Quiggin Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, miliosr said: David Vaughan Thanks for that. According to your Wikipedia link, he worked with both Merce Cunningham and James Waring and contributed to Ballet Review and the Encyclopedia of Dance and Ballet. Not a stringer! Here's an excerpt from Miami Ballet's Bugaku, only 10 years old. But in 10 years things have changed an awful lot. If the "Chinese" variation in Nutcracker is controversial, what would a general audience today think of the seemingly coyly obsequeous way in which the women hold themselves on stage (– and their orientalizing makeup)? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QomyCafiWhM OT: Regarding the sexual line from Prodigal Son's Siren to Agon (which you can project to Bagaku), I began thinking of the talk Joan Acocella gave here in the Bay Area about 15 years ago called "Balanchine and Sex." She originally proposed it as "Ballet and the Crouch," but pulled back at last minute. I assume she might today change parts of it – her harsh criticism of first gen feminisim and being apologetic for the arts of the 80s. But it's interesting how she changed her idea of Balanchine as a Greenbergian abstractionist to something else. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wB8KQCPqWkc Edited December 22, 2020 by Quiggin Link to comment
canbelto Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 There is actually a video available of Bugaku: https://www.amazon.com/Balanchine-York-City-Ballet-Montreal/dp/B00P8RUSIE/ref=sr_1_13?dchild=1&keywords=balanchine&qid=1608680286&s=movies-tv&sr=1-13 Link to comment
cubanmiamiboy Posted December 25, 2020 Author Share Posted December 25, 2020 On 12/20/2020 at 12:54 PM, nanushka said: I don't think that "it has been decided that it might offend Japanese people"; it does offend. Any specific example you might want to share ...? I myself have never encountered a ballet viewer who was personally offended by the piece. I don't doubt that they might exist, or that many on this forum understand and hence might felt "offended by extension"-( as with whites within the BLM movement). But I haven't certainly never encountered an Asian offended by Balanchine's ballet. Link to comment
pherank Posted December 25, 2020 Share Posted December 25, 2020 19 minutes ago, cubanmiamiboy said: Any specific example you might want to share ...? I myself have never encountered a ballet viewer who was personally offended by the piece. I don't doubt that they might exist, or that many on this forum understand and hence might felt "offended by extension"-( as with whites within the BLM movement). But I haven't certainly never encountered an Asian offended by Balanchine's ballet. I've tried various times, but have been unable to find any written statements from Japanese ballet goers on the Bugaku subject. The objections I've seen have always come from people in the West. That doesn't prove anything - it just means I've seen no "data" whatsoever from Japan. Link to comment
volcanohunter Posted December 25, 2020 Share Posted December 25, 2020 It's worth asking whether Bugaku has ever been performed by a Japanese company, of which there are many. Granted, Balanchine doesn't figure especially prominently in their repertoire, and Bugaku is a minor work, but if the ballet hasn't been taken up, it would be telling. Link to comment
pherank Posted December 25, 2020 Share Posted December 25, 2020 1 hour ago, volcanohunter said: It's worth asking whether Bugaku has ever been performed by a Japanese company, of which there are many. Granted, Balanchine doesn't figure especially prominently in their repertoire, and Bugaku is a minor work, but if the ballet hasn't been taken up, it would be telling. Normally I would agree, but NBJ has only ever danced the big Balanchine works (Symphony in C for example), and North American companies are not dancing Bugaku either. And yet Bugaku is not PAMTGG. Nancy Goldner included Bugaku among her "Balanchine Variations" (her collection of essays on Balanchine masterworks) and I recommend reading that article. Link to comment
cubanmiamiboy Posted January 1, 2021 Author Share Posted January 1, 2021 (edited) On 12/24/2020 at 8:03 PM, pherank said: I've tried various times, but have been unable to find any written statements from Japanese ballet goers on the Bugaku subject. The objections I've seen have always come from people in the West. That doesn't prove anything - it just means I've seen no "data" whatsoever from Japan. The "by extension" concept... And now that you mention it... wouldn't it be interesting to survey a Japanese ballet troupe on the subject...? 🤔 Edited January 1, 2021 by cubanmiamiboy Link to comment
pherank Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 2 hours ago, cubanmiamiboy said: And now that you mention it... wouldn't it be interesting to survey a Japanese ballet troupe on the subject...? 🤔 Definitely. 😉 The essential issues with Balanchine's Bugaku seem to be: 1) its references to the sex act 2) Western dancers wearing traditional Japanese makeup and headdress If Japanese dancers were dancing the roles the effect might be rather different. As I mentioned at some point in this thread, Maurice Bejart choreographed a ballet named The Kabuki (as well as his own version of Bugaku, and the ballet M about writer Yukio Mishima) that is performed by the Tokyo Ballet. The Kabuki ballet is very involved, but it's interesting to compare Bejart's movement characterizations and Balanchine's. There's a real mix of purely balletic steps with 'Japonisme' articulations. It's almost as if Bejart can't quite decide how much he wants to reinvent the ballet language, so he just sprinkles Japonesque steps throughout. At one time there was a complete performance video available online (which I downloaded) but I can't find the video anywhere on YouTube or Vimeo now. We only have this: Maurice Béjart - Kabukihttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztJaj0iFMpo Tokyo Ballet "The Kabuki" in St.Petersburg, 1992https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNHQF7updh4 I do wonder what Bejart's Bugaku looks like. I'm guessing it was intended as a "fix" for Balanchine's original choreography since Bejart uses the same music originally commissioned by Balanchine. So, no sex? Link to comment
volcanohunter Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 This is an interesting program, and you can make of it what you will. Playing this weekend in Tokyo, a triple bill of Forsythe's Steptext, Tudor's Pillar of Fire and Balanchine's Western Symphony (but not Bugaku). https://www.sdballet.com/performances/2103_diversity/ Link to comment
On Pointe Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 16 minutes ago, volcanohunter said: This is an interesting program, and you can make of it what you will. Playing this weekend in Tokyo, a triple bill of Forsythe's Steptext, Tudor's Pillar of Fire and Balanchine's Western Symphony (but not Bugaku). https://www.sdballet.com/performances/2103_diversity/ Western Symphony seems an odd choice for a Japanese ballet company. One could say it's a clear case of cultural appropriation! Just kidding - I don't care. And American Westerns are popular all over the world, just like Asian martial arts movies. Bugaku is problematic because it isn't top tier Balanchine. It can be done without. Certainly Porgy and Bess would have been jettisoned long ago if it didn't have those glorious songs. A Link to comment
cubanmiamiboy Posted November 30, 2021 Author Share Posted November 30, 2021 On 1/1/2021 at 1:57 AM, pherank said: 😉 2) Western dancers wearing traditional Japanese makeup and headdress I just saw the Royal Ballet Nutcracker. The Chinese dance lost all makeup, headdresses and end gestural reference to Orientalism. Now it looks like a sad lazy dress rehearsal, halfway done. They better excise it completely. Link to comment
l'histoire Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 5 hours ago, cubanmiamiboy said: I just saw the Royal Ballet Nutcracker. The Chinese dance lost all makeup, headdresses and end gestural reference to Orientalism. Now it looks like a sad lazy dress rehearsal, halfway done. They better excise it completely. There is such richness in the Chinese performance tradition that is recognizably "Chinese" without being an outdated caricature, and that would actually work quite well with classical ballet (see the National Ballet of China's Peony Pavilion - one of THE great classics of Chinese theatre. I would much rather see an actual Chinese opera performance, but you know, you watch the ballet version & the port de bras, épaulement, etc. are definitely riffing on Chinese theatre & "classical" Chinese dance while still seeming "at home" in a ballet). I have no doubt there are plenty of experts that choreographers could consult to create something referencing "China" without being absolutely absurd and offensive. And if audiences can't get past the fact that it's not dressed in stereotypically "Oriental" fashion with ridiculous hand motions, well, that's on the audiences. Movie directors & game producers seek out expert consultants, why shouldn't ballet companies & choreographers do the same (yes, I'm aware that some have)? If you've never seen the worlds actors in the subtler genres of Chinese theatre (like Kun opera) can create with the flick of a wrist and tilt of the head, you're missing out. It's one reason I find this discussion baffling - there are performance traditions in Asia that could be drawn from, and hell, performers from traditional "Western" backgrounds and disciplines might learn a thing or two, as well. Has anyone seen the current Chinese variation of the Pacific Northwest Ballet version, which I believe has new costumes this year? I saw a few references on the dedicated PNB Nutcracker for this year, but nothing in depth. Link to comment
cubanmiamiboy Posted December 11, 2021 Author Share Posted December 11, 2021 On 11/30/2021 at 2:47 AM, l'histoire said: There is such richness in the Chinese performance tradition that is recognizably "Chinese" without being an outdated caricature, and that would actually work quite well with classical ballet (see the National Ballet of China's Peony Pavilion - one of THE great classics of Chinese theatre. I would much rather see an actual Chinese opera performance, but you know, you watch the ballet version & the port de bras, épaulement, etc. are definitely riffing on Chinese theatre & "classical" Chinese dance while still seeming "at home" in a ballet). I have no doubt there are plenty of experts that choreographers could consult to create something referencing "China" without being absolutely absurd and offensive. And if audiences can't get past the fact that it's not dressed in stereotypically "Oriental" fashion with ridiculous hand motions, well, that's on the audiences. Movie directors & game producers seek out expert consultants, why shouldn't ballet companies & choreographers do the same (yes, I'm aware that some have)? If you've never seen the worlds actors in the subtler genres of Chinese theatre (like Kun opera) can create with the flick of a wrist and tilt of the head, you're missing out. It's one reason I find this discussion baffling - there are performance traditions in Asia that could be drawn from, and hell, performers from traditional "Western" backgrounds and disciplines might learn a thing or two, as well. Has anyone seen the current Chinese variation of the Pacific Northwest Ballet version, which I believe has new costumes this year? I saw a few references on the dedicated PNB Nutcracker for this year, but nothing in depth. The dances of the Nutcracker are not meant to be so serious and correct. Just as the singing Texan cactus with sombreros cartoons or the exaggerated accent of Desi Arnaz in "I love Lucy". They are meant to convey a lose, happy feeling, not to create a scholar generated museum exhibition piece. I never felt the wigs, pointed fingers, the mustache or the eyeliner were "caricature-like". More like "cute". Of course...this is all subjective and personal. I have seen both Pekin Opera and Kabuki performances. There's no way I can ever relate the Nutcracker to the seriousness of those. Link to comment
l'histoire Posted December 14, 2021 Share Posted December 14, 2021 On 12/10/2021 at 9:14 PM, cubanmiamiboy said: The dances of the Nutcracker are not meant to be so serious and correct. Just as the singing Texan cactus with sombreros cartoons or the exaggerated accent of Desi Arnaz in "I love Lucy". They are meant to convey a lose, happy feeling, not to create a scholar generated museum exhibition piece. I never felt the wigs, pointed fingers, the mustache or the eyeliner were "caricature-like". More like "cute". Of course...this is all subjective and personal. I have seen both Pekin Opera and Kabuki performances. There's no way I can ever relate the Nutcracker to the seriousness of those. As someone who knows (and loves) quite a lot about Chinese performance traditions, I don't find such performances "cute." I find them offensive, stupid, and ultimately really dull for someone on the level of Balanchine. I really do believe Balanchine would've come up with something "better" if he'd *really* been exposed to one of the forms. What's wrong with doing "cute" more respectfully? Or are you saying Balanchine was so dull that the best he could resort to in order to convey "cute feelings plus Asian flair" in the audience was horsehair wigs & idiotic hand gestures? Because the latter is ABSOLUTELY what the Balanchine Nut is doing during "Tea." As a related aside, I don't like Beijing ("Pekin") opera overly much, I actually find it far too "over the top" for me. Maybe it's just having spent most of my life studying things other people think aren't worth looking at - you know, it's not "serious") - but I take Peking opera AND Kun opera AND, you know, such silly art forms as ballet seriously. After all, there are plenty who would say this entire board is evidence that humans enjoy debating and arguing about "stupid" things, like women in toe shoes and dramatic costumes. Link to comment
canbelto Posted December 14, 2021 Share Posted December 14, 2021 I've said this many times but when it comes to Bugaku the fact is if a company wants to acquire a Balanchine ballet they're going for Jewels/Serenade/Concerto Barocco/Apollo/Agon and the list goes on every time. Bugaku on its own merits isn't top Balanchine. It's mid-tier at best. It's unlike Balanchine's Nutcracker, where Tea has been "cleaned up" but the ballet is still staged by many companies. The strength of that Nutcracker overrides the problematic Tea. Link to comment
cubanmiamiboy Posted December 25, 2021 Author Share Posted December 25, 2021 (edited) On 12/14/2021 at 1:27 PM, canbelto said: I've said this many times but when it comes to Bugaku the fact is if a company wants to acquire a Balanchine ballet they're going for Jewels/Serenade/Concerto Barocco/Apollo/Agon and the list goes on every time. Bugaku on its own merits isn't top Balanchine. It's mid-tier at best. It's unlike Balanchine's Nutcracker, where Tea has been "cleaned up" but the ballet is still staged by many companies. The strength of that Nutcracker overrides the problematic Tea. I went to three performances of MCB's Nut. Three different casts for Sugarplum and Dewdrop. In the three of them-( two of them a double Saturday bill)- the two girl dancers of Tea were the same one. Two Asian girls. So I guess that's the best idea they thought they could come up with. Oh....and I haven't checked, but they looked to me as they were not professional dancers but students. They looked EXTREMELY young. That shows that the directives down here haven't really made peace with the fact of having to present, for "Tea from China", non Asians without the former wigs and makeup. They have obviously made an effort to present the dancers as Asian looking as possible. Edited December 25, 2021 by cubanmiamiboy Link to comment
l'histoire Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 On 12/24/2021 at 6:46 PM, cubanmiamiboy said: Two Asian girls. So I guess that's the best idea they thought they could come up with. Oh....and I haven't checked, but they looked to me as they were not professional dancers but students. They looked EXTREMELY young. That shows that the directives down here haven't really made peace with the fact of having to present, for "Tea from China", non Asians without the former wigs and makeup. They have obviously made an effort to present the dancers as Asian looking as possible. Well, apparently PNB managed to come up with something more creative and "Asian" without being offensive, so I guess blame MCB management for being blinkered and dull. I was actually quite impressed with the PNB "remake," which I got to watch on stream - the women in Tea even had appropriately Manchu headdresses on, and weren't of Asian descent!!!! Honestly, this whole conversation just reminds me of the Russian directors who are like "Oh we're doing black face because it's cute!" Link to comment
cubanmiamiboy Posted December 29, 2021 Author Share Posted December 29, 2021 23 hours ago, l'histoire said: Well, apparently PNB managed to come up with something more creative and "Asian" without being offensive, so I guess blame MCB management for being blinkered and dull. I was actually quite impressed with the PNB "remake," which I got to watch on stream - the women in Tea even had appropriately Manchu headdresses on, and weren't of Asian descent!!!! Honestly, this whole conversation just reminds me of the Russian directors who are like "Oh we're doing black face because it's cute!" I read somewhere that "pseudo Fu-Manchuesque" visuals are offensive as well. Link to comment
l'histoire Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 On 12/29/2021 at 4:56 AM, cubanmiamiboy said: I read somewhere that "pseudo Fu-Manchuesque" visuals are offensive as well. I didn't say "Fu Manchu" (which to me conjures images of men with sad drooping mustaches), I said MANCHU headdresses, which the PNB production had on the women in "Tea." The last dynasty of China was an ethnically Manchu dynasty, and the women in the PNB retained historically-appropriate headdresses from the Qing dynasty - which is one of the things that set Manchu women apart from ethnically Han women in the 17th-early 20th centuries. At least, unlike the absurd "finger-pointing" choreography (among other things), that's something ACTUALLY taken from the lived past & not just imagined up in an Orientalist fever dream. Link to comment
volcanohunter Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 Not trying to be provocative here, but what does a cricket have to do with green tea? If the other sweets contain no references to animals, isn't it odd that one suddenly appears in the divertissement? It's not as though the audience also sees bulls, stallions or bears in this production. Link to comment
Helene Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 I assume for the same reason that many productions use variations on Three Ivans instead of Candy Canes: because they have discretion. I would ask why any of the characters except the Polichinelles are portrayed as people, since they're supposed to be food and other physical objects. Balanchine clearly chose to portray Coffee -- originally a man smoking a hookah, but then was changed to a woman -- Tea, and the Polichinelles as humans, but Candy Cane, Marzipan, Flowers, Dewdrop, are all things, not people, while Mother Ginger is a giantess and angels are otherworldly, and different productions mix and match. In the PNB Balanchine, Coffee is a Peacock, as a tribute to the Stowell/Sendak production. In the latter, Tea was a Bear, a Sendak creation. In San Francisco (Tomasson's production), Tea is a Chinese dragon. The choreography for Tea is characterized quite well as a cricket. Link to comment
volcanohunter Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 My understanding was that the Mother Ginger dance did have roots in the candy store: "The divertissement took inspiration from a well-known candy tin that sold in Russia in the 1890s, formed in the shape of a woman wearing a large skirt. Naturally, the tin opened at the bottom to reveal the bonbons inside." Link to comment
Helene Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 Were the bonbons little clowns? That would have been sweet! I've been thinking about the Sendak/Stowell Nutcracker a lot lately, and although they got to make some wonderful changes due to being on film that couldn't work in the theater, so much of the stage experience was recorded, which makes me very glad. Link to comment
volcanohunter Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 Unfortunately, I don't know about the bonbons. In my limited experience I haven't seen the Mother Ginger tin revived as a holiday confection in Russia, which is not surprising given that most Russo-Soviet productions don't include the character. If the PNB production alludes to the Sendak peacock, then indeed there is nothing inconsistent about introducing a cricket. Link to comment
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