ballet critics don't know about this. And not only ours. https://yandex.ru/video/preview/12441204650895389624 39.03 - It's much worse. And this is the Mariinsky. Edited October 23 by Meliss Link to comment
volcanohunter Posted October 24 Share Posted October 24 15 hours ago, Meliss said: does the critic think that all the dancers in the Bolshoi Theater do not know how to move on stage and raise their partners? I was minimally familiar with the Bolshoi dancers of Godunov's generation, but I was well acquainted with Bolshoi principals from several generations later. Some of the men made transitional steps sing and lifted their partners seamlessly, as though they weighed as little as tissue paper. Others looked good in the air, but had no sense of phrasing whatsoever and/or made the mechanics of partnering all too visible. I've seen even tall, strapping dancers perform overhead lifts in stages, rather than as a single, smooth motion. The critic's general impression of Bolshoi dancers may have been influenced by the partnering in Grigorovich ballets, which is not subtle and often resembles weightlifting. Link to comment
Helene Posted October 24 Share Posted October 24 32 minutes ago, volcanohunter said: The critic's general impression of Bolshoi dancers may have been influenced by the partnering in Grigorovich ballets, which is not subtle and often resembles weightlifting. I don't know enough about the Bolshoi and Mariinsky tours to the US, but I was wondering whether the big heroic roles and lots of Don Q's skewed the partnering style. Spartacus wasn't meant to be prince-like. Link to comment
volcanohunter Posted October 24 Share Posted October 24 3 hours ago, Helene said: I don't know enough about the Bolshoi and Mariinsky tours to the US, but I was wondering whether the big heroic roles and lots of Don Q's skewed the partnering style. Spartacus wasn't meant to be prince-like. The premiere of Baryshnikov's Raymonda Divertissement for ABT took place in 1980, and it was telecast in 1981. Of course, the most recent Bolshoi tour of North America had taken place in 1979, and it was Grigorovich-heavy: The Stone Flower, Legend of Love, Spartacus, Romeo and Juliet and Grigorovich's production of Swan Lake. I don't doubt that it was still fresh in the minds of American critics. Link to comment
On Pointe Posted October 24 Share Posted October 24 There was a huge shift in phrasing and technique at the Bolshoi from the 1960s into the 1980's, when they began touring in the west, and western companies toured in the Soviet Union. It wasn't just the male dancers. Even Plisetskaya had a way of just stepping between the big moments rather than dancing through the phrase. They became much more fluid after they got out more, so to speak. (And they lost their minds when they got a good look at Sylvie Guillem.). There was also a bit of cross-pollination with the Kirov. There are many YouTube videos where you can see the old Bolshoi style, and how it evolved rapidly during that period. Godunov had vestiges of the old style when he danced classical roles. But he was capable of a more contemporary approach when he danced newer works. Link to comment
Meliss Posted October 25 Author Share Posted October 25 On 10/24/2024 at 7:35 AM, volcanohunter said: The critic's general impression of Bolshoi dancers may have been influenced by the partnering in Grigorovich ballets, which is not subtle and often resembles weightlifting. On 10/24/2024 at 8:10 AM, Helene said: I don't know enough about the Bolshoi and Mariinsky tours to the US, but I was wondering whether the big heroic roles and lots of Don Q's skewed the partnering style. Spartacus wasn't meant to be prince-like. 19 hours ago, On Pointe said: There are many YouTube videos where you can see the old Bolshoi style, and how it evolved rapidly during that period. Godunov had vestiges of the old style when he danced classical roles. But he was capable of a more contemporary approach when he danced newer works. Everything was fine with Godunov's smoothness, plasticity, and supports. It is a pity that we cannot see Godunov in the classical ballets of the Bolshoi Theater, so that you can be convinced of this. His teacher-tutor at the Bolshoi Theatre danced at the Mariinsky Theatre after the Vaganov School. Grigorovich, by the way, too. Link to comment
volcanohunter Posted October 26 Share Posted October 26 (edited) Godunov's repertoire at the Bolshoi was fairly small. His classical roles were few: Albrecht in Giselle, Solor in La Bayadère, Siegfried and the pas de trois in Swan Lake, plus Basilio in Don Quixote, which is a demi-caractère role that many ballet princes never dance. Apparently, he never danced a leading role in The Sleeping Beauty. The complete Raymonda was not performed at the Bolshoi between 1966 and 1984. The grand pas from Paquita appears to have absent from the Bolshoi repertoire for nearly a century. (The company's second production of the ballet was staged in 1889, and the grand pas reappeared only in 1988.) Bournonville was completely alien to the Bolshoi at the time, and I've seen no evidence that Godunov could have managed it. https://archive.bolshoi.ru/entity/CHARACTER?sa-person=4205840 Edited October 26 by volcanohunter Link to comment
Meliss Posted October 26 Author Share Posted October 26 6 hours ago, volcanohunter said: His classical roles were few: Albrecht in Giselle, Solor in La Bayadère, Siegfried and the pas de trois in Swan Lake, plus Basilio in Don Quixote, which is a demi-caractère role that many ballet princes never dance. It's not the quantity that matters, but the quality. He was the perfect Siegfried performer, the amazing Albrecht and the magnificent Solor. And a brilliant Basil - which only highlights the breadth of his creative range. 6 hours ago, volcanohunter said: and I've seen no evidence that Godunov could have managed it. It's better not to talk about what roles he COULD have danced... Link to comment
Helene Posted October 26 Share Posted October 26 From what I'd seen of him in person and on film, I wouldn't describe him as perfect, amazing, or magnificent, although I thought he was well-matched with van Hamel. We all get to like different things. The only people whose opinions matter are the company directors who hire dancers, or, if they go out on their own instead, the people who finance them, whether that be sponsors and/or the public and/or their own bank accounts. In the limited number of films he made in America, I thought he was a better actor than dancer. Link to comment
volcanohunter Posted October 26 Share Posted October 26 How can glowing assessments of Godunov's performances be made in 2024, if films of them do not exist? What I am fairly confident in saying is that based on videos of Godunov that do exist, he did not have the technical means for the fleet and intricate footwork, along with the upper body that betrays no exertion, which Bournonville demands. These were not aspects of ballet technique that the Bolshoi was interested in developing or refining. (As it stands, it first performed a Bournonville ballet 158 years after it was created.) Nor, on the basis of the Raymonda telecast, do I think he was a distinguished classicist. This isn't especially surprising, given that his repertoire consisted primarily of dramatic ballets staged in the 1960s and '70s. Link to comment
Meliss Posted October 26 Author Share Posted October 26 12 hours ago, Helene said: The only people whose opinions matter are the company directors who hire dancers, Oh yes, and Lucia Chase, who knew ballet perfectly, for some reason signed a contract with him, where the amounts owed to him were higher than those of Baryshnikov and all the other stars. Why would that be?) Link to comment
Meliss Posted October 26 Author Share Posted October 26 12 hours ago, volcanohunter said: How can glowing assessments of Godunov's performances be made in 2024, if films of them do not exist? The reviews of ballet critics who saw him in these performances do exist. In addition, there are short excerpts from "Swan Lake" and "Giselle". And Don Quixote. I am interested to know if American ballet critics shared your opinion about his performance in Raymonda. In the article I quoted here, it is noted that he danced cleanly. Link to comment
Helene Posted October 26 Share Posted October 26 Lucia Chase also knew how to market and that she needed a tall partner for Gregory and van Hamel. Godunov fit the bill, although the marketing appeal for defectors was diminishing. Link to comment
volcanohunter Posted October 26 Share Posted October 26 Both Godunov and ABT denied the rumors about his supposedly enormous salary. ("Godunov Quits Ballet Theater," New York Times, 21 November 1979.) Link to comment
Meliss Posted October 26 Author Share Posted October 26 2 hours ago, Helene said: she needed a tall partner for Gregory and van Hamel. I believe she needed not only tall, but also a star-quality dancer. Link to comment
Meliss Posted October 26 Author Share Posted October 26 57 minutes ago, volcanohunter said: Both Godunov and ABT denied the rumors about his supposedly enormous salary. ("Godunov Quits Ballet Theater," New York Times, 21 November 1979.) Yes, they did, but they also preferred to keep the sum in secret. Evidently it was not much less than it was supposed). Link to comment
Helene Posted October 26 Share Posted October 26 The only payments made public, especially then, were the mandatory top salaries reported on the IRS tax forms for non-profits: in the US, as a rule, individual compensation is not disclosed by the employers, unless it will show up on the 990. If Godunov was not among the top X earners on the payroll . I'm not sure what the numbers and rules were then, but at this time, it's top five who aren't (Board) directors and officers and "key employees." (The amounts surely would have been lower in the 1970's.) *List all of the organization’s current officers, directors, trustees (whether individuals or organizations), regardless of amount of compensation. Enter -0- in columns (D), (E), and (F) if no compensation was paid. • List all of the organization’s current key employees, if any. See the instructions for definition of “key employee.” • List the organization’s five current highest compensated employees (other than an officer, director, trustee, or key employee) who received reportable compensation (box 5 of Form W-2, box 6 of Form 1099-MISC, and/or box 1 of Form 1099-NEC) of more than $100,000 from the organization and any related organizations. • List all of the organization’s former officers, key employees, and highest compensated employees who received more than $100,000 of reportable compensation from the organization and any related organizations. • List all of the organization’s former directors or trustees that received, in the capacity as a former director or trustee of the organization, more than $10,000 of reportable compensation from the organization and any related organizations. A "key employee" is one who manages a percentage of the company assets, and it wouldn't have applied to Godunov. In the first year and all other full years he worked for ABT, his earnings from the company would have been evaluated under bullet point #2. The year he stopped being on the payroll, his earnings would have been evaluate under bullet point #3. if he had been one of the five highest compensated employees at ABT, his compensation would be public knowledge. Link to comment
volcanohunter Posted October 26 Share Posted October 26 (edited) As a tax-exempt organization, ABT must be financially transparent. People considering making a donation to a ballet company are entitled to know how the organization spends its money. As Helene explained, if Godunov's salary really had been as high as it was rumored to be, journalists could have confirmed this after the company submitted its annual financial information to the Internal Revenue Service. (For example, I can look at the form from 2010 and see that the salary of principal dancer Paloma Herrera was $171,529 that year. At that point she was in her 20th season with the company, meaning that she had both rank and seniority.) https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/131882106 Edited October 27 by volcanohunter Link to comment
Helene Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 There's also information on the Internal Revenue Service site, starting with 2015: https://apps.irs.gov/app/eos/details/ EIN (Employer Identification Number [Tax ID]): 131882106, Ballet Theatre Foundation. Here's the relevant section from 2015, where the only dancer on the list is Gillian Murphy: There are eight people listed with compensation. The first three are officers, including the Artistic Director, and they have to be listed regardless of compensation, and then the five employees with the largest compensation. There are also pages of board listings (trustees), who weren't compensated, and they, too, had to be listed by law. Link to comment
Meliss Posted October 28 Author Share Posted October 28 On 10/27/2024 at 1:43 AM, Helene said: if he had been one of the five highest compensated employees at ABT, his compensation would be public knowledge. How can we know he had not been if we can't see the documents? I suppose he had been. Link to comment
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