Gomes and ABT

[Helene]

23 minutes ago, dirac said:

As for the suggestion made elsewhere on this thread that youths and young men are somehow less vulnerable in the face of such misconduct............I really don't know what to say.

I'm with you -- we don't even have to rely upon anecdotal evidence: for one, there is the case of the highly-researched, publicized, and discussed charges of child abuse under the authority of the Catholic Church.

 

----

By their press release, ABT controls the narrative.

[canbelto]

I think this also goes to show how social media in some ways is as tightly controlled of an image maker as the old-time Hollywood publicists. Judging by social media, there was no person more beloved in ballet than Marcelo Gomes. Just recently Veronika Part made a public instagram posting saying how much affection she had for him. And Gomes' posts were funny and charming and depicted a happy life with his boyfriend and pets. 

Obviously something happened 8 years ago of which we don't know the exact details, but suggest that there might be a dark side to Gomes' personality and character. 

Sad day for ballet.

[California]

Diana Vishneva just posted this on Twitter:

Diana Vishneva‏ @dianavishneva 15m15 minutes ago

More

Let’s not be carried away by the current accusation frenzy but remain mindful and caring. Let’s not mix shameful cases that need to be exposed with those of dubious intentions. Let’s speak up when someone’s treated unfairly. Every voice matters when someone’s future is at stake.

 

Diana Vishneva and marcelo gomes

[AB'sMom]

If he signed a non-disclosure agreement with someone, whether he admitted guilt or not, publicly saying he is innocent would likely make the NDA null and the other party could start speaking publicly. 

[dirac]

Quote

Let’s not be carried away by the current accusation frenzy but remain mindful and caring. Let’s not mix shameful cases that need to be exposed with those of dubious intentions. Let’s speak up when someone’s treated unfairly. Every voice matters when someone’s future is at stake.

 

I have no idea what Vishneva is on about, but “speaking up when someone’s treated unfairly” is exactly what the “current accusation frenzy” is all about. I’m sorry she thinks ABT are being unfair to a friend, and it’s always possible the company have been unfair.  But I would think the lives of people we don’t necessarily know personally which have been blighted by sexual harassment and worse are worth speaking up for, as well. Indeed, every voice matters.

[Balletwannabe]

1 hour ago, California said:

Diana Vishneva just posted this on Twitter:

Diana Vishneva‏ @dianavishneva 15m15 minutes ago

More

Let’s not be carried away by the current accusation frenzy but remain mindful and caring. Let’s not mix shameful cases that need to be exposed with those of dubious intentions. Let’s speak up when someone’s treated unfairly. Every voice matters when someone’s future is at stake.

 

Diana Vishneva and marcelo gomes

I think it's noteworthy that Isabella Boylston liked this post.

That's 3 high profile dancers now showing their support. 

The burning question in my mind is, why make it appear like you're guilty by resigning, if you're innocent? Edit- I just read ABsmom possible explanation of this.

Edited December 22, 2017 by Balletwannabe

[California]

3 minutes ago, Balletwannabe said:

The burning question in my mind is, why make it appear like you're guilty by resigning, if you're innocent?

Looks like we'll never know, but I'm reminded of the controversy around special investigators (whether Whitewater/Starr or Russia/Mueller): once they start investigating and following leads, what else might they find? 

Another factor nobody has mentioned and about which we'll never know: the union contract and whether it dictated anything at all about  how this was handled by ABT.

[abatt]

Given the speed with which all this unfolded, it's possible that Marcelo did not consider the possibility that he would give the appearance of looking guilty by resigning.  Moreover, he may not have thought to ask for a more vanilla press release from ABT regarding his departure in exchange for his resignation.  It may have taken him by surprise that ABT decided to go the route of Character Assassination by Press Release.

 

Edited December 22, 2017 by abatt

[Balletwannabe]

Gillian Murphy's post was liked by abtofficial! 

[alexL]

38 minutes ago, Balletwannabe said:

Gillian Murphy's post was liked by abtofficial! 

ABT official Instagram account is actually being managed by the ABT dancers so I wouldn't assume it's the actual support coming from the ABT management or marketing team. 

[nanushka]

5 minutes ago, alexL said:

ABT official Instagram account is actually being managed by the ABT dancers so I wouldn't assume it's the actual support coming from the ABT management or marketing team. 

There’s also nothing in Gillian’s post that explicitly expresses sympathy or support for Marcelo. It’s vague enough to be potentially read as saying “hang in there” to the company in general.

Now, I do think it’s likely Gillian did intend to subtly imply more. But it’s not as if she’s taken a stand and spoken out. And that’s likely why those who run abtofficial felt they could like it.

Edited December 22, 2017 by nanushka

[Drew]

 Below is from Ratmansky's public facing FB page:

 

Edited December 22, 2017 by Drew
Decided not to comment at all.

[ABT Fan]

If Gomes hadn’t resigned (assuming he resigned on his own accord), I wonder how long this accusation and the investigation would have remained under wraps. 

There are so many unknowns here. I think this is the first accusation I’ve read about where no details about what actually happened have been released. It’s early, so maybe that’s forthcoming. But, I find it difficult to have much of an opinion about how ABT or Gomes has handled this without more info.

But, even if we never hear the details and if Gomes doesn’t return to the company with a cleared name, I can’t imagine, especially in this current climate, that any other company would hire him as a dancer or a choreographer. Julie Kent may intend on keeping him on her upcoming program, but I’d think the board might strongly disagree and overrule her. Same with Sarasota where he’s been doing a lot of work. What about his upcoming film release? And, he’s supposed to star in Bourne’s SL again next year. Usually the ripple effect is fast and furious following something like this. Will we see it happen here? 

I’m utterly devastated. This is by far the worst of the worst. 

[Fleurdelis]

Unlike the other people who have known and worked closely with Marcelo, Ratmansky does not hide behind vague and obfuscating words and innuendos, and expresses open and direct words of support. Shows him as a man of great honesty and integrity, which deserves nothing but respect!

As many here I am shocked by the resignation of Marcelo and the accusation against him, I certainly would have never thought that doing anything indecent or inappropriate would be in his character. I believe his fans and the public in general deserve clarity on this matter instead of an ill-defined suggestion of an allegation. If Marcelo has indeed done something wrong, he should be man enough to admit it and atone for it, if he is innocent, he should have the courage to denounce and fight the accusation.

[pherank]

18 minutes ago, ABT Fan said:

But, even if we never hear the details and if Gomes doesn’t return to the company with a cleared name, I can’t imagine, especially in this current climate, that any other company would hire him as a dancer or a choreographer. Julie Kent may intend on keeping him on her upcoming program, but I’d think the board might strongly disagree and overrule her. Same with Sarasota where he’s been doing a lot of work. What about his upcoming film release? And, he’s supposed to star in Bourne’s SL again next year. Usually the ripple effect is fast and furious following something like this. Will we see it happen here?

If it makes you feel any better - we also happen to be living in an era when people who have fallen from grace get to reinvent themselves and re-emerge after they've gone through the obligatory public disgrace and laid low for a while. If the person is talented enough, and iconic enough (and dutifully behave themselves), they will return.

[balletforme]

20 hours ago, aurora said:

You ignored all the following more specific accounts of abuse by Martins.

 

The point of the post was to bring attention to the official descriptions from official press releases/ letters

NYCB and SAB could not have responded to accusations that have come forward about Martins since then. 

I guess that I would also point out that both organizations DID hire law firms to investigate the matters in an attempt to be fair.  Gomes, for whatever reason (guilt? shocked? scared? inexperienced, threatened? uninformed? ill-advised? wanted to move on? didn't want a prolonged waiting) chose not to allow the process to play out. 

And we really don't know what the accusations against Gomes are apart from "sexual misconduct" "highly concerning."

It's just not known.  So, in my opinion, we can't make Gomes a victim or a monster. Maybe he was being smart. 

Certainly a beloved and talented dancer.  But what else, we do not really know. 

Edited December 22, 2017 by balletforme

[Amy Reusch]

On 12/21/2017 at 4:38 PM, abatt said:

It's also not hard to imagine that he was given an ultimatum to resign with his full pension and benefits unharmed...

Do ABT dancers get pensions and post employment benefits?  

[hyacinthhippo]

Has anyone noticed.... Alastair took down his original insta post on this topic.... wonder why?

[cubanmiamiboy]

7 hours ago, dirac said:

 

As for the suggestion made elsewhere on this thread that youths and young men are somehow less vulnerable in the face of such misconduct............I really don't know what to say.

That we men are likely less vulnerable than women in such situations...less likely to surrender right away, more likely to meet the offender with a counteracting physical force....is that really unthinkable ....?

[nanushka]

17 minutes ago, cubanmiamiboy said:

That we men are likely less vulnerable than women in such situations...less likely to surrender right away, more likely to meet the offender with a counteracting physical force....is that really unthinkable ....?

Whether or not that's thinkable, many of the situations we have been discussing have involved no physical force, and we don't know any details of what Marcelo is alleged to have done, so there's no particular reason to think that it involved physical force.

Edited December 23, 2017 by nanushka

[cubanmiamiboy]

1 minute ago, nanushka said:

Whether or not that's thinkable, many of the situations we have been discussing have involved no physical force, and we don't know any details of what Marcelo is alleged to have done, so there's no particular reason to think that it involved physical force.

I mentioned physical force in relationship with a potential RESPONSE from men being threatened. In other words....we are more likely to fight in better terms than women.

[cubanmiamiboy]

12 minutes ago, nanushka said:

Whether or not that's thinkable, many of the situations we have been discussing have involved no physical force, and we don't know any details of what Marcelo is alleged to have done, so there's no particular reason to think that it involved physical force.

I mentioned physical force in relationship with a potential RESPONSE from men being threatened. In other words....we are more likely to fight in better, more equal terms than women.

[nanushka]

10 minutes ago, cubanmiamiboy said:

I mentioned physical force in relationship with a potential RESPONSE from men being threatened. In other words....we are more likely to fight in better, more equal terms than women.

And in many of the situations we've been discussing, physical force would not likely be the primary or best response, and we don't know any details of what Marcelo is alleged to have done, so there's no particular reason to think that physical force would likely have been the primary or best response to it.

[cubanmiamiboy]

2 minutes ago, nanushka said:

And in many of the situations we've been discussing, physical force would not likely be the primary or best response, and we don't know any details of what Marcelo is alleged to have done, so there's no particular reason to think that physical force would likely have been the primary or best response to it.

What I am trying to say is that I am totally not buying many of the allegations out there. There are true cases, but there is hysteria too, and there's is also the glooming well known ghost of "when in doubt, sue". We don't know the details of Gomes ordeal, but we might suspect very well it could be a guy, given that he is gay. And pardon my French, but this sounds fishy. 

[Quiggin]

2 hours ago, hyacinthhippo said:

Has anyone noticed.... Alastair took down his original insta post on this topic.... wonder why?

On Twitter it consisted of a copy of the ABT statement and for the most part of Alastair Macaulay in dialogue with Apollinaire Scherr, who thought it was too early to use the word "sad," and over the wording of the press release, which she thought was unfair. Macaulay in his reponses seemed to be trying to clarify the language about what we knew and didn't know. A couple of other critics reposted it. Any one of the original participants could have requested it to be deleted, perhaps he or she thought it was too early to speculate. At least that's how I remember it.

Edited December 23, 2017 by Quiggin