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1 hour ago, volcanohunter said:

Why thousands of miles west of Toronto? Do you believe that Indigenous Canadians live only on reservations in the northern prairies? That would betray a fundamental misunderstanding about life in Canada and its urban centers in particular. Not unlike the way that Hollywood used to put totem poles in movies set in Quebec.

i am well aware that many indigenous Canadians live in the big cities.  There are hundreds of thousands of Native Americans living in the NYC area,  and they have their challenges,  but I doubt that the management of the NYCB is traumatized by their plight.  The subject was Nicholas Rose,  a black man,  and the National Ballet of Canada.  Citing the struggles of indigenous Canadians is "whataboutery",  a diversion.

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43 minutes ago, On Pointe said:

Citing the struggles of indigenous Canadians is "whataboutery",  a diversion.

No, it isn't, because police violence against Blacks was cited in this thread, and so was the assertion that Canada is "just as racist" toward Blacks as the United States, when the reality is that Indigenous peoples make up 5% of Canada's population, but they account for 38% of police shooting fatalities according to a recent press analysis. My point is that the situation is different, and that therefore the National Ballet's management will be sensitized differently.

I don't understand your point about NYCB management. If NYCB is not traumatized by the plight of Native Americans because police shootings of Blacks is a graver problem in the area, does this exempt the NBoC from worrying about Blacks because police violence against Indigenous peoples is more prevalent in Canada?

Edited by volcanohunter

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1 hour ago, volcanohunter said:

No, it isn't, because police violence against Blacks was cited in this thread, and so was the assertion that Canada is "just as racist" toward Blacks as the United States, when the reality is that Indigenous peoples make up 5% of Canada's population, but they account for 38% of police shooting fatalities according to a recent press analysis. My point is that the situation is different, and that therefore the National Ballet's management will be sensitized differently.

Racism manifests in many ways.  As far as I know,  the police were not shooting at Nicholas Rose.  The subject is Rose and the NB of C.  

 

Edited by On Pointe

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1 hour ago, volcanohunter said:

If NYCB is not traumatized by the plight of Native Americans because police shootings of Blacks is a graver problem in the area, does this exempt the NBoC from worrying about Blacks because police violence against Indigenous peoples is more prevalent in Canada?

That is what you seem to be implying,  that Rose should chill because First Nations people are being shot.  The common denominator is racism,  but the situations are not analagous.

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35 minutes ago, volcanohunter said:

I argued no such thing. I'm still confused by your reference to New York City Ballet.

You seem to be arguing that Canada can't be as racist toward black people because indigenous Canadians appear to catch even more hell.  But it's possible and quite evident that societies can harbor more than one prejudice at a time.  Canada,  like the US,  Mexico and the Latin American countries,  is racist against indigenous people and black people.  (Black Mexicans weren't even recognized in the Mexican census until this year.)   Both groups have to deal with racism,  but it's expressed in different ways,  in different circumstances.

It is not logical to bring up police shootings of indigenous Canadians in a discussion of Nicholas Rose's situation,  just as it makes no sense to bring up the prejudice faced by Native Americans in NYC in a discussion of racial politics regarding black dancers at NYCB  (although they don't seem to be complaining). Canadians have been paying lip service,  and little else,  to "First Nations People" for years.  There is no evidence that they are more sensitized to indigenous concerns than black concerns.  It's performative,  not actual.  And it's got nothing to do with Mr. Rose.

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Sorry if I misunderstood your point.  I really don't understand why you bring up the treatment of indigenous Canadians in this discussion.  Apparently you don't believe that Canada is as racist toward black people as the US.  I do. But what we think has no bearing on Mr. Rose's lived experience.  You seem to be discounting it when you say "he may not understand that the reality of his bosses is different",  which is patronizing to say the least.  And you suggest that his discomfort is his fault for daring to dance with a big classical company,  with white male choreographers,  in the first place.  Please correct me if I am wrong,  but that's the message I got.

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I am thrilled for Siphe November. He was absolutely going places and if you have ever seen him dance in person you know you're in the presence of greatness. I am truly surprise about Hannah Fischer (and especially) Elena Lobsanova leaving. Elena was criminally underused. 

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On 6/29/2020 at 3:13 AM, volcanohunter said:

I certainly don't deny the existence of racism in Canada, but this statement is not supported by the statistical data.

I agree. I am NOT saying there isn't an issue but the scale is a different thing.

 

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Incidentally, the claims that the company  strongly favors graduates of its school isn't exactly what I see. Yes, they do try to hire at least some students from the school as apprentices (but many arrive in later years) in recent years it has sometimes been less than 50%. I see just about as many who aren't from the school joining the company as who are. And maybe they should keep an eye on their own graduates - NYCB does. As do other companies.

 

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FYI National Ballet School and National Ballet of Canada are not formerly linked in the same way that other schools are.  NBS is not the "Company" school of NBoC. Yes, NBS feeds NBoC but the relationship is different. 

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There was a time when the overwhelming majority of company dancers were graduates of the school, and the company's style was more cohesive when the school adhered to Cecchetti training. There was even a golden moment in the late 1980s when all the male principals were school graduates, a common enough occurrence among the women, but it had never been the case among the men. Sadly, standards at the school have fallen since then.

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