"Black Swan"

[duffster]

I still love watching Gene Kelly's dancing in an American in Paris, and in Singing in the Rain, Donald O'Connors amazing rendition of Make em Laugh - now that really makes me smile every time I see it.

[dirac]

Might be nice to stay closer to the topic. Looking forward to more reviews of "Black Swan" from BTers who see it.

[spot-spot]

While I liked Black Swan, I can not say that I enjoyed Black Swan. The shaky camera made me tense and edgy from the opening scene but I guess that is the point. Portman's acting is fine, however she never captured the look, especially in the limited rehearsal/performance shots. A creepy movie, but I would recommend.

[cubanmiamiboy]

Which was the last "ballet film" before this..."Center Stage"...?

Edited to add: No...that would be "Mao's..."

Well, the point when I asked, if it was "CS" then we're going into a slow but ascending line.

[balletgirl22sk]

I saw it last night and as a former professional dancer, I liked it. I read enough about it here and in reviews that I knew what to expect.

[4mrdncr]

I saw it some weeks ago, and thankfully didn't pay because my mother wanted to see it. I agree with "vipa"'s review and later comments, Leigh's laments, the misogynistic subtext of the writer& director (or as someone wrote, 'a teenage boy's wet dream'), and Ms. O'Conner's analysis of the film as another "wages of art" cliche. My first reaction is that it was silly and boring and I couldn't wait for the 1-2 seconds of actual ballet sequences. On the surface, its plot is simply about a paranoid schizophrenic,that happens to be set in a dance company. And not a very real one at that. The film also has a number of major problems such as nonexistant character and plot development.

The biggest problem is that the central character, Nina, is unstable throughout:

She's crazy at the start of the film, crazy in the middle, and crazy at the end so there's no character development. Her impressions and musings are all 'sick fantasies'; UNREAL. Consequently, if everything that follows that's out-of-the-ordinary must be in her mind, there is also no 'guessing game' about what is real, or not,--ie. no "Sixth Sense" plot twists either. (Though there is an laughable attempt near the end)

So...if I know that everything Nina sees/does is unreal, then I'm not invested in the character or her nonexistant journey. The thrill becomes a question of how 'over-the-top' the director is going to go to transform her into his fantasy of a black swan. Nothing matters except waiting for the final crack-up. Her continuous hyperventilating also got annoying, and (another level of unreality) anyone in that state would never have the stamina to dance O/O anyways. All the sexual, bloody machinations in the middle third of the film became the pointless meanderings of a deranged mind,and because of that, boring delays until "THE BIG CRACK-UP" at the end--which also was entirely predictable. (Though I agree with the review that caught the "sly homage to The Red Shoes" in that final leap). Watching the film, I yearned for the 2-seconds of actual dancing that was visible in the rehearsals, and I hoped the 'grand guignol' ending would come quicker, or someone would shoot Nina and put her (and us) out of her/our misery.

IN SHORT:

NO character development because she never changes--it's all just a crazy (male director/writer's) fantasy

NO plot development, since we already know everything that happens is UNREAL

NO point or pointe.

I did like the color scheme of the production design. I only hope the film makes enough money so that all the real dancers get some good "residuals" and maybe silly, stupid, misogynistic Hollywood will realize "ballet" is not a bad word.

[GNicholls]

I didn't care for Black Swan. As a self-described "psycho-sexual thriller" it may appeal to some. But I didn't get any sense of ballet as an art form or of Swan Lake as a work of art.

Regarding Swan Lake as a work of art, one thing that that interests me about this ballet is the extent to which the composer's musical persona pervades and dominates. This works through "ballet symphonism:" stretched-out melodies and delayed chord resolutions leaving the key ambivalent, supported by Tchaikovsky's dramatic use of instrumentation, textures, and dynamics, all conveying yearning, passion, and an overarching sense of fate. And then there are the contrasting deft and dancelike passages too.

In addition to portraying both Odette and Odile, I think the prima ballerina's challeges include "standing up" to the composer's sometimes hyper-emotional and sometimes charming and amiable musical persona and not succumbing to it. When I see the great prima ballerinas triumph in this role I think "Tchaikovsky, you've met your equal." As for Aronofsky, maybe he missed the point.

[EvilNinjaX]

I finally saw BLACK SWAN even though I've been less and less interested in it the more i've heard of it. I think expectations are key in this movie and that first and foremost (as has been mentioned upstream), it's not a "ballet movie", it's a psychological, erotic thriller that takes place with a ballet backdrop a la Benjamin Button (for instance). Being mad at Aranofsky for not being more true to ballet is like being angry at Ghostbusters for not being insightful or correct about paranormal activities. The story and the "thriller" aspect is the key and the ballet-ness will be leveraged and manipulated in service to that.

Now having said that, I think the thriller stuff misses the mark on a number of fronts, most notably in what was mentioned previously: the character of Nina is (a) unlikeable and non-sympathetic, (b) lacking depth, © not particularly interesting, and (d) has no growth. These are all related and comes from the aforementioned focus on the Thriller nature. The single most important aspect of the movie is creating an eerie atmosphere and manipulating reality. Nina's character suffers for this. The reality is established in as much of a cinematic shorthand as possible so that it can play upon the implicit expectations the viewer has to trick you and cause uncertainty. This is fine and well, but what it means is that there's little meaningful exploration of Nina's character. The story does sort of try to give us an idea that she grows and gives us a painfully obvious symbol (Nina dumping her childhood stuffed animals into the trash), but what WAS that growth/change? In the end, she's EXACTLY the same as before except that she gave a good performance.

That Portman is mostly given histrionics to work with doesn't help and she veers from scenery chewing ambulations of one sort or another here and there that are so wildly expressed that it feels nearly caricaturish. She's a immature child so utterly dependant upon her mother, she's virgin with no understanding of human relations, she's a rebellious "teen"-ish, she's an OCD perfectionist, etc. etc. It is to Portman's credit that these wild performances are watchable and in fact, it has such energy to it that it has a certain appeal especially in the atmospheric context that Aranofsky gives us.

But it's a lot of pizzazz and no heart; there's nothing REAL to hold onto and so instead of being invested in this character and really caring about the reality she's in and the future that she heading towards, we are left with observing this interesting little puzzle-story and trying to piece things together. Was the mother real? Which of the interactions with Lily are real? Which of her visions does she really see? Was she really drugged? Does she really make love to those guys? What does she actually do with that knife? Which of the interactions with Vincent Cassell are real? etc. etc. But the additional problem here is that there is no clear answer and while you could speculate and invent a story to validate it, in the end, it just doesn't matter and so the movie itself falls short because of it.

In many ways, it reminds me of INCEPTION. Inception is a well-crafted, beautiful film but it never engaged me and i felt on the outside all the time and the film seems just like an interesting little puzzle that, in the end, doesn't really mean anything at all.

While Aranofsky claimed his initial inspiration for the film was to make a live-action Swan Lake, it really doesn't seem that way. Yes, Vincent Cassell plays the Von Rothbart in that he is creating Odile out of Odette, but that's all that really matches. We're only TOLD that Nina is a "perfect Odette" but we never get the idea that she is. And it also seems like the film misses a fantastic opportunity to investigate something not explicit in the Swan Lake story (afaik), the origin of Odile. What exactly is Odile and where does she come from? What is her motivation? Was she also once a princess? Etc. etc.

It's also important to realize that this is a genre film and that there are conventions and things that are acceptable--even desirable--for a genre film. Personally, I am sick to death of the doppelganger in the mirror horror movie trope and if i never see it again, i won't mind. But it's not out of place here. The sudden lights out bit is certainly acceptable. And really, for what it is, it does a good job. In fact, huge kudos to Aranofsky and Portman and veyr notably Cassell for making this movie so vibrant, electric, and crackling on the screen. While i was aware of problmatic elements, the movie kept my focus and held me to the screen and there's a sequence that literally sent a chill down my back and gave me goosebumps (the one with the pictures on the walls animating). It's paced very well. Acting is very good, with some excellent performances; i would say Portman's acting, while a bit obvious, is perfect for this context and Cassell is magnificent. Mila Kunis was fine and could have been replaced by just about anyone, i think; ditto Winona Ryder. While it was perhaps a bit silly to have EVERY piece of music be Swan Lake from the musical scores to the performance music (natch) to a music box to her ringtone, it works. And it is amazing how powerful Tchaikovsky's music is in setting mood in this film. So dramatic.

So what's my conclusion? I think it's a fine genre film. It has a flawed story with some ridiculous plot elements, flat characters, but as it unfolds, it is interesting and held my attention. If you replaced Portman with Megan Fox and Aranofsky with the director of LAW ABIDING CITIZEN, then you'd probably have some marginally watchable Direct to DVD movie.

And even as I write this, the film has been garnering all sorts of accolades and may be in the running for Best Picture. But the movie has no real substance and is all flash and style meant to mesmerize and seduce you. Sounds familiar? Apparently, Aranofsky is the real Von Rothbart and the movie BLACK SWAN is the black swan and meanwhile we, the audience, are Siegfried.

-goro-

[lmspear]

Accidental duplicate post. Please delete. Thanks.

[lmspear]

While Aranofsky claimed his initial inspiration for the film was to make a live-action Swan Lake, it really doesn't seem that way. Yes, Vincent Cassell plays the Von Rothbart in that he is creating Odile out of Odette, but that's all that really matches. We're only TOLD that Nina is a "perfect Odette" but we never get the idea that she is. And it also seems like the film misses a fantastic opportunity to investigate something not explicit in the Swan Lake story (afaik), the origin of Odile. What exactly is Odile and where does she come from? What is her motivation? Was she also once a princess? Etc. etc.

Friends and I have often played at trying to fill in the blanks in the story. Aronofsky missed the boat as the script reduces the descriptions of the two swans to pure and sensual, good and evil, black and white. Odile isn't seducing Sigfried for her own pleasure, she's doing a job to please "Daddy" Von Rothbart. Odette is fighting for her life and freedom, the story told is that she must find a man who will love and be true to her, it doesn't state that she must love the prince, just that she must take a gamble and make the right choice if she is ever to become a full-time human being again.

The printed versions of the story always identify Odile as Von Rothbart's daughter. How does she imitate Odette so convincingly. The short answer is Von Rothbart's magic. Another possible answer (developed playing fill in the blanks in the plot with friends) is that Odette is also Rothbart's daughter. Odette's mime in act II states that the lake is filled with her mothers tears. We don't know if the mother and Von Rothbart started out as a happy couple or if she was tricked and trapped into the relationship. Did she die or escape and have to leave her daughter behind for whatever unknown reason. It's plausible that the angry grieving magician devised a spell which would keep his daughter with him for ever. We see Odette place herself between Sigfried's crossbow and Von Rothbart and know on a gut level that patricide isn't an option if the spell is to be broken.

It's not just the shared DNA that makes Odile's deception possible. She spent her life observing her big sister. This adds the possibility of serious sibling rivalry issues between O/O.

[JMcN]

Here's a link to what British film magazine Empire thinks of Black Swan: http://www.empireonline.com/reviews/reviewcomplete.asp?FID=136504

[GNicholls]

I think expectations are key in this movie and that first and foremost (as has been mentioned upstream), it's not a "ballet movie", it's a psychological, erotic thriller that takes place with a ballet backdrop a la Benjamin Button (for instance). Being mad at Aranofsky for not being more true to ballet is like being angry at Ghostbusters for not being insightful or correct about paranormal activities. The story and the "thriller" aspect is the key and the ballet-ness will be leveraged and manipulated in service to that.

I have no stake in the ballet world and only became interested in watching and learning about ballet during the past year. I agree with many excellent points made by EvilNinjaX but I think that ballet in Black Swan is more than a backdrop. And here's the problem. It distresses me that the assembled references in Black Swan are so tilted to the negative -- anorexia, abusive choreographer, obsessive behaviour, injured feet, cutthroat competition, smoking ballerinas, frustrated/controlling mother. I think the film kind of buries ballet -- it's like ballet is so over.

[vipa]

Forgive me if this has already been mentioned. Brian Lehrer (the wonderful wnyc radio host) had a fun segment asking dancers to call in with opinions on Black Swan. It was aired on Jan. 4. Here's the link.

http://www.wnyc.org/shows/bl/2011/jan/04/dancers-black-swan/

Love to know what you all think

[EvilNinjaX]

I think expectations are key in this movie and that first and foremost (as has been mentioned upstream), it's not a "ballet movie", it's a psychological, erotic thriller that takes place with a ballet backdrop a la Benjamin Button (for instance). Being mad at Aranofsky for not being more true to ballet is like being angry at Ghostbusters for not being insightful or correct about paranormal activities. The story and the "thriller" aspect is the key and the ballet-ness will be leveraged and manipulated in service to that.

I have no stake in the ballet world and only became interested in watching and learning about ballet during the past year. I agree with many excellent points made by EvilNinjaX but I think that ballet in Black Swan is more than a backdrop. And here's the problem. It distresses me that the assembled references in Black Swan are so tilted to the negative -- anorexia, abusive choreographer, obsessive behaviour, injured feet, cutthroat competition, smoking ballerinas, frustrated/controlling mother. I think the film kind of buries ballet -- it's like ballet is so over.

I get what you're saying, but i think Aranofsky NEEDED those qualities in Nina so that the overarching psychosis makes sense. She's a particular type of psychotic person that happens to be a ballerina. Were this to have been in the realm of stage plays instead of ballet and the role to have been sometihng like Lady Macbeth or something, i think she would have been equally nonsensically bizarre. I think it's convenient that there are these shortcut stereotypes that Aranofsky could leverage to construct the framework of the Nina character.

But i do think you do hit on one thing that's quite notable. This movie gives the "normal" audience no real sense of WHY people love ballet. WHY audiences love it or WHY the dancers would want to do it. There's a noticeable lack of joy in this movie, except for perhaps 2 points: (1) when Nina is cast and (2) When she completes the performance.

-goro-

[Syrene Hvid]

I've already decided I won't be watching this movie. I'm not into thrillers generally and from what I have gathered so far about Black Swan, it would just make me pointlessly annoyed about its use of ballet and Swan Lake motifs. I do like Natalie Portman, but this film bugs me on every essential level, especially if people who have watched it begin showing an interest in ballet and then get disappointed by the original work's lack of psychotic lesbianism etc.

However, I also just wanted to point out that the Danish Royal Ballet has arranged a competition where participants can win two tickets for the preview of the movie in Denmark here at the end of January. At this preview, several dancers, former dancers and directors from the company will attend. This I found pretty interesting and hope they gather for a talk about it afterwards - or at least mention it on the official homepage. I would be really interested in hearing what the company as a whole made of the movie or what individual dancers thought of it. Especially since they staged Swan Lake autumn last year.

[Simon G]

This was in today's Guardian (UK). They took several British ballet stars, movers and shakers to a preview and this is what they made of it:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/stage/2011/jan/05/black-swan-natalie-portman-tamara-rojo

Predictably Tamara Rojo was very scathing, but she does have a slightly "precious" attitude to ballet as "sacred" art the others however took it in the spirit of it being a Hollywood thriller and a melodramatic bit of fluff. Which is probably the best way to approach it.

[macnellie]

Black Swan Goes Retail.

I was a ballet dancer in a major American ballet company. Now, years later, I am a sales clerk at perhaps the “most major” designer clothing store in the Western world. Why not make a movie about us? “The Sales Associates.” We too have anorexia, violent love affairs, sexual dysfunction, and really bad mothers. There are grave battles among us for the prize of Saudi princesses and Russian oligarchs. A wretched young man in designer shoes swallowed a boot—and an aging prima sales associate poured perfume down her rival’s ear—where did she get that idea! Now that I’m no longer a dancer I finally have drama, drama, drama every day! My ballet life was boring: we practiced—we sewed our shoes, we washed our tights, performed, had love affairs –listened to music --made lifelong friends—slept badly—slept well…oh well….

[dirac]

This was in today's Guardian (UK). They took several British ballet stars, movers and shakers to a preview and this is what they made of it:

http://www.guardian....man-tamara-rojo

Predictably Tamara Rojo was very scathing, but she does have a slightly "precious" attitude to ballet as "sacred" art the others however took it in the spirit of it being a Hollywood thriller and a melodramatic bit of fluff. Which is probably the best way to approach it.

I like that remark in the comments suggesting that the Guardian send a reporter out to gauge local reactions to "The Wicker Man." "Well, yes, but it was all so ridiculously exaggerated. Our schoolgirls stage nude fertility dances round campfires only on very special occasions and the mainland policeman wasn't burnt alive, we just singed his fingers a bit."

[EvilNinjaX]

Black Swan Goes Retail.

I was a ballet dancer in a major American ballet company. Now, years later, I am a sales clerk at perhaps the “most major” designer clothing store in the Western world. Why not make a movie about us? “The Sales Associates.” We too have anorexia, violent love affairs, sexual dysfunction, and really bad mothers. There are grave battles among us for the prize of Saudi princesses and Russian oligarchs. A wretched young man in designer shoes swallowed a boot—and an aging prima sales associate poured perfume down her rival’s ear—where did she get that idea! Now that I’m no longer a dancer I finally have drama, drama, drama every day! My ballet life was boring: we practiced—we sewed our shoes, we washed our tights, performed, had love affairs –listened to music --made lifelong friends—slept badly—slept well…oh well….

Isn't that THE DEVIL WEARS PRADA?

-goro-

[richard53dog]

Black Swan Goes Retail.

I was a ballet dancer in a major American ballet company. Now, years later, I am a sales clerk at perhaps the “most major” designer clothing store in the Western world. Why not make a movie about us? “The Sales Associates.” We too have anorexia, violent love affairs, sexual dysfunction, and really bad mothers. There are grave battles among us for the prize of Saudi princesses and Russian oligarchs. A wretched young man in designer shoes swallowed a boot—and an aging prima sales associate poured perfume down her rival’s ear—where did she get that idea! Now that I’m no longer a dancer I finally have drama, drama, drama every day! My ballet life was boring: we practiced—we sewed our shoes, we washed our tights, performed, had love affairs –listened to music --made lifelong friends—slept badly—slept well…oh well….

Isn't that THE DEVIL WEARS PRADA?

-goro-

:clapping: :clapping:

[canbelto]

Did anyone catch Jim Carrey's parody of Black Swan on SNL? It was a pretty good riff on the movie.

[vipa]

Did anyone catch Jim Carrey's parody of Black Swan on SNL? It was a pretty good riff on the movie.

I saw it and it was pretty funny.

I also heard the opinion expressed that this movie is perfect for a cult following & midnight showings in which people come in costumes and speak the lines - I can see that. When I thought about my dislike of the movie I realized that I would have enjoyed it more if I thought of it more as real camp.

My prediction is that Portman will win an Oscar because of all the publicity around her training and weight loss!

[abatt]

I realized that I would have enjoyed it more if I thought of it more as real camp.

My prediction is that Portman will win an Oscar because of all the publicity around her training and weight loss!

My problem with the movie is that it was so campy, but had pretentions of being a serious movie.

[GNicholls]

Did anyone catch Jim Carrey's parody of Black Swan on SNL? It was a pretty good riff on the movie.

I saw it and it was pretty funny.

I also heard the opinion expressed that this movie is perfect for a cult following & midnight showings in which people come in costumes and speak the lines - I can see that. When I thought about my dislike of the movie I realized that I would have enjoyed it more if I thought of it more as real camp.

My prediction is that Portman will win an Oscar because of all the publicity around her training and weight loss!

[GNicholls]

I'm starting to share your opinion. The scene where (at least in her mind) Vincent Cassel tells Portman that to dance Odile she needs to have you know what: he's the ultimate bad Method Acting director!