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Just now, DanielBenton said:

I was also thinking of Merce Cunningham and how sometimes he is reminiscent of Balanchine (and Picasso/cubism).

This comparison was made frequently throughout their creative lives.

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25 minutes ago, sandik said:

There are a lot of interesting points being raised here about specific elements of composition and other aesthetic choices, but I was thinking more broadly.  Picasso's career spanned a fascinating part of western art history, as well as being an example of someone who moved through a number of distinct "periods" -- your can trace his development on its own, or you can trace it as an example of the major movements in art history. 

You can certainly make a case for a stylistic relationship between the two in some cases, though I think there are other choreographers who fit that more clearly (thinking about Graham, certainly, and other more radical moderns).  But I think you can make a stronger case for this comparison when you look at the general arc of their careers and their centrality to their art forms as a whole.

At first glance, I would agree with this completely, Sandik.

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"When Sergei Diaghilev was educating his young proteges to become choreographers for the Ballets Russes, he used to walk them around the great art galleries of Europe: pointing out the grouping of figures in a Renaissance painting, or the mechanistic energies of futurist art. Diaghilev understood that the principles of composing bodies and space in art were closely allied to those of dance."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/stage/2013/jul/26/artists-choreographers-dance-in-art

This is the quote that began this discussion. Looking at an interview from a few years ago with Suzanne Farrell, who might be seen as a continuation of this thinking through her choreographer, George Balanchine, she expresses something somewhat different and more abstract from what’s been discussed.

“ I often take EBSF [her former summer teaching program] participants to the National Gallery of Art because I want them to see how artists use color and texture and perspective in different ways to make paintings come alive. I want the dancers to see art in a different way, so they can enhance their own dancing through different art forms. Sometimes I ask my students to choreograph a little piece on a sculpture or painting that impressed them so I can find out more about their individualities.

https://dancetabs.com/2015/10/interview-suzanne-farrell-artistic-director-2/

Added: As an aside, Suzanne Farrell asked her students “to choreograph a little piece on a sculpture or painting.” I once saw a brief segment of Diana Vishneva trying to express, not a work of art, but a tree. I believe that this is a standard type of theatrical exercise, but she made it a magnificent 'dance-like' statement.

Edited by Buddy
"Added" added
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Natalia Goncharova, who did sets and costumes for Diaghilev, and an important painter on her own, was very recently the subject of a Tate Museum show in London. The last painting in the link below, Peasants Picking Apples, looks as if it could be hanging in an Lower East Side gallery today, perhaps alongside one of Nicole Eisenman's works.

What's interesting about the Russian Futurists that Judith Mackrell refers to in Buddy's link above – Kandinsky, Mondrian and all – is how they deploy space, or objects in space, as on a stage floor, like a kind of Labanotation, rather than through a proscenium or in Renaissance perspective. The pictorial elements push and pull against each another and there is no wasted space. Even in Goncharova's paintings every corner is activated, up and down as well as side to side.

https://www.tate.org.uk/whats-on/tate-modern/exhibition/natalia-goncharova

Edited by Quiggin
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40 minutes ago, Quiggin said:

Natalia Goncharova, who did sets and costumes for Diaghilev, and an important painter on her own, was very recently the subject of a Tate Museum show in London. The last painting in the link below, Peasants Picking Apples, looks as if it could be hanging in an Lower East Side gallery today, perhaps alongside one of Nicole Eisenman's works.

What's interesting about the Russian Futurists that Judith Mackrell refers to in Buddy's link above – Kandinsky, Mondrian and all – is how they deploy space, or objects in space, as on a stage floor, like a kind of Labanotation, rather than through a proscenium or in Renaissance perspective. The pictorial elements push and pull against each another and there is no wasted space. Even in Goncharova's paintings every corner is activated, up and down as well as side to side.

https://www.tate.org.uk/whats-on/tate-modern/exhibition/natalia-goncharova

Thanks, Quiggin. I looked up "Labanotation"(" Labanotation or Kinetography Laban is a notation system for recording and analyzing human movement that was derived from the work of Rudolf Laban...." (Wikipedia). Guessing your background, the image pages reminded me of decorations by the architect Frank Lloyd Wright, who claimed to use musical structure, etc. as a basic element.

I'd like to get back to this later, but what about "color and texture" (Suzanne Farrell), which are two words that really interest me ? Is this structure, emotion or what ? 

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I don't know which painters Suzanne Farrell was referring to at the National Gallery. She could have been pointing to one of the impressionist works such as Monet's Garden at Vetheuil. Or maybe to the to one of the Washington school of Color Field painters such as Morris Louis. The Monet has both color and texture, the Louises use color as structure.

Monet:

https://www.nga.gov/collection/art-object-page.52358.html

Morris Louis:

https://www.nga.gov/collection/art-object-page.52382.html

Stuart Davis:

https://www.nga.gov/collection/art-object-page.166441.html

Veronese [red pushing against blue?]:

https://www.nga.gov/collection/art-object-page.46146.html

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3 hours ago, Quiggin said:

I don't know which painters Suzanne Farrell was referring to at the National Gallery. She could have been pointing to one of the impressionist works such as Monet's Garden at Vetheuil. Or maybe to the to one of the Washington school of Color Field painters such as Morris Louis. The Monet has both color and texture, the Louises use color as structure.

Monet:

https://www.nga.gov/collection/art-object-page.52358.html

Morris Louis:

https://www.nga.gov/collection/art-object-page.52382.html

Stuart Davis:

https://www.nga.gov/collection/art-object-page.166441.html

Veronese [red pushing against blue?]:

https://www.nga.gov/collection/art-object-page.46146.html

 

3 hours ago, Quiggin said:

I don't know which painters Suzanne Farrell was referring to at the National Gallery. She could have been pointing to one of the impressionist works such as Monet's Garden at Vetheuil. Or maybe to the to one of the Washington school of Color Field painters such as Morris Louis. The Monet has both color and texture, the Louises use color as structure.

Monet:

https://www.nga.gov/collection/art-object-page.52358.html

Morris Louis:

https://www.nga.gov/collection/art-object-page.52382.html

Stuart Davis:

https://www.nga.gov/collection/art-object-page.166441.html

Veronese [red pushing against blue?]:

https://www.nga.gov/collection/art-object-page.46146.html

Thanks again, Quiggin. This is a very interesting selection of paintings that I would like to take a better look at in the morning.

My question is more how does "color and texture" (Suzanne Farrell) show itself in dance, especially in highly refined ballet? Is it nuancing? If you compared Galina Ulanova and Oxana Skorik performing the White Swan duet from Swan Lake, for instance, where might this show?

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I hadn't known any of this before and this is an immensely fascinating topic! Thank you to everyone for sharing their knowledge. It opened up a whole new world of things to think about when watching ballet and to research, at least for me it did.

Often a ballet (especially live!) will leave an impression on me that I cannot express in words, so I'll try to find a painting that reminds me of it. It's still not enough to replicate the feelings, but it's closer than any words I can string together!

On 10/6/2019 at 11:28 PM, Buddy said:

My question is more how does "color and texture" (Suzanne Farrell) show itself in dance, especially in highly refined ballet? Is it nuancing? If you compared Galina Ulanova and Oxana Skorik performing the White Swan duet from Swan Lake, for instance, where might this show?

Since I'm not the person who posted the article I hope I'm not intruding, but sometimes I find something almost like synesthesia. I find that Galina Ulanova uses her arms in a manner that looks "rich" but also very soft and delicate and it reminds me of white rose petals or the texture of  velvet. I wonder if that would be an example of "texture" in dance?

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On 10/16/2019 at 10:27 AM, A1EV3 said:

I find that Galina Ulanova uses her arms in a manner that looks "rich" but also very soft and delicate and it reminds me of white rose petals or the texture of  velvet. I wonder if that would be an example of "texture" in dance?

Thanks for your interest and response, A1EV3. I'm in the middle of traveling and watching ballet performances, but will try to respond at another time.

What you say here is very appropriate. I'm still searching for a good connection in any of the paintings that I've seen.

Edited by Buddy
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This is an interesting article.

“Dancers bring sculpture gallery to life”

“The museum setting allows dance artists to engage with and interpret the artworks in a way that transforms both artwork and dancer, in a synthesis that generates new and exhilarating meanings and possibilities.”

"Ghiaroni took the theme of opposed harmony - typical of Dadaist artworks - and translated it into choreography using contrasting movements."

Here's a quick video glimpse.

 

The entire (11 minutes) video can be seen here for $3.00. I've watched it once and think that it's quite well done. 

https://artsfundi.com

Here's the article.

https://www.iol.co.za/weekend-argus/news/dancers-bring-sculpture-gallery-to-life-87e45595-b7c5-4619-ba56-1982252bc2d9

(Thanks to Jan McNulty at BalletcoForum)

Added comment:

I've been to southern Africa twice in the last four years and hope to return next August. For me, the final image from the video of the dancers entwined in a huge, forest-like sculpture hints at the complexity, poetry and social reality of life in South Africa.

Edited by Buddy
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Buddy, an interesting topic.  My contribution to it will be focused on or tend to be focused on female artists.  This picture is “Marche aux chevaux de Paris” (The Horse Fair of Paris, 1853) by Rosa Bonheur (b. 1822 in Bordeaux, Gironde, France).  The main subject of the painting is not people, but horses, however it is full of action and motion and so I feel it fits your topic.  I see the painting as presenting an attempt by the intellect, the human handlers, to control animal emotion, the horses.  The sense of drama is enhanced by the ominous darkening sky, the row of dark trees and by the dome of the asylum of Salpetriere in the background.  A wild dance is suggested by the circling horses.  Rosa Bonheur worked on this painting for a year and a half and had to get police permission to dress in man’s clothes while she did.  The painting can be seen here: https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/435702.  Click on the image to enlarge.

A second work is “The Vine” (1924) by Harriet Whitney Frishmuth (b. 1880 in Philadelphia).  This is a life sized bronze sculpture.  While it does not show an interaction between dancers, as it is an image of only one person, it is very much about dance and along with its name also fits in with your other topic “Dance Flows - Nature Flows.”  The dancer Desha Delteil (b. listed dates vary from 1892 to 1900) of the Fokine Ballet posed for the work.  This work is now in the American Wing of the NY Metropolitan Museum of Art.  Here is a video (2 minutes) produced by the Met with a narrator discussing the “The Vine,” its artist and its model and showing the work from different angles.  (Brief black and white photograph of the nude model shown.)   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYSn5yv4ZkU.  The Met also produced a second video featuring “The Vine.”  This one is entitled “A Body Responds in Dance” and is also two minutes long.  The dancer is Francesca Harper: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5vL5FtLP.  Another work by Harriet Frishmuth for which Desha Delteil posed is “The Bubble” (1928).  Here is a video (5 minutes) narrated by Rachel Nard that features “The Bubble:” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJvgRAKrGnw.  Harriet Whitney Frishmuth did a number of works portraying both the male and female nude, however, it seems that the larger of these works are all female.  Here is an image of a nude, by Harriet Frishmuth, of the dancer Leon Barte also of the Fokin Ballet entitled “Slavonic Dancer” (1921): https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/487258.  Finally it appears that the dancer Desha Delteil danced with a bubble in a 1920 silent, color short entitled “The Bubble.”  I say it appears due to a difference in dates of birth.

Tom, 

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On 1/19/2021 at 9:15 AM, Tom47 said:

Buddy, an interesting topic.  My contribution to it will be focused on or tend to be focused on female artists. 

Hi, Tom, and thank you for your post which is very much appreciated. Since dance is an art without words, can I try to respond and carry on the general thread of this topic without words. 


Maria Kochetkova  Laser  
https://www.instagram.com/p/CFKVKD3BGnq/

 

Dancer  The Vine

 

Sandro Boticelli  detail Birth of Venus
Venere-di-Botticelli-volto-viso.jpg

 

Sandro Boticelli detail Primavera
hqdefault.jpg

 

Edited by Buddy
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