translating PAL into American format

[Paul Parish]

A friend is desperate. She just got a great DVD via Amazon, but the seller failed to mention it was in PAL.

Anybody know any quick solutions? Will copy places convert copyrighted DVDs chapters intact? (This is of course in Berkeley, but we have the national chains)

I remember something about "Nero" allowing you to change the format from PAL to NTSC, but can't remember what that was or how it worked....

Thanks.

[SandyMcKean]

I am not an expert, but I have some experience with DVDs. There may be holes in what I'm saying, but maybe what I do know will be helpful.

Copying a commericial DVD can be done, but the legality of doing it is questionable (some say it is OK if you are making a backup for your own use; OTOH, *no* service would do it for you). Even making a backup copy is a bit complex requiring bootleg decryption software, and probably compression (shrink) software too. Even then a PAL to NTSC might not be do-able.

Essentially whatever you do, you will be "recoding" (also called "transcoding") the video/audio data into a new format. There are programs that can do this for non-protected files (or for files where the protection has been removed assuming that can be done legally).

One no-cost software program that can do such recoding of unprotected files is:

SUPER by eRightSoft

P.S. No matter what the circumstances, this is technically complex and not something the un-initiated is likely to feel comfortable doing.

[Helene]

She should be able to watch it on a PC in the meantime, if she has one.

[Katalina]

There are downloadable programs that help to make DVDs region free and therefore viewable on PCs without using up your region counter. Most programs offer a fully functional trial version with an evaluation period of at least ten days. The program which I know that doesn't come with any spyware or adware is from Slysoft. If your friend wishes to view the DVD and also make a region-free copy for her personal use, she can check out the web site and download the appropriate programs from there.

[Paul Parish]

THank you ALL--I've passed this info on to her, and will save it for myself.

[innopac]

There are downloadable programs that help to make DVDs region free and therefore viewable on PCs without using up your region counter. Most programs offer a fully functional trial version with an evaluation period of at least ten days. The program which I know that doesn't come with any spyware or adware is from Slysoft. If your friend wishes to view the DVD and also make a region-free copy for her personal use, she can check out the web site and download the appropriate programs from there.

I didn't think it was possible to convert a pal dvd to a dvd that was viewable on a television that was ntsc with anydvd from slysoft. Katalina, do you know how to do that with anydvd?

[Andrew73]

A friend is desperate. She just got a great DVD via Amazon, but the seller failed to mention it was in PAL.

There's two separate issues here, she may have one or the other or both!

DVDs are regional; this is a big problem, but many DVD players can easily be converted to 'multiregion' ('region 0), with simple resetting using the remote. It's cheaper for the manufacturers to make one standard machine and put regional settings, than make different machines for each region. Google the make and model and the word 'multiregion', and you'll soon find out!

As has been said, if this fails, then a computer's DVD player will usually suffice - and many portable DVD players are also multiregion form the start.

I mostly play mine on a portable, and wire that to the TV for a bigger, better picture.

TVs have different standards - PAL, NTSC, etc. - many TVs, especially those made in Asia, will be dual standard. It's cheaper for the manufacturers to make one standard machine than make different machines for each region (!). In Europe, almost all PAL TVs will play NTSC without blinking - but I think I read somewhere that US-made TVs do not usually convert

So it may be a simple matter of trying a different TV. But if it IS a TV standard problem, then the best you'll be able to get, usually, is a pretty poor conversion; it would be better (and almost certainly cheaper) to abandon the attempt and look for a 'correct' copy.

Your friend was unlucky with Amazon - I'm in the UK, and often buy US DVDs; when I try through Amazon, I get at least three warnings that I may be buying incompatible material - and many US sellers just won't sell to Europe, because they're sick of us Europeans ignoring the warnings and demanding money back!

If it was an "Amazon Marketplace Seller", she should be able to get her money back, as the seller should have warned her. If it was a direct Amazon sale, she'll get a refund.

[chrisk217]

A friend is desperate. She just got a great DVD via Amazon, but the seller failed to mention it was in PAL.

Anybody know any quick solutions? Will copy places convert copyrighted DVDs chapters intact? (This is of course in Berkeley, but we have the national chains)

I remember something about "Nero" allowing you to change the format from PAL to NTSC, but can't remember what that was or how it worked....

Thanks.

Assuming that you've tried different playing equipment, haven't succeded and don't want to buy new equipment, here are some ideas:

a/ the region thing

If the dvd is regioned use AnyDVD as Katalina says. Rip and burn a regionless copy. There are other similar applications like DVD Region. They are not always successful, depending on dvd player model, player firmware, operating system etc you might not be able to bypass the region lock, but they generally work.

If none of the aforementioned applications work: you can change the region of your computer's dvd player temporarily to the region of the dvd, rip a regionless copy on your hard drive with something like AnyDVD, DVDFab or similar ripping application, and then change the region of your computer's dvd player back to the original value. Try to avoid this if possible. The region of an RPC-2 firmware drive can be reset a total of 5 times, then it locks to the last value. So try to avoid. Perhaps it would be easier/better to find someone with a dvd player set in the region of the dvd, who, with a ripping application, will rip you a regionless copy (a student from Europe with a laptop, perhaps?). A shop might be able to do this too, but they might have legal objections (?)

b/ the PAL/NTSC transcoding thing

Three words: DON'T DO IT! (if we're talking about dance)

With out going into much detail to transcode from PAL to NTSC you have to go from having 25 frames per second to 29.97 frames per second. This is usually done by inserting 5 duplicate frames per second into the series of already existing frames.

The already existing frames correspond well to the music, each of them was sampled at the exact appropriate point in music.

But when you insert the duplicate frames you are moving the already existing, well timed frames to places in the music where they don't exactly belong, in order to fit in the duplicate frames. It's the teensiest difference but it will surprise you to know that it can be perceived. You can always tell the transcoded dance vids, there's something a bit off in their flow. No big deal when you do this to a movie with people sitting around talking, but kind of a big deal when you do it to dance, where musicality and phrasing matter.

Also apart from the musicality issue, be prepared for image stuttering, artifacts and the like. Those problems are more obvious in case of fast or very slow movement. Professionals (production companies) do this more subtly so the result is good, but so far all the video tools I've come across do this the crude way, by duplicating a frame every 5 and moving the rest around to fit in the duplicate.

If my passionate plea against transcoding dance did not convince you, there are many applications you can use to do this vile thing. NeroVision, TmpgEnc are two. Most applications retain chapters, a few retain subtitles but i don't know any that retains menus. If you want menus you'll have to transcode all titles on the dvd separately and then put them together with an authoring application (where you'll create your own menus etc)

All this is involved and the result dubious. By far the best and easiest thing would be to rip and burn a regionless copy (if needed) and then sit at her computer and watch.

[rg]

i concur on the portable option. i bought a little protable by Impecca (which i never heard of before) and it works smoothly playing my NTSC and PAL discs.

it has proved a very good investment.

[Katalina]

I didn't think it was possible to convert a pal dvd to a dvd that was viewable on a television that was ntsc with anydvd from slysoft. Katalina, do you know how to do that with anydvd?

innopac, from what I gather in the Slysoft forum, I don't think you can convert a PAL DVD to a DVD that would be viewable on a TV that is NTSC. All I suggested earlier was to view the DVD on a PC.

If you live in North America, an Oppo Universal DVD player may display a PAL video on an NTSC TV. Personally, I haven't purchased anything from Oppo - so I can't comment on the quality. For your information, the Oppo web site is: http://www.oppodigital.com/

[innopac]

b/ the PAL/NTSC transcoding thing

Three words: DON'T DO IT! (if we're talking about dance)

innopac, from what I gather in the Slysoft forum, I don't think you can convert a PAL DVD to a DVD that would be viewable on a TV that is NTSC. All I suggested earlier was to view the DVD on a PC.

Thank you both. Your posts have been very helpful. I have paid to have a couple of pal videos (not ballet) converted but have been on the lookout for software to convert pal to ntsc (ballet). I will now stop looking and drop the "project".

[toeprints]

I just had the Rudolf Nureyev Alla Scala DVD translated from European Region 2 to the U. S. Region 1 at a local recording studio outside of Boston (they handle commercials, tv promos, etc.). They cannot translate menus, but is there are subtitles, they will translate with the English subtitle. Very good results, and very reasonably priced.

[Katalina]

innopac, although you may have chosen to drop your little project, I thought it might be quite interesting to borrow your idea and carry out a little experiment of my own:

Just for the fun of experimenting, I checked out ConvertXtoDVD, a program that has the function to convert PAL to NTSC or NTSC to PAL (depends on what you choose when you first install the program on your PC).

To test out the program, I chose one PAL disc and one NTSC disc. To convert from PAL to NTSC, I tried the SPBT's Giselle (Irina Kolesnikova). For NTSC to PAL, I used the Mariinsky's Nutcracker (Irina Golub).

Since ConvertXtoDVD only handles the conversion process, I made backup copies of the DVDs on my hard drive before using the program to convert. In my experiments, I used Slysoft's AnyDVD + CloneDVD but I'm sure other similar programs will also do a good job.

As I was performing a test, I downloaded the trial version of the program. The installation was straight-forward. Overall, I didn't find the program difficult to use.

Result: Since it's a trial version, the output contains a watermark in the middle of the screen. I saved the converted files on my hard drive and double checked on the qualities first before burning the files onto a DVD-R. For both the NTSC and PAL outputs, the audio and video are in sync. The qualities are acceptable (but please don't expect the output to be of the same qualities as the originals).

I'm happy that both of my experiments had run smoothly - since I wanted to check out the SPBT's Giselle on my old NTSC TV, I ended up burning the converted NTSC files onto a DVD-R, and yes, I've no problem playing the DVD-R on my old TV + DVD player.

BTW, I discovered a link to get a 40% off coupon for ConvertXtoDVD - if anyone is considering buying the program, go to YouTube,

, click on (more info) which is next to the date of when the video had been added in the right hand column, and there, you'll find a link to get a special 40% off coupon.

[innopac]

Katalina,

When you say the quality is not quite the same - did you notice a difference in the clarity of the image... in the sound... or both? Would you prefer watching the Pal version on your computer or the converted to NTSC version on your television?

For both the NTSC and PAL outputs, the audio and video are in sync. The qualities are acceptable (but please don't expect the output to be of the same qualities as the originals).

[Katalina]

For my two experiments, both the audio and video qualities are slightly compromised in the converted outputs but overall, the qualities are not bad, in my opinion.

Both converted outputs give me non-fuzzy images. The movements and facial expressions of the dancers are still captured clearly and fluidly - it's just when you compare the originals and the converted copies side-by-side, you'd notice the slight difference. The converted copies do not have the same degree of brightness and sharpness as the originals.

For the audio quality, I don't find too much of a discrepancy with the SPBT's Giselle. But for the Mariinsky's Nutcracker, because the original is from Decca, I can really tell a difference - So, if you're looking for a home theatre experience, you'll not be happy with the result.

Would you prefer watching the Pal version on your computer or the converted to NTSC version on your television?

I guess this depends on factors other than the qualities of the converted outputs. Given the purpose here is not to disrespect copyright protection, the most direct way to watch a PAL DVD is, of course, with my own computer. But for my personal preference, I'd rather watch ballet performances on TV than in front of my computer. That's because I often find myself not as judgmental and analytical when I'm away from my computer.

I don't know if this may help but in my opinion, the image of the converted NTSC output of my experiment is of a far better quality than the DVD video of the old RB's La Fille Mal Gardee (Collier, Coleman). I don't know why you're on the lookout for a method to convert your PAL DVD to an NTSC version, but if you can tolerate watching the DVD of La Fille Mal Gardee (Collier, Coleman), there is a high chance that you'd find the quality of the converted version acceptable.

[innopac]

I really appreciate your detailed response. Thanks.

[SandyMcKean]

One additional thought. All the suggestions in this thread do not address one issue: DVD copy protection.

Most DVDs issued in the last 5 years (approx) do some form of encryption. It is not possible to make region free copies, or any other form of DVD ripping for that matter, with an encrypted DVD. To copy a encrypted DVD to your hard drive or to a blank DVD (regardless of region) would require that you decrypt the DVD first. This can be done, but it is illegal, and requires bootleg decryption software.

[Jemil Akman]

Ok, I can help you (hypothetically, since we are not supposed to do this).. If you want to transfer it from Pal to NTSC, some copy houses will do it for you (my company transfers Pal to NTSC all the time). Now if you want to do it yourself, go out and spend about $100 dollars on a dvd player that plays both (many of them do these days). So when you play it in the PAL mode, it will look fine on the screen. However, make note. This is an analog picture. Hook your output via the rca cables to another recording device that is NTSC and record it as an input. The quality will drop a smidge but in all PAL to NTSC tranfers, there is a loss... there is no going around it. You will now have a playable NTSC version. Good luck and feel free to contact my Film Company direct if you have questions. I am at gemstarfilms@earthlink.net in Hollywood. Good Luck!

A friend is desperate. She just got a great DVD via Amazon, but the seller failed to mention it was in PAL.

Anybody know any quick solutions? Will copy places convert copyrighted DVDs chapters intact? (This is of course in Berkeley, but we have the national chains)

I remember something about "Nero" allowing you to change the format from PAL to NTSC, but can't remember what that was or how it worked....

Thanks.

[SandyMcKean]

Jemil Akman makes some useful suggestions but s/he skips over some issues.

First, copy houses may do PAL to NTSC copies all the time, but I find it hard to believe (but maybe I'd be surprised ) that a video industry business would do this for anyone except a copyright holder. If you own the rights to the material on the DVD, then sure a copy could be made including one that converts PAL to NTSC, but in this case the question is what to do with a DVD purchased from Amazon -- the questioner surely does not hold a copyright.

Second, the statement:

"Hook your output via the rca cables to another recording device that is NTSC and record it as an input."

contains a lot of gotchas. The only way to maintain DVD like resolution (even with the degradation mentioned) is to have some sort of DVD recorder (relatively expensive and unlikely to be found in most households), or to have a high end video card (and associated software) on your computer that would allow the burning of a DVD from RCA inputs (few computers have such a video card). Another way would be if you have a TIVO type PVR. One could then record the output of the PAL DVD player to the hard disk on the TIVO with RCA inputs, but with most TIVO type devices that would result in a low resolution copy (standard broadcast TV format as well as compressed) which is far worse than DVD resolution. Even then you'd have to have a special model PVR or special software that would allow one to burn a DVD when the data is on the PVR's hard disk.

So one could do this all right, but to maintain anything like good resolution, most folks would have to invest several hundred dollars in new equipment, or talk some business into doing an illegal copy.