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Romeo & Juliet


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I agree dirac. That 'transition' into a woman is very important in the ballet, without it R+J wouldn't be the same passionate story. I'm not sure if putting young people in it is a good idea, but surprises and unexpected nuances do occur that could change everything!

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Of course there is the question, how old was the real Juliet? I'm in no way a scholar on this subject. But, while the character in the play is not a specific historical person, it seems evident that she is, at least in part, a composite of real women. I tend to think the primary historical person was Princess Gavia, the blond-haired daughter of Clodomir, the Merovingien (Frankish) King of Orleans from 511-524 ( his kingdom now would roughly correspond to Burgundy). He was one of the sons of the great King of France, Clovis I.

No doubt there have been many historical and/or literary instances where lovers were forbid by parents or other authority figures from being together. Bronzino's portrait of Lodovico Capponi (1555), hanging in the Frick, is based on an historical incident where this young man fell in love with a girl whom Duke Cosimo Medici intended for one of his own cousins. But the point is what source material Shakespeare used in creating Romeo and Juliet, and all references I know of allude primarily to Arthur Brooke's poem of 1562, which is turn is based on Italian source material from 1554 by one Matteo Bandello. I myself have not seen confirmation that the Gavia story has any direct or indirect bearing on Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet.

http://www.shakespeare-online.com/sources/romeosources.html

http://collections.frick.org/Obj782$25010

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Over on BT4D, there has been conversation about the fairness (or lack thereof) of casting students ahead of established company dancers. The argument is, essentially, that it is an affront to dancers who have worked hard to land a paying job to have a student hopscotch over them. Any comment here on that angle, from the watcher's perspective?

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I don't know what the NYCB casting will turn out to be. I will say that the most moving Juliet that I have ever seen was Fonteyn in her 50's. Sometimes young doesn't know how to play young. You are asking a young person to portray the feeling of finding the love of her life. Believe it or not this doesn't always happen at 16. I'm not talking about horniness (is that a word?)

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... But the point is what source material Shakespeare used in creating Romeo and Juliet...

http://www.shakespeare-online.com/sources/romeosources.html

Thank you for the link to primary sources for Shakespeare's play. Of course, the Gavia story would not be a primary source for him, as it precedes even the 15th C. (possible) source Masuccio Salernitano by 950 years. But her story has somehow persisted in the culture for 1500 years, and yet is about specific people, especially the Princess and her parents (history seems totally fuzzy about the boy), whose ages are just about exactly as given on NYCB's webcast for Juliet and her parents.

About three decades ago I read something about the Gavia story being an ancient antecedent (among others) to Juliet's; memory of the specific research is long lost. Being a fan of the Dark Ages, and this such a sweet story for such a brutal epoch, makes me a believer! And there is that direct connection: one can drink her wine. It pleases me to have such a connection, however esoteric, to such a person.

Admittedly, a belief fortified by wine has a wobbly basis.

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Over on BT4D, there has been conversation about the fairness (or lack thereof) of casting students ahead of established company dancers. The argument is, essentially, that it is an affront to dancers who have worked hard to land a paying job to have a student hopscotch over them. Any comment here on that angle, from the watcher's perspective?

Treefrog, I guess I'd have to take such a question on a case by case basis, really. I can think of times when it might be desirable, even necessary for various reasons, to pluck someone from the school for a big role, but systematic casting of this kind, assuming that this indeed how it works out, looks very odd, to say the least. Rank shouldn’t be everything, but. As drb pointed out early in this thread

One wonders what City Ballet's ballerinas will be doing for two weeks. Even if it were traditional, there'd only be one ballerina job per show.

As the Alastair Macaulay piece in last Sunday's Times emphasized, this is a star-driven piece. Not that you have to cast established stars, but you need two dancers who can carry an evening's drama. A tallish order.

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6 years of Latin goes out of mind rather easily.

:) I think I would have retained more if my university had offered courses in conversational Latin.:dunno: As it was, I would spend the first hour of my Latin finals writing out grammar charts from memory, and the next two hours actually writing the exam using my handy-dandy reference. Not much retention there.

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:) I think I would have retained more if my university had offered courses in conversational Latin.:) As it was, I would spend the first hour of my Latin finals writing out grammar charts from memory, and the next two hours actually writing the exam using my handy-dandy reference. Not much retention there.

:dunno: (more)

All I could stand was 2 years of Latin in High School . I thought the first year was pretty easy but in the second we read and translated from Caesar's Gallic Wars. Horror. The final was a chapter to translate. I picked up the exam and looked at the selection and thought "I don't know a single word"

The grammar in Latin drove me nuts

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Just a friendly reminder that we are, indeed, wandering afield from our topic. By all means share your Latinate experiences, but let's stick to our muttons as well.

If you’re having trouble thinking of R&J related comments, just remember that

Rem tene, verba sequentur. :)

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Over on BT4D, there has been conversation about the fairness (or lack thereof) of casting students ahead of established company dancers. The argument is, essentially, that it is an affront to dancers who have worked hard to land a paying job to have a student hopscotch over them. ...

From an audience point of view, what matters is having dancers who can do what the choreographer wants, who turn the choreography into beauty, who tell the whole story with their whole hearts, and who we believe. Merit, not seniority. Art, not business. Hard work is a necessary, but not sufficient condition for the making of a ballerina. Of course we have our established favorites. I'd wished for a Bouder Juliet. That, I would have loved even with my eyes closed. Or a Hyltin, or a Morgan...

One wonders what City Ballet's ballerinas will be doing for two weeks. Even if it were traditional, there'd only be one ballerina job per show.

As the Alastair Macaulay piece in last Sunday's Times emphasized, this is a star-driven piece. Not that you have to cast established stars, but you need two dancers who can carry an evening's drama. A tallish order.

In the past few years, the only Romeo and Juliet in town has only cast one under-30 dancer as Juliet. Diana Vishneva, just two days prior to her 30th birthday. Finally this season ABT is giving youth a chance, with baby-ballerina Gillian Murphy. I admit nearly all my favorite Juliets were over 30 when I enjoyed them most.

NYCB dare not produce a copy-cat version of a classic, must not become just another big ballet lump. NYCB has the opposite tradition. Farrell would have had to wait till her ABT retirement Gala to get a leading role... It is good that Peter Martins is willing to cast young. I wish he'd done it in the first week of the recent Sleeping Beautys. So, let's get ready to have a look at our company's future.

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So, let's get ready to have a look at our company's future.
Didn't Balanchine say "We only have NOW"? :dry:

For the moment, I'm willing to grant Martins the benefit of the doubt. Some kids have star power from the get go -- Katherine Healy and Deirdre Carberry were eye-catchers in children's corps and each had early successes carrying full lengths. Katherine was perhaps the last Juliet coached by Ashton for his R&J at age 16 with (then) London Festival Ballet, and I believe Deirdre did her knock 'em dead Kitri at 20. Still, experience in both life and art is always an asset.

There was a discussion here some years ago about companies using apprentices, trainees and students to beef up the corps and avoid having to hire (and pay scale to) professionals. This does not seem to be an effort to economize on payroll, but I hope the youngsters who are working so hard are properly compensated.

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I see nothing wrong with an AD choosing a young dancer to perfom a lead role without initial added compensation, paticularly in the role of Juliet. Traditionally the role requires a lot of partnering with much of the responsibility weighted on Romeo. It will be is a valuable performance opportunity for any young professional student to have this exposure. A principal dancer is not made by any one ballet. Not all ballet principal roles are equal in their degree of technical difficulty Her performance may lead to a subsequent a contract offer depending on how the audience receives the performance. In the mean time she will have the rare opportunity to learn first hand from both the AD and the other more experienced dancers on stage with her. This experience will be priceless.

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The NYCB is offering FREE tickets to a full dress rehearsal of R&J on Sunday 29 April... Line up for free TIX at 900AM at the NY State Theatre Box Office. Performance the same Sunday evening (29 April).

The website says the free tickets will be handed out on April 22 for the dress rehearsal on the 29th.

You might want to confirm this with the box office too...

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I see nothing wrong with an AD choosing a young dancer to perfom a lead role without initial added compensation, paticularly in the role of Juliet. Traditionally the role requires a lot of partnering with much of the responsibility weighted on Romeo. It will be is a valuable performance opportunity for any young professional student to have this exposure. A principal dancer is not made by any one ballet. Not all ballet principal roles are equal in their degree of technical difficulty Her performance may lead to a subsequent a contract offer depending on how the audience receives the performance. In the mean time she will have the rare opportunity to learn first hand from both the AD and the other more experienced dancers on stage with her. This experience will be priceless.

This may be all very valid from the point of view of the performer. The opportunity to gain exposure and experience is very valuable for a young dancer.

From the point of view of this ticket buyer, I don't want to see a student or apprentice in a lead role. I'm paying full price if I go to a performance, I want to see professionals. If I want to see an apprentice I think the appropriate venue is a studio performance.

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I tend to agree with richard53dog. When one of the marketing points of a production is that the kids are going to be prominently featured, it immediately lowers the audience's expectations of professionalism and content of the production, which in Martins' R&J may be intentional. Also, using a bunch of kids has a way of deflecting criticism. It might be an all around lousy production, but who is going to bash a bunch of kids? Hey, we might be surprised and it might turn out to be wonderful. Odder things have happened.

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The company is still paying the full yearly salaries for all its dancers, so they won't save any money by having Juliet played by an advanced student. Indeed, if they are made apprentices for this job they will be paid according to the union contract, in which case it would actually cost the company more. So I've got to conclude that this is an artistic decision of the choreographer. If I'm going to pay for a ballet, I'd wish to see it presented with as good a cast as the choreographer can offer. Also, isn't it true that some casts will have Juliets from the regular company? If so, one could vote at the ticket booth.

Oh, it will save wear-and-tear on the part of the regular dancers, perhaps cutting down the company's horrendous injury rate.

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When one of the marketing points of a production is that the kids are going to be prominently featured, it immediately lowers the audience's expectations of professionalism and content of the production, which in Martins' R&J may be intentional. Also, using a bunch of kids has a way of deflecting criticism. It might be an all around lousy production, but who is going to bash a bunch of kids?

Professional critics are going to differentiate between the production and the current abilities of the cast, and if the semi-professional leads fall short, we'll all know who ticket holders have to blame.

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Professional critics are going to differentiate between the production and the current abilities of the cast, and if the semi-professional leads fall short, we'll all know who ticket holders have to blame.

Exactly. A critic doesn't need to bash a kid in order to say that Mr. Martins made a faulty casting decision. And we know who will be reviewing it from the Times! My guess is that when we see the ballet the judgment will most likely rest on something else, the sets for instance, or choreography.

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sz you are correct that the NYCB's site notes the free TIX for 4.29 are being distributed on 4.22... I saw the mention in the NY Times which may have (probably) made a mistake.

I assumed this was like the "rush" TIX approach of the MET where you get the $100 seats for $20 if you wait on line starting at 4pm on the day of the performance.

The NYCB free TIX thing must be something different. Great idea though.

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