Misty Copeland

[Amour]

I thought she looked too heavy and muscular in the SL costume, with her legs and arms looking very short. As far as her the dancing, what swan arms? I saw none. Her legs weren't straight, her arms and head totally unexpressive. I thought her line was quite ugly (certainly not classical). I know I've been spoiled by the Mariinsky SLs (I've seen 8 since last August) but I didn't see anything to admire with Misty. Right now, the only O/Os ABT has that I think are any good are Semionova and Veronica Part. And falling off pointe in SB. This has to be at least the 5th time I've seen Misty very obviously fall off pointe (the other 4 were in person). For me that is an unacceptable lack of technique for a principal (even a soloist). I simply will not pay to see that.

[canbelto]

It seems like a lot of objections to Misty's dancing are based on aesthetics. That's fine -- you like what you like to see, but as far as technical weaknesses, I don;t think Misty is weaker than, say, Hee Seo (who I've never seen make it through a ballet without a stumble, huge or small), or, if you walk over the plaza, to Maria Kowroski, whose attempts to dance tutu ballets (like the Symphony in C second movement I saw today or the Diamonds I saw last spring) have ended with her either: shaking violently, falling off pointe, falling period. For the record I like both Seo and Kowroski as dancers. I just think that Misty isn't technically as weak as many other principals/soloists.

[Amour]

I don't always love Maria K but I have never seen her (or anyone else at NYCB and I go all the time) fall off pointe. I just saw Maria 3 times, in Symph in C (on Friday) , Stravinsky Violin Concerto and Agon, and there were no major fumbles. In fact, Maria and Amar really killed it in the Agon PDD; the audience went crazy. I'm not a fan of Hee Seo. I think she's good in Ashton but, for example, was not good in last fall's Raymonda Variations. However, at least her line is better than Misty's.

[kfw]

It seems like a lot of objections to Misty's dancing are based on aesthetics. That's fine -- you like what you like to see, but as far as technical weaknesses, I don;t think Misty is weaker than, say, Hee Seo (who I've never seen make it through a ballet without a stumble, huge or small), or, if you walk over the plaza, to Maria Kowroski, whose attempts to dance tutu ballets (like the Symphony in C second movement I saw today or the Diamonds I saw last spring) have ended with her either: shaking violently, falling off pointe, falling period. For the record I like both Seo and Kowroski as dancers. I just think that Misty isn't technically as weak as many other principals/soloists.

Ballet is based on aesthetics. I haven't seen Hee Seo, but a lot of people complain about her lack of strength, so she's not a good comparison. As for Kowroski, I've seen performances where she could have used more strength. But this is late in her career.

[Kaysta]

Murphy isn't an adequate O/O? Why, because she's not Russian?

I don't think there was enough dancing of Misty shown in that segment for me to make the statement that she is the second coming of Lopatkina or that she is the worst thing ever. Heck, I wouldn't feel that I could sum up the potential of a dancer based off seeing them a few times either.

I've learned a lot on this board, but sometimes the absolute opinions (and elitism of some) drive me crazy. Like there is no gray, only black and white.

[MRR]

In defense of Maria K., I saw her Diamonds last year that Canbelto was referring to and I thought her fall was a due to a slippery part of the stage as opposed to a technical fault. For those who weren't there, she fell in the scherzo on the saute, pas de chat, soutenu sequence which she could probably do in her sleep. Of course it didn't help that her fall occurred during a solo on center stage, and she took awhile to regroup, but overall I found her performance technically much stronger than her Diamonds I saw in 2008.

[Amour]

Murphy isn't an adequate O/O?.

Sorry, forgot about Gillian. She's also worth seeing.

[MRR]

Murphy isn't an adequate O/O? Why, because she's not Russian?

Murphy's O/O in 2012 was an excellent performance, streets ahead of her O/O in the DVD with Corella (which was not bad but not particularly distinguished, especially Odette). Even if she doesn't have tremendous lines or the "Russian back," her O/O were engaging and alive and she found her perfect partner in Marcelo Gomes. I can't speak for any of her other Swan Lakes, but that one was impressive and I would recommend her SL in June.

[Amour]

Murphy isn't an adequate O/O? Why, because she's not Russian?

I don't think there was enough dancing of Misty shown in that segment for me to make the statement that she is the second coming of Lopatkina or that she is the worst thing ever. Heck, I wouldn't feel that I could sum up the potential of a dancer based off seeing them a few times either.

I've learned a lot on this board, but sometimes the absolute opinions (and elitism of some) drive me crazy. Like there is no gray, only black and white.

My comments were not based solely on the 60 minutes segment (except for SL) but also watching Misty live for more than a decade. Until this spring, when ABT had their Met season I would attend at least 2 performances a week. Last fall, I believe I saw 6 performances in their 10 day run. I'm not unacquainted with the dancing of Misty (or anyone else) at ABT.

[Kaysta]

My comments were not based solely on the 60 minutes segment (except for SL) but also watching Misty live for more than a decade. Until this spring, when ABT had their Met season I would attend at least 2 performances a week. Last fall, I believe I saw 6 performances in their 10 day run. I'm not unacquainted with the dancing of Misty (or anyone else) at ABT.

Trust me, your opinion has come across loud and clear. You don't like Misty Copeland's dancing or the "mediocrity" of ABT.

This statement is not directed at you, but I find the negativity (and outright vehemence) of some ardent outspoken balletomanes quite tiring. The day I feel it okay to say some of the negative things I've heard said about dancers like Copeland and Boylston, is the day I stop going to performances.

[mimsyb]

I don't always love Maria K but I have never seen her (or anyone else at NYCB and I go all the time) fall off pointe. I just saw Maria 3 times, in Symph in C (on Friday) , Stravinsky Violin Concerto and Agon, and there were no major fumbles. In fact, Maria and Amar really killed it in the Agon PDD; the audience went crazy. I'm not a fan of Hee Seo. I think she's good in Ashton but, for example, was not good in last fall's Raymonda Variations. However, at least her line is better than Misty's.

Maria danced Second in "Symphony in C" last year and fell off pointe on the "switch". Recovered quickly and with her usual aplomb. Had that small little smile on her face, as if to say, "oops, that doesn't happen very often". But really, dancers come off pointe all the time. It's how they recover that matters.

[Amour]

I'm sorry if I came across overly negative. I certainly don't want to diminish anyone's enjoyment of an art form I love. And despite where I think ABT is headed I'm still seeing 13 performances this Spring Season, including tonight's opening night. I just feel they're on the wrong track.

[sandik]

Many thanks for the 60 Minutes streaming link -- I had to be elsewhere this evening, but will watch tomorrow.

[Kaysta]

I'm sorry if I came across overly negative. I certainly don't want to diminish anyone's enjoyment of an art form I love. And despite where I think ABT is headed I'm still seeing 13 performances this Spring Season, including tonight's opening night. I just feel they're on the wrong track.

Not directed at you, just a tone I've noticed from some (definitely not all ).

[kaskait]

The recent 60 minute interview just confirmed why I don't want to waste money on any performances featuring Copeland. The fact that she pointed out that she can't hop on pointe and allowed 60 minutes to film the sloppy dancing is so brazen I can't even begin to fathom it. It is as if she is rubbing it in the faces of everyone who knows anything about ballet. It is as if she is saying I don't have to be able to do the steps, but I can be a principle dancer anyway.

[aurora]

The recent 60 minute interview just confirmed why I don't want to waste money on any performances featuring Copeland. The fact that she pointed out that she can't hop on pointe and allowed 60 minutes to film the sloppy dancing is so brazen I can't even begin to fathom it. It is as if she is rubbing it in the faces of everyone who knows anything about ballet. It is as if she is saying I don't have to be able to do the steps, but I can be a principle dancer anyway.

I'm sure that is what she is doing...rubbing it in people's faces that she isn't very good? (according to you).

By the way, there is a difference between principal (what you meant) and principle (what you wrote). Since you know things about ballet, I'm sure you appreciate knowing the difference.

[kaskait]

I'm sure that is what she is doing...rubbing it in people's faces that she isn't very good? (according to you).

By the way, there is a difference between principal (what you meant) and principle (what you wrote). Since you know things about ballet, I'm sure you appreciate knowing the difference.

Besides pointing out my typo, why do YOU think she should be promoted? Please, spin that sloppy dancing and weak feet into a paradigm of classical dance. Copeland can't compete and she is leveling the playing field with an affirmative action, pity story. There are already black dancers in many companies, including her own (Courtney Lavine) who can dance rings around her.

And we already have a reason why she can't hop on pointe, falls off point and has stiff feet. She started late training and was prematurely put on pointe after only 3 months of training. It is no wonder her legs are an awful, hyper-extended mess. She is heading for another injury for that alone.

[abatt]

Have not yet seen the interview. However, if you want to see perfect hops on pointe head to NYCB and see the young corps member Alexa Maxwell in her first soloist role (in Walpurgisnact Ballet). Perfect technique. sparkling, clean footwork. Destined for big things, I believe.

[kfw]

Once Copeland agreed to let 60 Minutes film her solo, she probably had no say in what part of it they chose to show, and she probably didn't expect it would be the part she told them was weak..

[Drew]

Once Copeland agreed to let 60 Minutes film her solo, she probably had no say in what part of it they chose to show, and she probably didn't expect it would be the part she told them was weak..

Completely agree--actually the reporter commented that Copeland looked upset with herself when coming off stage and she certainly can't control what CBS decides to show on 60 minutes. The idea that she is being "brazen" and "rubbing it in people's faces" when she has trouble in hops on pointe in a major part defies credibility. Of course one can just choose to project every negative characteristic imaginable onto her, but that's not serious criticism and has nothing to do with her dancing. It's also not fair.

I was most struck with the story of how she pushed herself to go on in Firebird even injured (confirmed injury, since in the end it knocked her off the stage for a long time)...and in part because she felt the pressure of all the people in the audience who were coming specifically to see her.

I couldn't make much of the dance snippets on CBS though I thought the Tharp looked like it might be terrific.

Seeing the Bluebird costume, I did wonder if the "after Bakst" costume idea was really going to work in the theater; that's nothing to do with Copeland. But while individual costumes from the production have looked gorgeous in photos--others, not so much.

[abatt]

It showed her humanity and also highlighted how difficult the work is that ballet dancers do. I think that's part of the reason why 60 Minutes showed footage containing the error and her reaction to her error.

[kaskait]

Completely agree--actually the reporter commented that Copeland looked upset with herself when coming off stage and she certainly can't control what CBS decides to show on 60 minutes. The idea that she is being "brazen" and "rubbing it in people's faces" when she has trouble in hops on pointe in a major part defies credibility. Of course one can just choose to project every negative characteristic imaginable onto her, but that's not serious criticism and has nothing to do with her dancing. It's also not fair.

I was most struck with the story of how she pushed herself to go on in Firebird even injured (confirmed injury, since in the end it knocked her off the stage for a long time)...and in part because she felt the pressure of all the people in the audience who were coming specifically to see her.

I couldn't make much of the dance snippets on CBS though I thought the Tharp looked like it might be terrific.

Seeing the Bluebird costume, I did wonder if the "after Bakst" costume idea was really going to work in the theater; that's nothing to do with Copeland. But while individual costumes from the production have looked gorgeous in photos--others, not so much.

She mentioned it specifically to waylay complaints about her lack of technique. And the 60 minute video clearly shows all the things I've disliked in her dancing and written here on this forum. Her arms were messy as she rushes to find the next pose. As long as she hits that pose everything else in between (the actual dancing) is a mess. And of course she made that face, that grimace plus licking her lips as she begun to fall off pointe during those hops in SB. And 60 minutes was merciful, they cut just as her ankle collapsed underneath her. You can see it, she is not on full pointe but hopping almost on the side of her foot.

And the fact that she pushed herself into performing on an injury was not fair to her audience as well as to herself. I and others have pointed out her hyper-extended legs over and over. And considering her past injury (broken tibia bones), that was a direct result of her hyper-extension.

[Helene]

I've seen weak dancers in my decades of ballet-going and dancers that I didn't like, but I've never seen a soloist or higher in a major company who has not pushed out retirement that fits kaskait's description, let alone Copeland, whom I've seen dance.

There are many great dancers with hyperextended knees. PNB's Patricia Barker described in a lec-demo how this made it difficult for her partners to balance her on pointe, especially in supported pirouettes.

[kaskait]

I've seen weak dancers in my decades of ballet-going and dancers that I didn't like, but I've never seen a soloist or higher in a major company who has not pushed out retirement that fits kaskait's description, let alone Copeland, whom I've seen dance.

There are many great dancers with hyperextended knees. PNB's Patricia Barker described in a lec-demo how this made it difficult for her partners to balance her on pointe, especially in supported pirouettes.

Helene please explain the weak ankle that is harrowing to look at in the 60 minute video. According to Copeland's own words it is a common difficulty in her variation. I've never seen other dancers struggle with such a step.

Here random video of a dancer from the internet performing a variation on Florentine. Look at the ankles, strong and straight underneath her. Plus she hopped into full arabesque.

http://www.media4artists.com/video/index.php?video=6

Copeland by contrast barely made it into attitude.

There is no reason why Copeland should be having a problem with a basic step. Especially when everyone else can do it and it is expected that they do it without mishap.

I'm not going to condone hyper-extension. It is a gross deformity and it is exceedingly dangerous to the dancer. Either schools and companies should help dancers overcome this problem, if possible, or tell them they must leave ballet to protect their health.

ETA: The video is of Washington Ballet dancer Ayano Kimura.

[Drew]

And the fact that she pushed herself into performing on an injury was not fair to her audience as well as to herself.

People who saw those performances didn't report her looking injured or giving a weak performance. In fact, her performance in Firebird is the one for which she has most consistently received raves including from people who don't seem to like her in anything else. In this particular case of her performing injured I don't think there was unfairness to the audience though indeed Copeland may have been being unfair to herself.

(Dancers dance injured all the time not to disappoint audiences--sometimes some of the audience can tell the difference; sometimes not...God knows people are disappointed when a dancer they especially want to see has to cancel. For all dancers with ardent fan bases it presumably can be something of a challenge to know when to cancel and when to dance anyway (like an opera singer with a sore throat). Copeland, at any rate, has shown she is not indifferent to her audience. I admire several ballerinas of greater fame and accomplishment than Copeland--but I'm not convinced that they lose much (or any) sleep over disappointed fans when they cancel. So I appreciated her attitude.)

Hyper-extension permeates the ballet world today. Copeland hardly seems the most egregious example.