Winter 2018

[nicolc]

Diversity is an emphasis for this company.  Not just diversity of color, but diversity of dancing styles, musicality, thinking, and body types.  I embrace the fact that this is not a homogeneous group of white, emaciated, string beans.  We need to encourage this diversity to protect mental health amongst our dancers.  

[Marta]

3 minutes ago, nicolc said:

The most important critique you can make about a dancer is their dancing ability, musicality and stage presence -- weight comments, at the 5 pound mark, are not valid and, in fact, are very detrimental to the mental health and psyche of all dancers.  

Thanks for reminding us of that.  One may not like a dancer because they are too thin, too bulky, have hyperextended legs, fill in the blank.  These are all minor objections really. It's about what they do with their body,

[nanushka]

16 minutes ago, Marta said:

One may not like a dancer because they are too thin, too bulky, have hyperextended legs, fill in the blank.  These are all minor objections really.

But, as you say, they do at times play into our likes and dislikes — which seem fair to bring up. I don't think doing so is necessarily an attack on their mental health, so long as it's done with a due sense of proportion and respect.

Edited March 6, 2018 by nanushka

[Sal]

2 hours ago, nicolc said:

The most important critique you can make about a dancer is their dancing ability, musicality and stage presence -- weight comments, at the 5 pound mark, are not valid and, in fact, are very detrimental to the mental health and psyche of all dancers.  

Agreed. I find the discussion here about dancers' weight inappropriate and potentially harmful. 

[nanushka]

3 hours ago, nicolc said:

The most important critique you can make about a dancer is their dancing ability, musicality and stage presence -- weight comments, at the 5 pound mark, are not valid and, in fact, are very detrimental to the mental health and psyche of all dancers.  

 

1 hour ago, Sal said:

Agreed. I find the discussion here about dancers' weight inappropriate and potentially harmful. 

 

"Not valid" and "inappropriate" by what standards? My initial inclination is to disagree. Such comments seem to me, as I've said, not inherently unfair to raise — and certainly many of the things that many of us say here are potentially harmful to someone. It's difficult to critique art and performance without running that risk.

And “very detrimental to the mental health and psyche of all dancers” seems presumptuous to me. 

But I'm curious to hear alternate opinions.

Edited March 7, 2018 by nanushka

[fondoffouettes]

When I see a leotard look loose on a dancer (how is that even possible?), I can’t help but be distracted by it, as well as by lots of protruding bones (as was the case with Hyltin).

I judge her first and foremost on her dancing, but I’m also looking at her, the instrument.

It’s not our responsibility as audience members to be looking out for these dancers’ mental health.

 

Edited March 7, 2018 by fondoffouettes

[Helene]

[Moderator beanie on]

If you think a discussion does not comply with policy, use the "report" option for the post, and we will review it.  If we agree, we'll do something about it.  If we don't, we'll leave the post stand.

Discussing the discussion is against policy, unless you are a Moderator or Admin in that role.

[Moderator beanie off]

[canbelto]

Hmm Nytimes just published this photo. She's certainly thin but her bones don't protrude any more than Adrian's.

 

Compare this with Wendy. This photo actually does make me uncomfortable to look at and I say this as someone who considers Wendy's Symphony in Three to be the best I ever saw.

Edited March 7, 2018 by canbelto

[Balletwannabe]

I really don't get the critisism of Wendy.  I have a body like that.  My spine is visible, ribs show when I bend a certain way, and hip bones stick out.  Some of us are just built that way.  I mean I get it if it's aethstetically displeasing to people; but I think people like to criticize her because they think she promotes an unhealthy body.  She could in fact, be healthier than some dancers people consider the picture of health. 

[abatt]

4 hours ago, nicolc said:

Diversity is an emphasis for this company.  Not just diversity of color, but diversity of dancing styles, musicality, thinking, and body types.  I embrace the fact that this is not a homogeneous group of white, emaciated, string beans.  We need to encourage this diversity to protect mental health amongst our dancers.  

I don't think NYCB has a diversity of dancing styles.  That's why they hire almost all of the main company from SAB, where all the students have learned  Balanchine technique.

[fondoffouettes]

36 minutes ago, canbelto said:

Hmm Nytimes just published this photo. She's certainly thin but her bones don't protrude any more than Adrian's.

Compare this with Wendy. This photo actually does make me uncomfortable to look at and I say this as someone who considers Wendy's Symphony in Three to be the best I ever saw.

 

2

My thoughts were based on how she looked in motion. She looked very thin, more so than usual. But yes, it wasn't at all like Whelan.

[abatt]

I think weight warnings at NYCB may now be a thing of the past, since complaints about Martins'  handling of weight issues was one of the things that brought Martins' tenure to an end.   If you give a weight warning as a manager, you may either risk being the subject of an abuse investigation or become the subject of a NY Times article about how mean and insensitive you are. Going forward,  perhaps those in the company who are not regulating their weight/fitness on their own will simply not have their contracts renewed.  Management does not have to give a reason for nonrenewal of a contract.  These days, the less said by a manager about the grounds for nonrenewal, the better.

Edited March 7, 2018 by abatt

[cobweb]

As audience members, we can't help but notice and respond to how the dancers look, i.e., their bodies. That's just part of the art form. It's not the most important aspect of dancing - I like what Kathleen said above, about power, musicality, and artistry. But inevitably, we have opinions about the dancers' bodies. I too noticed the extra weight on the two corps ladies mentioned, and Tiler Peck may have a pound or so more than she used to. I noticed, but I didn't find any of this especially distracting. I find Sterling Hyltin too thin and bony, whereas Maria Kowroski and Teresa Reichlen have been looking extremely svelte, but soft at the same time. Quite beautiful.  

[vipa]

38 minutes ago, cobweb said:

As audience members, we can't help but notice and respond to how the dancers look, i.e., their bodies. That's just part of the art form. It's not the most important aspect of dancing - I like what Kathleen said above, about power, musicality, and artistry. But inevitably, we have opinions about the dancers' bodies. I too noticed the extra weight on the two corps ladies mentioned, and Tiler Peck may have a pound or so more than she used to. I noticed, but I didn't find any of this especially distracting. I find Sterling Hyltin too thin and bony, whereas Maria Kowroski and Teresa Reichlen have been looking extremely svelte, but soft at the same time. Quite beautiful.  

Agree cobweb, it's part of the art form. A dancer's body is his/her instrument. Along with all of this, viewers have biases in respect to body types. Some prefer tall dancers, others a muscular look. As a personal example, David Hallberg has my least favorite body type for a male dancer. When I watch him I have to force myself to go beyond my natural inclination and  and judge his performances. 

In terms of body weight, it is complicated for a dancer. There is the pressure of self judging, the opinions of ballet masters etc, finding a weight for maintaining optimum strength.  The right diet and cross training regime can be a difficult balance. Hopefully the 2 corps members being referred to will get there.

[abatt]

The weight issues have also been mentioned in relation to two male principals - the Angle brothers.

[cobweb]

Jared especially. For some years now he looks like he's been sampling the entire realm of sweets, or whatever it was. Doesn't stop me from enjoying the nobility of his dancing, but I think he'd have more spring and get more height if he reduced.  

[angelica]

1 hour ago, cobweb said:

Jared especially. For some years now he looks like he's been sampling the entire realm of sweets, or whatever it was. Doesn't stop me from enjoying the nobility of his dancing, but I think he'd have more spring and get more height if he reduced.  

I didn't see Jared this past season, but I did see Tyler, and I would say the same about him.

[angelica]

1 hour ago, vipa said:

 As a personal example, David Hallberg has my least favorite body type for a male dancer. When I watch him I have to force myself to go beyond my natural inclination and  and judge his performances. 

Vipa, are you talking about the "old" David Hallberg, before his rehab in Australia, or the "new" David Hallberg, who is much more muscular in his upper body, and presumably stronger, than before?

[nicolc]

20 hours ago, abatt said:

I don't think NYCB has a diversity of dancing styles.  That's why they hire almost all of the main company from SAB, where all the students have learned  Balanchine technique.

Even within that training, there is great diversity of style and technique!!!  How can you notice bodies to comment on "one pound or five pounds" and not notice the diversity of style and technique within the company????  Seems like we emphasize too much on body weight and less on dancing.  

Edited March 8, 2018 by nicolc

[vipa]

2 hours ago, angelica said:

Vipa, are you talking about the "old" David Hallberg, before his rehab in Australia, or the "new" David Hallberg, who is much more muscular in his upper body, and presumably stronger, than before?

Thanks for making the point angelica. To my taste the "new" is preferable to the old, but still not my favorite look for a male dancer.

[Jayne]

I like a strong dancer.  The extra muscle makes for higher jumps, faster dancing and quicker petite allegro steps.  

We don’t have access to dancers’ medical files, so we don’t know their health concerns.  

Edited March 8, 2018 by Jayne
Damned autocorrect!

[nicolc]

22 hours ago, abatt said:

I don't think NYCB has a diversity of dancing styles.  That's why they hire almost all of the main company from SAB, where all the students have learned  Balanchine technique.

Disagree.  There is a huge diversity within the style as well.  Why isn't Sara Mearns the same as Ashley Bouder the same as Megan Fairchild?  They all graduated from SAB.  It's Because of DIVERSITY!!!!

[abatt]

3 hours ago, nicolc said:

Even within that training, there is great diversity of style and technique!!!  How can you notice bodies to comment on "one pound or five pounds" and not notice the diversity of style and technique within the company????  Seems like we emphasize too much on body weight and less on dancing.  

There is a difference in skill level in executing the choreography among individual dancers, which refers to quality of technique and abilities of different individuals.  But differences in the level of skill  or quality of technique is not the same thing as a different style.  Everyone at NYCB has learned the same style at SAB.  It's not like ABT, for example, where the dancers come from all different schools, and there is no uniformity or consistency of style within the company.

Edited March 8, 2018 by abatt

[Royal Blue]

Although I would like to have attended the Saturday evening performance for various reasons, the only difference in casting was the absence of Unity Phelan on Sunday. Since I witnessed the debut of Ashley Hod and Phelan in the same roles a while back, it would have been intriguing to watch the pair now in Agon. 

Divertimento from 'Le Baiser de la Fée' is on no account top drawer Balanchine; however, it is still an attractive and moving ballet. It should not be surprising that the De Luz-Fairchild performance earlier in the week was more touching. Nevertheless, the ballet on Sunday with Tiler Peck and Anthony Huxley was delightful. Towards its conclusion, an abrupt change in tenor occurs in the piece: it afforded Ms. Peck another opportunity to imprint—through her poignant change in expression—a hauntingly beautiful image in my mind. 

Partnering issues have always bedeviled Teresa Reichlen due to her height and body type. An understandable caution and reserve, therefore, characterizes her work during pas de deux. By the same token, her amplitude as well as her beauty—in tandem, of course, with her formidable skills as a ballerina—make her stand out favorably from other women on stage. No obtrusive partnering mishaps marred Sunday's Agon. This, along with an imposing performance by Ashly Isaacs in the “Second Pas de Trois” made watching it especially gratifying. 

A work which NYCB finds convenient to program often, Duo Concertant poses no difficulty for the company’s accomplished female principals. Associated more with brilliant and fast footwork, Ashley Bouder displayed endearing sensitivity in the ballet's quieter segments last week. To be sure, Megan Fairchild and Russell Jansen were a winsome couple, although the enormous discrepancy in height between the two is awkward. 

Before Agon, there was an informative "See the Music ..." talk. However, it was during the last ballet of the program—Symphony in Three Movements—that I veritably “saw" the music. 

Imponderable elements in varying costumes can alter sharply the appearance of a dancer in different outfits. One cannot deny that Sterling Hyltin has a thin body frame and that certain costumes accentuate her thinness. In addition, however, Hyltin possesses a dignified bearing, and a distinguished countenance when straight-faced which make her highly credible in a part such as (for example) that of a would-be Queen during the finale of The Sleeping Beauty. On Sunday, she was tremendous in Symphony: the authority, dynamism, skill, rapidity, fearlessness with which she executed the steps and motions of her role were breathtaking. Imagining her that afternoon being a “general” in charge of the "troops" on stage did not seem farfetched: the menace and military associations in Stravinsky's music were palpable. With her dazzling performance on the occasion, Sterling Hyltin almost single-handedly brought NYCB’s winter season to a triumphant conclusion.