Meliss Posted June 23 Author Share Posted June 23 3 hours ago, Helene said: Thank you for the link, @Meliss. That looks like a transitional time after many of the Principals from the ‘70’s, like Eleanor D’Antuono, Erik Bruhn, Carla Fracci, Ted Kivitt, Sallie Wilson, and John Prinz (who joined NYCB), left the company, along with Gelsey Kirkland. Her partner in drugs, Patrick Bissell, was still at least listed. He was considered one of the most talented male dancers of his time. He was important enough to the Company to keep hiring back despite his drug use and arrest and being in and out of drug rehab. He was the dance equivalent of skating’s Christopher Bowman: all of the talent vs. all of the drugs. It was from the list of soloists that Baryshnikov saw as the future, except for Susan Jaffe, still in the corps, and whom he pushed, many of them women, but among the men, La Fosse, who danced a lot of Baryshnikov’s roles and later left for NYCB, Ross Stratton, and Johann Renvall, who danced Prodigal Son with the Swedish Royal Ballet before joining ABT, and danced with Godunov in Godunov’s side projects. They were treated as de facto Principals, although, like in many companies, their titles lagged behind. (Plus, Soloists were compensated under the union contract, unlike Principals, who negotiated contracts.) To go off topic for a moment, looking at the roster, I recognize two corps dancers, Patrick Hinson and David Moore, who later joined NYCB, and Amy Rose, who later became a soloist with ABT and left to dance with Pacific Northwest Ballet. I saw her dance with both companies, and she was a lovely dancer. Thank you. It would be interesting to discuss the work of Baryshnikov as the art director of ABT. Link to comment
Helene Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 Baryshnikov did not get a lot of love as Artistic Director, between focusing on the corps, bringing up dancers that were considered sub-par compared to the stars of the past, losing dancers that people loved along the way, and having a right-hand man, Charles France, whom some despised. Lucia Chase spent a lot of her own money to keep the company afloat, even during the dance boom of the '70's. ABT toured three months of the year during that time, and she was able to raise money from people across the country, where ABT was considered a "home" company. Baryshnikov had Board of Director support, though, even when he tried to resign only a few years into his tenure. According to Bujones, they arranged with him mostly to be on the masthead, so he was an important name for the Board at that time. (I quote Bujones, because he is an official source, per Ballet Alert! rules, and not unofficial discussions.) Fundraising isn't for everyone. Almost all new Artistic Directors lose dancers after the first year, since dancers' contracts are for a year, and there's no obligation to renew them, if the AD doesn't want them in the company. Most dancers, even if they know a change is coming and who is coming, know in time to not renew their contracts if they choose. Some might sign to have a job for a year, during which time they can test the waters and/try to line up another job. Some sign and find a different job in the shuffle that usually happens during the summer, when someone leaves or retires from another country unexpectedly, That turnover isn't in itself an indication of bad directorship: faced with change, some people decide to switch professions or are approached with opportunities in and out of the dance world that they wouldn't have through of doing until offered. If a choreographer decides that they will no longer allow a company to dance their rep -- typically rights are owned by the choreographer, although some Artistic Director-choreographers give their rights to their companies -- a dancer who loves that rep or choreographer may move. In Europe there were companies that changed from classical companies to contemporary, choreographer-driven companies, like the national dance company in Spain, from Plisetskaya to Nacho Duato, and the dancers said "No thank you" to the change in rep and/or they were replaced by dancers who did that rep. There were people who appreciated that under Baryshnikov the corps became more disciplined in the classics, and most people have some people who like and/or respect them: even Charles France. Baryshnikov was golden for the people who got opportunities they never had before. The future after Baryshnikov seemed pretty grim at the time, with more than usual financial pressure on the company, not because he was a particularly good Artistic Director. Link to comment
Marta Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 On 6/22/2024 at 5:09 AM, volcanohunter said: There are a couple of reasons why the Son is traditionally a role for shorter dancers. His solo choreography--the rapid jumps, fast, corkscrew pirouettes and punchy dynamics--are easier for a dancer with shorter limbs to accomplish. That's simply physics. In ballet height is also traditionally an indicator of age, as vocal range is in opera. There's a reason why the dancers who portray Siegfried's mother or Lord Capulet are usually very tall. Conversely the Son's short stature suggests that he is very young and naive. Also, his encounter with the Siren is extremely effective when she is taller than he is. The audience understands that he is completely outmatched by her. This is not a recent idea. The original Siren, Felia Doubrovska, was among the tallest ballerinas of her time, and even 95 years later she would be considered above-average in height for a female dancer. She needs to have very long legs and should tower above the Son on pointe. Very effective clips. Just wanted to add that Balanchine also said "short son, tall Siren". Link to comment
dirac Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 In fairness to Balanchine and Ashton, even if they had been deeply invested in male dancing, the danseur was not as crucial to the tradition as they inherited it and Ashton in Britain and Balanchine in America were working in cultures where the stigma against dancing men, especially ballet dancing men, was very great and limited the pool of candidates. Link to comment
Meliss Posted June 24 Author Share Posted June 24 14 hours ago, Helene said: Baryshnikov did not get a lot of love as Artistic Director, between focusing on the corps, bringing up dancers that were considered sub-par compared to the stars of the past, losing dancers that people loved along the way, and having a right-hand man, Charles France, whom some despised. I wonder what his colleagues thought of him as a person. I got the impression that he was too jealous of the success of others. Take the story of Bujones and Petit. Or the book by Gelsey Kirkland, where she writes how Baryshnikov called her names for coming on stage, interrupting the applause addressed to him. A separate story is the dismissal of Godunov with a blatantly false explanation of the reasons for the press: "''I just suggested he take a leave of absence, since his repertory was very limited. For the next year 'Giselle' and 'Swan Lake,' which he danced, will go to sleep for a while. I felt he wouldn't have enough to dance.'' First of all, Godunov danced not only those two ballets. He also wanted new roles. But Misha couldn't tell the press what Tchernichova said in her book "Dancing on water: a life in ballet, from the Kirov to the ABT"- that he resented Godunov's success with the public (p.209).https://archive.org/details/dancingonwaterli0000tche/page/208/mode/2up She also says that Godunov resisted learning any new choreography. I don't believe it, as she gives no facts and what Godunov says about it in Rosen's film contradicts her words. Godunov danced a lot of modern choreography, why should he be against it? Link to comment
Helene Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 We’ll have to wait until the dancers tell us what they thought of Baryshnikov as a person, if they ever do. It was a big transitional period between the founders of 20th century companies and their successors, by which time they’d stopped being troupes and started to be established institutions. The qualities needed to be successful to run institutions aren’t always the same as those needed to create companies, and they aren’t often the same as those needed to become a male star dancer, the typical successor to company founders and those smaller companies trying to make their way into prominence. It is difficult to go from colleague to boss, especially directly from colleague to boss, or to do both at the same time like Martins at NYCB and Baryshnikov. Balanchine may have liked the bells and whistles that came with being part of an institution, mostly having a robust school from which he could pick and choose dancers, but he bristled under it, and when things didn’t go his way — a strike vote, a vote against traveling to Germany to film ballets as examples — he’d threaten to take a group of true believers to Switzerland to form a new company over which he’d have total control. (And where there was a social safety net that made the financial, including benefits part, moot.) Long before Balanchine was no longer running NYCB, the company and school finances had already shifted from almost exclusive private support of very wealthy and political influential men to institutional support, primarily the Ford Foundation, secured by those wealthy and politically influential men, and surviving the lack of involvement or death of those specific men. (Including Kirsten, who masterminded the plan that made him functionally obsolete, seemingly to his surprise. Duberman described a lot of this in his Kirsten bio.) As a friend of mine is wont to say, “And if someone else pays for it, that’s even better.” That was not the case with ABT: if ABT struggled financially under Chase as she aged post dance boom, it’s had better years and more worse years since then. Boards can shift alliances, but one of the most difficult paths in all institutions is succession from the founder. Even a Board that is the most supportive and hasn’t interfered faces trying to plan for succession, particularly when the founder ages and/or has health issues. There hasn’t been any definitive narrative about why the ABT Board acted the way it did or how the Board alliances shifted until they pushed out Chase, but Baryshnikov was the shiniest star around, NY-based, a recent member of the company, a male, and Russian-born and trained: despite the beloved principals — with devoted followings — who were trained in equally illustrious traditions — Danish, Italian, British, French — since the company was dancing more full-length Russian classics, Russian was still considered a “realer” deal, and Baryshnikov fit their bill to a t. Link to comment
Meliss Posted June 24 Author Share Posted June 24 7 hours ago, Helene said: We’ll have to wait until the dancers tell us what they thought of Baryshnikov as a person, if they ever do. It was a big transitional period between the founders of 20th century companies and their successors, by which time they’d stopped being troupes and started to be established institutions. The qualities needed to be successful to run institutions aren’t always the same as those needed to create companies, and they aren’t often the same as those needed to become a male star dancer, the typical successor to company founders and those smaller companies trying to make their way into prominence. It is difficult to go from colleague to boss, especially directly from colleague to boss, or to do both at the same time like Martins at NYCB and Baryshnikov. Balanchine may have liked the bells and whistles that came with being part of an institution, mostly having a robust school from which he could pick and choose dancers, but he bristled under it, and when things didn’t go his way — a strike vote, a vote against traveling to Germany to film ballets as examples — he’d threaten to take a group of true believers to Switzerland to form a new company over which he’d have total control. (And where there was a social safety net that made the financial, including benefits part, moot.) Long before Balanchine was no longer running NYCB, the company and school finances had already shifted from almost exclusive private support of very wealthy and political influential men to institutional support, primarily the Ford Foundation, secured by those wealthy and politically influential men, and surviving the lack of involvement or death of those specific men. (Including Kirsten, who masterminded the plan that made him functionally obsolete, seemingly to his surprise. Duberman described a lot of this in his Kirsten bio.) As a friend of mine is wont to say, “And if someone else pays for it, that’s even better.” That was not the case with ABT: if ABT struggled financially under Chase as she aged post dance boom, it’s had better years and more worse years since then. Boards can shift alliances, but one of the most difficult paths in all institutions is succession from the founder. Even a Board that is the most supportive and hasn’t interfered faces trying to plan for succession, particularly when the founder ages and/or has health issues. There hasn’t been any definitive narrative about why the ABT Board acted the way it did or how the Board alliances shifted until they pushed out Chase, but Baryshnikov was the shiniest star around, NY-based, a recent member of the company, a male, and Russian-born and trained: despite the beloved principals — with devoted followings — who were trained in equally illustrious traditions — Danish, Italian, British, French — since the company was dancing more full-length Russian classics, Russian was still considered a “realer” deal, and Baryshnikov fit their bill to a t. That's how Tchernichova wrote about it: "It was Krawitz who organized and directed the campaign to install Misha. ABT trustee Justin Colin was also a great supporter of Misha; he'd even loaned him an apartment on Park Avenue. Remi, on the other hand, thought that he was too young to direct, but I tried to persuade her, until she offered at least her token support; I think she was simply grateful for any prospective way to get him away from NYCB. Krawitz told me that I had to talk to the dancers, prepare them. We needed their consensus. It wasn't just a question of filling Lucia's shoes: not only the director would change, but the entire concept of the company". It is also interesting: " His invaluable champion Remi Saunder had always been opposed to his joining NYCB; it was her opinion, expressed openly to Misha, that Balanchine was humiliating him deliberately. I was sure that Misha wanted to return to ABT and the repertory in which he was supreme. But he had talked himself into a corner, vowing in some tactless interviews that he had no intention of ever returning to ABT and its old-fashioned ballets". Link to comment
On Pointe Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 5 hours ago, Meliss said: "His invaluable champion Remi Saunder had always been opposed to his joining NYCB; it was her opinion, expressed openly to Misha, that Balanchine was humiliating him deliberately. If that was Balanchine's intent, he succeeded when he put Baryshnikov in that horrendous costume for Prodigal Son. It's a wonder that Misha didn't take a pair of scissors to that horror. Nureyev would have. Link to comment
volcanohunter Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 Amanda McKerrow and John Gardner were interviewed about Baryshnikov in the wake of his resignation from ABT. https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1990-03-04-ca-2837-story.html Link to comment
Meliss Posted June 25 Author Share Posted June 25 3 hours ago, On Pointe said: If that was Balanchine's intent, he succeeded when he put Baryshnikov in that horrendous costume for Prodigal Son. It's a wonder that Misha didn't take a pair of scissors to that horror. Nureyev would have. I don't think Balanchine wanted to humiliate anyone. Remy Saunder was generally a peculiar person. Link to comment
Helene Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 Was this costume different than the one all Prodigals wear? Link to comment
Meliss Posted June 25 Author Share Posted June 25 3 hours ago, volcanohunter said: Amanda McKerrow and John Gardner were interviewed about Baryshnikov in the wake of his resignation from ABT. https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1990-03-04-ca-2837-story.html It is normal when talented corps de ballet artists are given a chance to advance. But it's not normal that an artistic director wants to get rid of real stars. Link to comment
Helene Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 It is normal for dancers in to leave or not be renewed when they don’t fulfill the vision and requirements of an Artistic Director, and often a new Artistic Director has different goals than the one he or she replaced. It is normal for dancers who feel sidelined because they are cast in less, not given new roles, not included in the rep they want, or aren’t interested in the new rep to be unhappy and leave. Stars or not. Whether it’s a good idea from a marketing or audience perspective can impact a company when it happens, but Artistic Directors make questionable decisions often, and, as audiences, we get to vote with our feet, cherry pick, give up subscriptions, etc., if we feel strongly enough. One thing that I’ve never seen denied is that Godunov had an alcohol problem. Unlike Kirkland and Bissell, where the effects of their drug use was visible in their performances, I don’t remember reading that his alcoholism was apparent in his performances, but alcoholic employees are often problematic in workplaces, which a ballet companies are, and can eventually negate whatever star qualities the person brings. It’s probably safe to say that dancers whose careers were fulfilled and who grew because of Baryshnikov’s policies, and those who thrived in the atmosphere he created were likely to be happy with him, and dancers who did not thrive were not happy with him. That’s a separate issue from how outsiders, ie, audiences, fans, critics, company watchers, thought about him as an artistic director, and those were often less than glowing, based on our opinions of casting, hiring, rep, performance quality, etc. Link to comment
Meliss Posted June 25 Author Share Posted June 25 (edited) 3 hours ago, Helene said: One thing that I’ve never seen denied is that Godunov had an alcohol problem. Unlike Kirkland and Bissell, where the effects of their drug use was visible in their performances, I don’t remember reading that his alcoholism was apparent in his performances, but alcoholic employees are often problematic in workplaces, which a ballet companies are, and can eventually negate whatever star qualities the person brings. Another interesting question. Many actors and ballet dancers drink, but only Godunov is spoken of as an alcoholic. I wonder why. He never performed drunk. The director of his latest film, The Zone, stated that he had never seen Godunov drink excessively. I am very interested in whether there is a diagnosis of alcoholism in his medical record. I doubt it very much. By the way, his doctor, Maurice Levy, is still working. He could reveal this secret, but it seems that they are forbidden to disclose such information. Edited June 25 by Meliss Link to comment
California Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 5 hours ago, Helene said: Was this costume different than the one all Prodigals wear? If you search Google-images for Prodigal Son, you can see a range of costumes. None have the awful thing Baryshnikov wore, which included some "cut-offs" along with the usual costume: https://kr.pinterest.com/pin/new-york-city-ballet-production-of-prodigal-son-with-mikhail-baryshnikov-choreography-by-george-balanchine--9851692920634185/ https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=4e60fa2acf45c742&sca_upv=1&sxsrf=ADLYWIINQyYkI-9jV5VPScp_bJrxGFIR5g:1719321582607&q=prodigal+son+balanchine&udm=2&fbs=AEQNm0DBTogQXaq7JsoUAbTsd0B6JEdyvwg9pOFJlHzVj4IGyljlmelwKWALZZi_asBuBYCmnCMTz2vYY8oZ1_eIMkP8ZbHULV0gsMivuQAJD8YIKxiKkmO3NUk0IxclAd7PREpKI_hftEvVo0i3K5rmDQwTUc-Yg7q3zNzdLWgWzMRjTCSlH-5r--_iKXyZRQKNYeyxsORMv59DYVuvIp8PBq4WRXPIpA&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjCkL6B7PaGAxUZIDQIHb7dBGUQtKgLegQIDRAB&biw=1536&bih=695&dpr=1.25 Link to comment
On Pointe Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 2 hours ago, Meliss said: Another interesting question. Many actors and ballet dancers drink, but only Godunov is spoken of as an alcoholic. I wonder why. He never performed drunk. The director of his latest film, The Zone, stated that he had never seen Godunov drink excessively. I am very interested in whether there is a diagnosis of alcoholism in his medical record. I doubt it very much. By the way, his doctor, Maurice Levy, is still working. He could reveal this secret, but it seems that they are forbidden to disclose such information. Many, many creative and non-creative people are described as alcoholic, often by themselves. While alcoholism is often viewed as a personal failing, it's a chronic disease, with a strong genetic component. Sometimes it is most lethal when the alcoholic goes dry for a time and then tries to drink "just a little". Alcoholics can be very adept at concealing their consumption. Dick Van Dyke has often spoken about how he would work 12-14 hours per day on his TV series, and then compulsively drink for hours at home. He never drank in public at parties or in bars. (He eventually was hospitalized and got sober.) Godunov's cause of death was well-known at the time - hepatitis, exacerbated by chronic alcoholism. Link to comment
Helene Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 While poking around Gelsey Kirkland's Dancing on My Grave, I came across this: Quote When I saw him in Prodigal Son, wearing a new costume, one of the most ridiculous designs ever executed for man, beast, or dancer, I asked myself if he had any idea that Balanchine was making a fool of him. The line of his body was totally obscured, as if Mr. B wanted only Misha's feet to show. p.199 Given the excoriating things she said about some of her own costumes, including the Firebird costume in the then-new NYCB production in which she danced, she really didn't like this costume. She thought that Baryshnikov shouldn't have joined NYCB and worked with Balanchine. Quote I could see that Mr. B was cramping Misha's style, sometimes miscasting him always putting him in his place, ever giving him the direction that might have enabled him to stand out. p.198 This was well know and standard operating procedure for Balanchine when working with male star dancers., for better or worse, and it was no secret. Some stayed and came out the other end, like Martins, and some, like Bruhn, left. Kirkland and Baryshnikov appeared to come from different planets, and she never seemed to understand that the process and experience appeared to be more important to him than the immediate product, and that he didn't owe anything to ABT or classical ballet as he pursued it in a different company. Link to comment
Meliss Posted June 25 Author Share Posted June 25 1 hour ago, On Pointe said: Many, many creative and non-creative people are described as alcoholic, often by themselves. While alcoholism is often viewed as a personal failing, it's a chronic disease, with a strong genetic component. Sometimes it is most lethal when the alcoholic goes dry for a time and then tries to drink "just a little". Alcoholics can be very adept at concealing their consumption. Dick Van Dyke has often spoken about how he would work 12-14 hours per day on his TV series, and then compulsively drink for hours at home. He never drank in public at parties or in bars. (He eventually was hospitalized and got sober.) But all these arguments do not reveal Godunov's medical record to us and cannot indicate that he had this diagnosis. 1 hour ago, On Pointe said: Godunov's cause of death was well-known at the time - hepatitis, exacerbated by chronic alcoholism. Do you think it is possible to diagnose hepatitis in a deceased person without an autopsy, without medical tests? Levy himself stated in the newspaper TWO POSSIBLE causes of death: "On Monday, Godunov’s physician, Dr. Maurice Levy, signed the death certificate listing the cause of death as chronic alcoholism. He says there were two possible scenarios leading to the death of Godunov, who was discovered May 18: He either choked on regurgitated alcohol that also entered the lungs, or he had a seizure after drinking excessively, then abruptly stopping". Does it have anything to do with hepatitis? Many people say that Godunov looked quite healthy and his death should have been investigated. Link to comment
Meliss Posted June 25 Author Share Posted June 25 2 hours ago, On Pointe said: Many, many creative and non-creative people are described as alcoholic, often by themselves. While alcoholism is often viewed as a personal failing, it's a chronic disease, with a strong genetic component. Sometimes it is most lethal when the alcoholic goes dry for a time and then tries to drink "just a little". Alcoholics can be very adept at concealing their consumption. Dick Van Dyke has often spoken about how he would work 12-14 hours per day on his TV series, and then compulsively drink for hours at home. He never drank in public at parties or in bars. (He eventually was hospitalized and got sober.) Godunov's cause of death was well-known at the time - hepatitis, exacerbated by chronic alcoholism. This is one of the last photos, April 1995. Does he look like a chronic alcoholic? https://vk.com/photo-221123399_457242291 Link to comment
Helene Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 According the the Associated Press report, "Alexander Godunov died as a result of acute alcoholism. Rumors of his death as a result of AIDS or suicide are absolutely not true," publicist Evelyn Schriver said in a statement. (She was his publicist.) https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1454&dat=19950523&id=QlVIAAAAIBAJ&sjid=CxUEAAAAIBAJ&pg=2235,2942385 As long as there was no question of foul play, as ruled out by the police who investigated, or a demand by the family for an autopsy, there is no autopsy. As far as looking quite healthy, that is hardly a medical diagnosis. And in the nearly 30 years since his death, I haven't seen anyone suggest a cover-up or conspiracy that there were foul play, even in the age of the internet. Link to comment
Meliss Posted June 25 Author Share Posted June 25 (edited) 1 hour ago, Helene said: According the the Associated Press report, "Alexander Godunov died as a result of acute alcoholism. Rumors of his death as a result of AIDS or suicide are absolutely not true," publicist Evelyn Schriver said in a statement. (She was his publicist.) https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1454&dat=19950523&id=QlVIAAAAIBAJ&sjid=CxUEAAAAIBAJ&pg=2235,2942385 There is no point in discussing Shriver's statements after the document signed by Godunov's physician indicates the diagnosis that was not confirmed by either an autopsy or medical tests. In our press, you can find dozens of statements like - no alcohol was found in the blood. But I'm sure there was no blood test. That's not the point. Why invent the reason for the incomprehensible and sudden death of a young man? I don't want to look for the source now, but I remember that the doctor himself, by his own words, was shocked by the news of that death - just like everyone else. 1 hour ago, Helene said: As long as there was no question of foul play, as ruled out by the police who investigated, or a demand by the family for an autopsy, there is no autopsy. As far as looking quite healthy, that is hardly a medical diagnosis. And in the nearly 30 years since his death, I haven't seen anyone suggest a cover-up or conspiracy that there were foul play, even in the age of the internet. It could have been very convenient for somebody that his family was not in the USA and could not demand for an autopsy. There are a lot of questions to his manager Medann who was his executor. Why did not she inform Godunov's mother about his death? Why did she announce that the cremation would take place at 8 a.m., and when Godunov's friends came, they were informed that, by order of Medann, the cremation took place at 5 a.m.? They couldn't even see him. Why didn't she return Godunov's archive to his family? I don't want to talk about the inheritance, but it is also a murky story. Godunov's friends and our journalists have tried to ask her these questions, to which they received a very convenient answer: "I don't discuss my clients' business with anyone." All this can be seen and heard in the documentary, which has already been discussed here - "Alexander Godunov - escape for death." Edited June 25 by Meliss Link to comment
Helene Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 Death from acute alcoholism is quite comprehensible, whether something sudden, like aspiration, or something chronic, like hepatitis. People who aren't alcoholics don't die from seizures when they stop drinking, so, if that was the cause, as suggested by Levy, it would mean he was an alcoholic. And not all alcoholics look like they've been through the ringer, regardless of how much they've abused themselves internally. It's not all TV CSI-land, where everyone descends and tests for everything and uses all of the resources to get to the bottom of it. And that's for people who aren't poor. How much resources they use, and how much information they release, is variable. Not saying that they did blood tests could mean they did, and didn't find it necessary to say anything, or that they didn't run them. We can all believe what we like, but unless additional evidence comes forward and/or a person speaks, we have what's been documented. Godunov would hardly be the first "young" man to die of substance abuse in LA/Hollywood. In fact, people in the movie industry much younger than he. His death was big news to people who cared, and lesser news, and quickly forgotten news, for those who weren't invested in him. Link to comment
Meliss Posted June 25 Author Share Posted June 25 3 minutes ago, Helene said: Death from acute alcoholism is quite comprehensible, whether something sudden, like aspiration, or something chronic, like hepatitis. People who aren't alcoholics don't die from seizures when they stop drinking, so, if that was the cause, as suggested by Levy, it would mean he was an alcoholic. And not all alcoholics look like they've been through the ringer, regardless of how much they've abused themselves internally. It's not all TV CSI-land, where everyone descends and tests for everything and uses all of the resources to get to the bottom of it. And that's for people who aren't poor. How much resources they use, and how much information they release, is variable. Not saying that they did blood tests could mean they did, and didn't find it necessary to say anything, or that they didn't run them. We can all believe what we like, but unless additional evidence comes forward and/or a person speaks, we have what's been documented. Godunov would hardly be the first "young" man to die of substance abuse in LA/Hollywood. In fact, people in the movie industry much younger than he. His death was big news to people who cared, and lesser news, and quickly forgotten news, for those who weren't invested in him. How can hepatitis be indicated as the cause of death if there is no confirmation of this diagnosis, but there are several different assumptions? Yes, unfortunately, we only have a document with a fictitious diagnosis that has not been confirmed by any studies. And also an unscrupulous executor. Link to comment
Helene Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 Hepatitis was not listed in the official statement or, as far as I know, in the death certificate, although it was published as a cause and is perfectly conceivable*. If a person's personal physician doesn't know that someone was a chronic alcoholic, I'm not sure who would. His colleagues did: they wrote about it. *The Wikipedia article on him says he died of hepatitis, but the two links that supposedly substantiate this don't mention hepatitis. There are numerous references to complications of hepatitis caused by alcoholism having been determined later as the cause of death, but I can't find sources for where this came from, while both official sources -- spokesperson, death certificate -- list acute alcoholism. There's nothing to substantiate conspiracy theories as far as I can see. His alcoholism was well known and documented. There are diseases alcoholics usually suffer from and often die from the complications of. No matter how sad it is, and there's much about Godunov's life that is sad, it doesn't change the outcome of his disease. Link to comment
Fraildove Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 Hepatitis is a log-term, chronic disease. If this was listed as the cause then there had been test previously to confirm the diagnosis, especially if he had been given any form of treatment (I have no idea if alcoholic induced hepatitis is treatable). But given his personal doctor’s own statements it seems that he had previously been diagnosed. Link to comment
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