Misty Copeland, Part Deux

[Helene]

Just as there are skaters who can think quickly and adjust for mistakes, there are dancers who can, too.  There"s one mindset that says "I will overcome and not practice an alternative," others who will, so that an option is in muscle memory," and others, like Plisetskaya -- like skaters who drop loops altogether -- who substitute.

It's more rare to be able to adjust spontaneously, without it being a practiced Plan B, and making it look like an expert, planned choice.  I would expect an unpracticed alternative, even if thought about ahead of time, but not stage ready, to look exactly like that, the worst of both.

There are dancers who live at the high end of the technical cliff, like Bouder, and for many, not all, this is worth the price of admission.  There are one-off performances like that -- the Orzas in the Nutcracker Grand pas early last December that had nearly my entire section upright or forward in their seats -- but this is not Copeland's forte.  I'm among those who think that she should either have a practiced fouettes+ Plan B that she can use before the fouettes go south, as she hasn't shown a good save percentage, or do a complete substitution.

[Dreamer]

Although I do not endorse or support any negative videos of Misty Copeland (or any other dancer for that matter)  but I believe that in our day and age biased, offensive and embarrassing video compilations directed at public figures, politicians or celebrities are inevitable. I am not suggesting that the anti-Copeland campaign is appropriate or justified, I am just not surprised by it. There are quite a few ballerinas/dancers who were and continue being regularly trashed and humiliated on social media with many video, posts and comments discussing their mistakes, flawed technique, lack of artistry and yes, laziness. For most parts, Copeland was spared of such vicious treatment and public shaming. And with her well-oiled PR machine she can quickly respond and quench any attempts of questioning her technical prowess or exposing her flaws. I can’t really feel sorry for Copeland as she seems to be perfectly capable and absolutely determined to fight back. It remained to be seen if her fighter’s spirit will help her become a better technician.

[Vs1]

13 hours ago, Drew said:

Is Copeland a razzle-dazzle virtuoso? No. Did anyone ever say she was? Even in the press? No and no.   Agree

. As Nanushka says, one could easily put together a compilation of mistakes from various prominent dancers.Of course, we all make fun of ourselves. Furthermore, see Mr. B.

 ,,,-to say nothing of slips and bobbles from Ashley Bouder too; not to mention slow to the point of painfully dull clips of Veronika Part. If someone finds the way Copeland dances uninteresting and below par, but loves Part...then probably it's not Copeland's mistakes that bother that person but her overall dancing.  Part is magical, moving, dramatic, as someone once said here, an old Hollywood star.  She captures attention on the stage with her aura.  Ashley dazzles, laughs at herself, doesn't complain, and is a tech wiz.

if I had a chance to see her again in classic repertory I might be more keen on seeing her in Giselle or the Ratmansky Nutcracker than Swan Lake. Giselle-peasant pas, ok.  Giselle herself- no.  Giselle is gentle, naïve, and spiritual. Misty is a modern type dancer, and very sharp in pr and politics.  She is leaden in the role (the review made her "earthly" characteristic a positive aspect). You could hear her throughout the theatre, she couldn't  do the hops, and she did not become the character, but a dancer struggling to dance the role she was taught, like at a workshop or high school play. She was not principal material in that roll or ready for the stage.  Likewise, her Swan.

As for resentment at Copeland's fame. No, an excuse.  Who cares? God bless her. Everyone here seems to assess her dancing technically, as well as her public  behavior and fairness to others.  No one gets to breath any air since she gets it all, onstage and off.  And the level of her praise is underserving and obvious propaganda.

- she is better in some roles rather than others much as one does with any other ballerina, Agree

 

[Vs1]

Just now, mnacenani said:

Have not seen Misty in any classic Petipa and doubt that I ever will, however I saw the livecast of her Juliet at Scala last year (vs Bolle) and thought she was very good in role. This is on YT and if you haven't seen it please do so and let me know how you rate her performance : 

 

She is very, very, very x100 lucky. 

Edited April 9, 2018 by Vs1
to add 2 veries and a x100

[Helene]

Copeland performed with Marcelo Gomes in Sarasota Ballet's Gala last night, and it looks like from the Instagram photo linked in her tweet that they danced the White Swan pas de deux:

Thank you #sarasotaballet and my love @marcelogomes47 for an amazing evening!!! Marcy, I love… https://www.instagram.com/p/BhVKK5ABlpB/ 

[sandik]

On 4/7/2018 at 4:56 PM, Drew said:

I have also vaguely wondered why ABT doesn't experiment with reviving Tudor for her -- with proper coaching for all the dancers cast -- Pillar of Fire or Leaves are Fading--or how about a Copeland/Cornejo Shadowplay!  I'm trying not to assume I know best about casting, so maybe it wouldn't work, but from the outside looking in, I have found myself curious.

Many good points, but I wanted to give an enthusiastic yes to this one -- Tudor!

[nanushka]

Two videos from Marcelo on IG:

 

[l'histoire]

On 4/8/2018 at 7:31 AM, nanushka said:

In fact, in her responses to the fouetté video, she downplayed technique and its role in ballet. From both the YouTube comment and the second Instagram post:

This is the part of her response that I really have a problem with. I don't believe it's correct to say that ballet's "origin" was in "pure freedom and expression," and I certainly don't think there's anything wrong with viewing ballet performance from a perspective of critical judgment. In ballet at its best, technique and artistry are not at odds. Her comments here seem to me to reflect a misunderstanding of the history and traditions of classical ballet, as does her subsequent Cosmo interview:

That ballet would draw an audience of viewers many of whom are inclined to regard dance with a critical eye is hardly a new development, and hardly limited to the New York area.

While I agree with much of what you're saying, I'm also thinking of Suzanne Farrell in Elusive Muse, stating that (at one point, early in her career) Balanchine said to her (paraphrased from memory; can't drag my DVD out at this hour): "You're going to have all these people to listen to - your mother, critics, the audience, telling you different things. They're all going to be telling you different things. So - just listen to me." And - she did (and I don't think anyone except the most die-hard fan of Russian ballet can say it didn't work for Farrell AND Balanchine?), but I wonder if there isn't an element of this going on with Copeland. She's probably listening to the person she "should" be listening to - her AD (question is, is her AD advising her in a way that she's presenting herself best, and vice versa? I think Farrell trusted that Balanchine would never make a fool of her, and Balanchine trusted that she would never make a hash of the choreography). 

[nanushka]

2 hours ago, l'histoire said:

While I agree with much of what you're saying, I'm also thinking of Suzanne Farrell in Elusive Muse, stating that (at one point, early in her career) Balanchine said to her (paraphrased from memory; can't drag my DVD out at this hour): "You're going to have all these people to listen to - your mother, critics, the audience, telling you different things. They're all going to be telling you different things. So - just listen to me." And - she did (and I don't think anyone except the most die-hard fan of Russian ballet can say it didn't work for Farrell AND Balanchine?), but I wonder if there isn't an element of this going on with Copeland. She's probably listening to the person she "should" be listening to - her AD (question is, is her AD advising her in a way that she's presenting herself best, and vice versa? I think Farrell trusted that Balanchine would never make a fool of her, and Balanchine trusted that she would never make a hash of the choreography). 

Good point. To clarify, though, I'm not at all saying that Copeland should be listening directly to her audience/critics. I'm saying that she shouldn't be suggesting it's wrong for them to "come into the theatre as a critic armed with judgement" (as if doing so precluded aesthetic appreciation, emotional engagement, enjoyment, etc.), or that their doing so is out of keeping with the history and traditions of the art form. I also think she shouldn't be minimizing the crucial role of technique in classical ballet.

Edited April 10, 2018 by nanushka

[abatt]

7 hours ago, nanushka said:

Good point. To clarify, though, I'm not at all saying that Copeland should be listening directly to her audience/critics. I'm saying that she shouldn't be suggesting it's wrong for them to "come into the theatre as a critic armed with judgement" (as if doing so precluded aesthetic appreciation, emotional engagement, enjoyment, etc.), or that their doing so is out of keeping with the history and traditions of the art form. I also think she shouldn't be minimizing the crucial role of technique in classical ballet.

When she refers negatively to audience members who come into the theatre as a critic armed with judgment, she is really talking about  audience members who come into the theatre armed with  knowledge of the choreography, a background of having seen the choreography  executed by others over a period of years, and  knowledge of the history behind the choreography   That's not being armed with judgment.  It's being armed with education and information. Big difference.

 

She should be listening to McKenzie and her coaches, not audience member or critics.  I wonder what McKenzie and her coaches are telling her, if anything.

Edited April 10, 2018 by abatt

[balletforme]

Copeland reported struggling with fouettes at the Spotlight Awards in LA as a teen dancer. I think that there might be a psychological block. 

[sandik]

39 minutes ago, balletforme said:

Copeland reported struggling with fouettes at the Spotlight Awards in LA as a teen dancer. I think that there might be a psychological block. 

And it's not just her -- those turns have been a bete noir for many dancers over the years.

[Helene]

Merrill Ashley, one of the greatest technical Balanchine ballerinas, also had issues with various turns over the years, which she described in her book.  She spoke about a series in "Who Cares?" that no amount of practice could make reliable, but she realized she had at least as good a chance of doing them successfully if she didn't over-practice and over-think them.  Also, in the original/theater "Ballo," there was a manege, maybe pique turns, that Balanchine thought looked flat on screen when they did the "Dance in America" taping, and he subbed in -- what else? -- fouettes.  On top of all of those hops on point and that crazy hard diagonal of turns to arabesque.

[nanushka]

12 minutes ago, Helene said:

Also, in the original/theater "Ballo," there was a manege, maybe pique turns, that Balanchine thought looked flat on screen when they did the "Dance in America" taping, and he subbed in -- what else? -- fouettes.  On top of all of those hops on point and that crazy hard diagonal of turns to arabesque.

I think that story is an excellent example of a dancer and director working together to craft a solution that has maximum impact given the constraints of context, medium and physical ability. From Ashley's biography:

Quote

One such place came at the end of the coda, where I had a series of piqué turns in a circle. On television any step in a circle looks flat and uninteresting. The camera follows the dancer, who stays the same size on the screen, obscuring the fact that you’re moving in a circle. Balanchine asked me to do fouetté turns in place rather than the circle of turns. Unfortunately, I had sprained my left ankle a week earlier and it was too sore and weak for me to do fast fouettés on my left leg. Reluctantly, I gave him the news. Balanchine knew that few people are comfortable turning to the left, and so he assumed, correctly, that I would not want to do fouettés on my right leg turning to the left. His next idea was en dedans fouettés, which would have me turning on my right leg, but to the right. They are much more difficult than regular en dehors fouettés, especially at a fast tempo. When it was finally time to tape 'Ballo', I was able to do these fiendish turns, but only if I was not tired and breathless right before beginning them. Fortunately, we taped the coda in several different takes, which ensured I would be fresh for these turns.

After the shooting, Balanchine found he preferred this change to the original steps and asked me to do the same thing on stage. I did several performances this way, but the turns were always very precarious. I had very little energy left by that time, and as I struggled to do the fouettés I found myself moving dangerously close to the edge of the orchestra pit. When my left ankle was healthy again, I decided to go back to Balanchine’s idea of regular fouettés. But even today my dislike of fouettés still surfaces and makes me long for those original easy piqué turns.

I hope that Misty and Kevin McK can work together to come up with an equally effective solution to the problems she has apparently always had in performing the SL fouettés — even if it means substituting something else entirely.

Ashley's en dedans fouettés can be seen here.

[sandik]

"But even today my dislike of fouettés still surfaces and makes me long for those original easy piqué turns."

Oh my!

[fondoffouettes]

29 minutes ago, nanushka said:

Ashley's en dedans fouettés can be seen here.

How do NYCB dancers perform that section today? As en dehors fouettés? I must say that the en dedans fouettés in the linked video feel like a rare treat, and are quite striking, though I can see why they’d feel awkward for the dancer.

Edited April 10, 2018 by fondoffouettes

[Helene]

35 minutes ago, sandik said:

"But even today my dislike of fouettés still surfaces and makes me long for those original easy piqué turns."

Oh my!

Especially when you consider where they are in the ballet, and all of the things she has to do before them

[balletforme]

I guess that the idea is to have a Plan B that can be efficiently implemented if the first 2-3 turns go wrong.  In fact, I even think that practicing a Plan B must part of the address.  Then psychologically the dancer has safety. 

[abatt]

I've seen dancers start again if the first 2 or 3 turns go wrong.  That should be plan B.

[nanushka]

If Plan A is 32 fouettés, and if Plan A has never been achieved onstage in performance (and I've never read a report that it has — does anyone know of one? and does anyone have a tally of how many full-length SLs Misty has danced at this point?), then there needs to be a new Plan A, I think, unless serious additional training is happening in the studio.

The new Plan A could perhaps be 16 (or the first half of the music) then something else; or it could be something else entirely. Let's say the new Plan A is 16 plus something else; then there should probably also be a new Plan B, in case even 16 doesn't end up being feasible.

This is of course all written as I sit here wearing my 'If I were AD...' hat.

Edited April 11, 2018 by nanushka

[canbelto]

I've noticed that most ABT dancers don't have a plan B when they falter. It's not just Misty. Sarah Lane in her O/O debut fell out of the final few revolutions during her fouettes and just stood there and looked crestfallen for the remainder of the music. 

Stella Abrera in her Giselle variation also fell off pointe. She had to put her other foot down and then sort of continued but barely traveled across the stage.

I'm an admirer of both Stella and Sarah and think this lack of Plan B has to do with the way they are coached (or not being coached). 

[fondoffouettes]

49 minutes ago, nanushka said:

If Plan A is 32 fouettés, and if Plan A has never been achieved onstage in performance (and I've never read a report that it has — does anyone know of one? and does anyone have a tally of how many full-length SLs Misty has danced at this point?), then there needs to be a new Plan A, I think, unless serious additional training is happening in the studio.

The new Plan A could perhaps be 16 (or the first half of the music) then something else; or it could be something else entirely. Let's say the new Plan A is 16 plus something else; then there should probably also be a new Plan B, in case even 16 doesn't end up being feasible.

This is of course all written as I sit here wearing my 'If I were AD...' hat.

All reports I've read of her Swan Lake have indicated that she's substituted other turns for at least part of the fouetté sequence. I think what we see in the video above is essentially her current "Plan A," minus three or four fouettés to better fill out the first half of the music. Both halves of Plan A -- the fouettés and especially the manège -- look underpowered and sloppy. What would be a better Plan A? I'm not sure... Maybe if she just did a manège she could stay in better form. I can't imagine leaps being incorporated because they wouldn't seem to go with the music, and Copeland is known for lack of ballon. (She's among the most earthbound jumpers I've ever seen at ABT.) Maybe she could do these to the fouetté music: https://youtu.be/UNOZpPsJgBQ?t=11m12s.

16 minutes ago, canbelto said:

I've noticed that most ABT dancers don't have a plan B when they falter. It's not just Misty. Sarah Lane in her O/O debut fell out of the final few revolutions during her fouettes and just stood there and looked crestfallen for the remainder of the music. 

If I remember correctly, there was that moment in which she looked crestfallen, but then she turned to the side and did an arabesque (not in the choreography) and held it for a bit to fill out the music. It's too bad she broke character, but I at least give her credit for doing something, and doing it well, to fill out the music (there wasn't much left, as I think she had already reached the high 20s in her fouetté sequence).

In certain moments -- like the hops on pointe in Giselle or the Rose Adagio -- I'm not sure what else you can do but soldier through as best as possible when things go awry momentarily. 

Edited April 11, 2018 by fondoffouettes

[nanushka]

11 minutes ago, canbelto said:

I've noticed that most ABT dancers don't have a plan B when they falter. It's not just Misty. Sarah Lane in her O/O debut fell out of the final few revolutions during her fouettes and just stood there and looked crestfallen for the remainder of the music. 

Stella Abrera in her Giselle variation also fell off pointe. She had to put her other foot down and then sort of continued but barely traveled across the stage.

I'm an admirer of both Stella and Sarah and think this lack of Plan B has to do with the way they are coached (or not being coached). 

Definitely. Though in the case of Sarah, in particular, it was also likely a result of her stepping into the role on fairly short notice and of the fouetté problem coming near the very end of the sequence, when it might have been too late to embark on any real Plan B.

(That's not to excuse her from the responsibility of trying to save the situation, of course — though I do seem to recall that she did more than just stand there looking crestfallen. I think crestfallen was more just her general demeanor through the rest of the act.)

[nanushka]

16 minutes ago, fondoffouettes said:

If I remember correctly, there was that moment in which she looked crestfallen, but then she turned to the side and did an arabesque (not in the choreography) and held it for a bit to fill out the music. It's too bad she broke character, but I at least give her credit for doing something, and doing it well, to fill out the music. 

Yes, this better fits my own memory of that moment. I believe she was downstage left (audience right), facing offstage in arabesque — and I think she held it pretty long, to fill out the music. (I think she may have done a jeté before the arabesque as well.) In any case, there wasn't time for a manege or anything like that. Whatever she did, it was quite probably improvised, as I don't think she would have foreseen needing to stop the fouettés that late in the sequence. (Probably like what happened to Misty in the video, if she planned to do 16 but only hit 12.)

Edited April 11, 2018 by nanushka

[nanushka]

15 minutes ago, fondoffouettes said:

In certain moments -- like the hops on pointe in Giselle or the Rose Adagio -- I'm not sure what else you can do but soldier through as best as possible when things go awry momentarily. 

I'm imagining a few different possible substitutions for the Giselle hops, but they're all just making me giggle.