Finlay Resigns, Catazaro and Ramasar Suspended -- Update: Catazaro and Ramasar Fired

[dirac]

3 hours ago, Villette said:

 I hope AGMA will reconsider their stance and protect the female dancers.

Female dancers have contracts, too. 

Drew writes:

Quote

 A player in the NFL can be suspended for smoking pot in his own home etc...

Not a great example to be followed, perhaps. The NFL's union is notoriously weak.

[aurora]

Just now, Kathleen O'Connell said:

Ah, the old "I don't know if I can hug my colleagues anymore" plaint. I spent I don't know how many years as a professional woman dodging kisses from male peers who couldn't seem to wrap their heads around the fact that a handshake would do just fine. 

Right? Or, if they aren't sure if a hug is acceptable, they could try asking. But I generally don't feel the need to hug even my female coworkers with whom I am friends in a work context

[FPF]

Also that "texting has engulfed young people's lives." As if they have no choice in the matter.

[Kathleen O'Connell]

Just now, FPF said:

Also that "texting has engulfed young people's lives." As if they have no choice in the matter.

"A tsunami of sexts just up and engulfed me!"

[aurora]

23 minutes ago, Kathleen O'Connell said:

"A tsunami of sexts just up and engulfed me!"

😂😂😂

[ksk04]

While I am happy to hear the union is involved, I don't know that this expresses any particular moral or ethical stance by the union regarding their "alleged" behavior. This is part of the contract, to have representation and ensure due process. I could be complained about at work and my union would still need to provide me with representation in any grievance whether or not they thought I was guilty or at fault; the point is that they ensure the processes outlined in the contract are upheld. The union may end up advocating in both sides of this: if there was a violation of the contract with the firing of Catazaro/Ramasar (if if if) AND if the dancers complain about the work environment and want the union to be involved with ensuring a harassment free workplace/code of conduct/whatever (if if if).

[Kathleen O'Connell]

In all seriousness, I'm inclined to cut young teens some slack when it comes to texting that's less discreet than prudence might otherwise dictate. I'm an old, but if being a teen now is anything like being a teen in the 60s and 70s, a bit of new-found independence, peer pressure, and the perceived necessity of fitting in can make you stupid. We can expect twenty-somethings to do better, and thirty-somethings have no excuse.

[FPF]

51 minutes ago, aurora said:

Right? Or, if they aren't sure if a hug is acceptable, they could try asking. But I generally don't feel the need to hug even my female coworkers with whom I am friends in a work context

I agree. When in doubt don't. Or ask.

[Dale]

Sorry. Late to post this as I was out enjoying the first nice day in three weeks!

 

from Nycb:

NEW YORK CITY BALLET ANNOUNCES IMMEDIATE TERMINATIONS 

OF PRINCIPAL DANCERS ZACHARY CATAZARO AND AMAR RAMASAR

 

New York City Ballet announced today that Principal Dancers Zachary Catazaro and Amar Ramasar have been terminated, effective immediately.

 

Earlier this summer, following an internal investigation, NYCB determined that Catazaro, Ramasar, and former Principal Dancer Chase Finlay had engaged in inappropriate communications, that while personal, off-hours and off-site, had violated the norms of conduct that NYCB expects from its employees and were unacceptable. As a result, on August 27, NYCB took the initial action of suspending Catazaro and Ramasar until NYCB’s 2019 Winter Season. NYCB had also made the decision to terminate Finlay prior to receiving notice of his resignation. After further assessment of their conduct and the impact on the NYCB community, the Company has made the decision to terminate Catazaro and Ramasar.

 

In making the announcement NYCB Executive Director Katherine Brown and Interim Artistic Team leader Jonathan Stafford said, “We have no higher obligation than to ensure that our dancers and staff have a workplace where they feel respected and valued, and we are committed to providing that environment for all employees of New York City Ballet. We will not allow the private actions of a few to undermine the hard work and strength of character that is consistently demonstrated by the other members of our community or the excellence for which the Company stands.”

[FPF]

55 minutes ago, Kathleen O'Connell said:

In all seriousness, I'm inclined to cut young teens some slack when it comes to texting that's less discreet than prudence might otherwise dictate. I'm an old, but if being a teen now is anything like being a teen in the 60s and 70s, a bit of new-found independence, peer pressure, and the perceived necessity of fitting in can make you stupid. We can expect twenty-somethings to do better, and thirty-somethings have no excuse.

Yes, the idea that they are too young to know better at 28 and 36 is ridiculous.

Edited September 16, 2018 by FPF
correction

[FPF]

45 minutes ago, Kathleen O'Connell said:

"A tsunami of sexts just up and engulfed me!"

🌊🌊🌊

[FPF]

Spartak Hoxha has also posted in support of Amar: "Best of luck Amar! You know I only have love and respect for you"

And Gianna Reisen: ❤️

[meatball77]

5 minutes ago, FPF said:

Yes, the idea that they are too young to know better at 28 and 38 is ridiculous.

When does one become old enough to know better if not at 28 or 38?  Does one know better at 45?  How about 75?

Do not treat your co-workers like sexual objects is a skill that one is generally expected to understand in your teens.

 

[Dreamer]

In many cultures people are much more open to the physical contact, be it at work or in any other setting, among friends, colleagues or even strangers. French people kissing three times is the first example that jumps to my mind.  I was in Milan just last week for the performances of the Bolshoi and had an extra ticket which I offered to a complete stranger, a young male ballet student. He was so touched by my gesture that found no better way of thanking me but to hug and kiss.  At first, I instinctively pulled back but composed myself a second later and reciprocated.  It made me think whether we set our physical boundaries sometimes too far?  Do all our interactions with fellow human beings have to be strictly verbal and without any tactile component? I am not talking about situations of aggressive and unsolicited touching.

 

[vipa]

I just want to add that I feel for Jon Stafford. Running a big ballet company is hard under any circumstances, and he's in there, as in interim person, coping with public crisis/nightmare after public crisis/nightmare. The season is starting, Nutcrackers are coming and all of this is swirling around. One other thought - a frivolous one - the De Luz retirement is Oct. 14. I guess we'll assume a number of men won't be onstage to congratulate him - Martins, Ramasar, Catazaro, Finlay. Will Robby Fairchild come back to say congrats and share the stage with Tiler Peck? So much drama has surrounded the company over the last year, in small and big ways.

[yukionna4869]

I wish the drama surrounding the company would be whether Tiler Peck and Robbie Fairchild will share a stage.

[cubanmiamiboy]

3 hours ago, Kathleen O'Connell said:

Ah, the old "I don't know if I can hug my colleagues anymore" plaint. I spent I don't know how many years as a professional woman dodging kisses from male peers who couldn't seem to wrap their heads around the fact that a handshake would do just fine. 

It didn't take too long, once I landed in US, to realize that Americans are indeed quite reticent to other cultures kisses salutations. I quickly adapted accordingly.

[FPF]

Statement from the AGMA (via the Daily Mail): https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6172617/Two-male-New-York-City-Ballet-principal-dancers-FIRED-explicit-photo-scandal.html

'Based on all the information received from the company, the allegations relate entirely to non-work-related activity and do not rise to the level of "just cause" termination,' the union said in a statement. 'As AGMA would do for any of its members, we will soon be filing for arbitration to enforce our members’ employment rights.' 

[Quiggin]

I don't think that argument, which was also used in the comments on Macaulay's Instagram page, holds up. What these employees did on their own time, in "non-work-related activity," greatly compromised the image and "good will" City Ballet and all its members have tried to build up over the years. Maybe it's a bit precious, but that's the Ballet's choice. If say an employee of the General Motors design department had written crude and disparaging remarks about the esthetics of a car model on his or her own time and at home and it had gone to the wrong person and been made public, that person too would have been fired. Of course, that's only a narrow parallel, and doesn't take into consideration all the broader workplace factors.

Edited September 16, 2018 by Quiggin

[BalanchineFan]

9 hours ago, Helene said:

So they didn't distribute inappropriate videos and/or photos of their co-workers? Ramasar didn't actively solicit them and make demeaning comments about them? They participated at knifepoint?

IIRC, Waterbury’s complaint doesn’t say what Catazaro distributed. They might have been stock nudes from paid models on his own time, off company premises, i.e. not a crime and only involving NYCB because he happens to dance there. 

[Helene]

43 minutes ago, BalanchineFan said:

IIRC, Waterbury’s complaint doesn’t say what Catazaro distributed. They might have been stock nudes from paid models on his own time, off company premises, i.e. not a crime and only involving NYCB because he happens to dance there. 

When Catarazo was suspended, NYCB said that the investigation was based on communications provided by/on behalf of Waterbury, and there was enough that was inappropriate for a suspension at the same level of Ramasar, and now, to be fired.  It's not just the complaint that indicates inappropriate behavior, and the decision to fire was based on feedback from the Company.  While it's possible that his colleagues and co-workers were uncomfortable with him because he distributed stock nudes from paid models on his own time, it's a rather distant possibility, based on the actions the Company took, and based on willingness to go head to head with AGMA over it.

[On Pointe]

15 minutes ago, Helene said:

When Catarazo was suspended, NYCB said that the investigation was based on communications provided by/on behalf of Waterbury, and there was enough that was inappropriate for a suspension at the same level of Ramasar, and now, to be fired.  It's not just the complaint that indicates inappropriate behavior, and the decision to fire was based on feedback from the Company.  While it's possible that his colleagues and co-workers were uncomfortable with him because he distributed stock nudes from paid models on his own time, it's a rather distant possibility, based on the actions the Company took, and based on willingness to go head to head with AGMA over it.

We don't  know that company is exactly willing to go head to head with AGMA.  They probably don't have a choice  -  there's usually a binding arbitration agreement for dispute resolution in company contracts.  One thing,  as a number of NYCB personnel have posted statements of support for Ramasar and Catazaro,  NYCB leadership can't say that they're  being let go because company members think it best.  Some company members want them gone,  not all.  Either way,  their employment contract should not be subject to what is in effect a popularity contest.

It's curious that some company employees are so distracted by the presence of Ramasar and Catazaro that they want them gone,  but apparently no one went to AGMA about the dangers of being partnered by an alcohol abuser,  or being obliged to work with an alleged rapist and domestic violence abuser - the one who,  according to Waterbury's complaint,  everybody knew about and talked about.

A thought that came to me - while it may not make a difference  in the outcome of  this  situation,  Ms. Waterbury's  story of how she discovered that offensive material was being passed around seems suspect.  Why would she need Chase Finlay's computer to "check her email"?  Hard to believe she wouldn't  have a smart phone or tablet of her own on her person.  Models often get last minute calls for go-sees and auditions,  and being reachable is a basic requirement of the job.    Model or not,  a twenty year old who didn't have her own device is a rarity.  (It would be rare for a twelve year old in NYC.)  Perhaps she had another reason to search through Finlay's emails  and discovered by accident that he was sending out nude photos of her.

[Helene]

2 minutes ago, On Pointe said:

We don't  know that company is exactly willing to go head to head with AGMA.  They probably don't have a choice  -  there's usually a binding arbitration agreement for dispute resolution in company contracts. 

AGMA did not say that they disputed the suspensions.  When a company crosses the firing line, that is tantamount to saying they are willing to see it through.

 

4 minutes ago, On Pointe said:

NYCB leadership can't say that they're  being let go because company members think it best. 

The statement from the Stafford and Brown is, "After further assessment of their conduct and its impact on the NYCB community, the decision has been made to terminate Catazaro and Ramasar."  They didn't say they took a poll or a vote.

9 minutes ago, On Pointe said:

It's curious that some company employees are so distracted by the presence of Ramasar and Catazaro that they want them gone,  but apparently no one went to AGMA about the dangers of being partnered by an alcohol abuser,  or being obliged to work with an alleged rapist and domestic violence abuser - the one who,  according to Waterbury's complaint,  everybody knew about and talked about.

This is not apparent to me: not every complaint is made public, and many would-be complaints are warded off by a conversation about the odds of a complaint succeeding to cause more good than harm. And even if none were made or contemplated, it would take a unified effort to avoid being ostracized as a whistle blower.

 

[pirouetta27]

This whole situation has made me very sad from the moment the first article was published, but I was especially saddened today to read Ramasar and Catazaro's posts on the matter: regardless of what really happened, neither of them acknowledged the hurt that everyone else has been feeling (Waterbury, colleagues, fans...) Posting about how you are a such an honorable person blah blah blah does not make it so; what's honorable is to recognize and validate someone else's pain, particularly in such an icky situation as this. Without saying anything that would entangle the legal side of the case, each of them could have taken the chance to acknowledge the very real hurt that's happening NOW, rather than boasting about previous accomplishments in the world of City Ballet. The world is a better place when humans are able to step outside of their own self-focussed bubbles. Unfortunately, Ramasar and Catazaro have not done that in their public statements, and I fear that peace for City Ballet, Waterbury, etc. will be slow to come.

[KayDenmark]

40 minutes ago, On Pointe said:

Model or not,  a twenty year old who didn't have her own device is a rarity.  

1

But a 20-year-old who let her phone go dead because she, say, forgot her charger at home would not be a rarity.

While I generally agree with you that the way Waterbury discovered the images could be a point of contention - while SMS's "pop up" on an Apple device, email alerts show only a subject line and require an additional "click" to read their contents - she might have reason to use Finlay's computer.

It will be interesting to hear what Ramasar has to say about his actions in the explanation he has promised and what Catazaro has to say in his case for reinstatement. I assume Finlay will keep mum, since he's the only one who seems to be facing criminal charges, and "anything you say may be used against you in a court of law."