Torvill and Dean

[leonid17]

Torvill and Dean were heroine and hero in the UK after their Olympic success.

Here is an archive article about them which I hope will interest some of you:

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/osm/story/0,,1981915,00.html

[dirac]

Thank you, leonid. The names of Torvill and Dean have come up in the past - they have many fans on this board! (My own favorite British skater was Robin Cousins.)

[Buddy]

Hi leonid,

I haven't read the article yet. but I will. What I did do was take out my Jayne Torvill and Christopher Dean video at 2 AM that I haven't seen in several years. It was a real pleasure to watch it again.

I seem to be a perpetual beginner figure skater, but I did take some lessons once from a former Olympic level Soviet pairs skating coach. He told me that he still can't figure out how Christopher Dean was able to do some of the things that he did. Also there is the story about how the Parliament in London stopped their session so that everyone could go see Torvill and Dean do their Olympic Gold Medal performance. They were amazing !

[carbro]

At the [1994] European Championships, the judges were underwhelmed and Dean knew they would need a complete change of routine to stay in contention. They had three weeks. 'It was quite stressful, wasn't it?' jokes Torvill. Advice poured in ('too much,' says Torvill) and they arrived at Lillehammer underprepared.

As far as I'm concerned, they had nothing to apologize for. It was a charming, delightful program, beautifully presented and, as with all of their programs, acutely musical.

My own favorite British skater was Robin Cousins.

Not to take anything away from Cousins, but I'm a Curry gal, myself.

[sandik]

Also there is the story about how the Parliament in London stopped their session so that everyone could go see Torvill and Dean do their Olympic Gold Medal performance. They were amazing !

When Fanny Elssler was touring here in the US, congress recessed so they could go to a performance.

[Helene]

I'm very glad that the DVD Torvill and Dean: Golden Moments has been released in the UK (PAL/Region 2). We can hope that there will be a NA release in NTSC, or at least PAL worldwide, so that we can view it on our computers in the US and Canada.

Although "Bolero" is Torvill and Dean's most famous program, and the one that earned straight 6.0's for the second mark, my favorite Ice Dance program of all time is their Paso Doble Original Set Pattern, which they also performed in 1984.

Full disclosure: I don't think professionals should have been reinstated in 1994. I think this was unfair to amateurs, who invested time and money in training based on the assumption that only amateurs would be eligible to compete. (If the ISU wanted to let pros back in, I think they should have agreed for the next Olympic cycle, in 1998.)

Among the singles skaters, only Brian Boitano had the technical skills to compete for the podium; Petrenko was not known for his training in his amateur days, and he was not in the same shape in 1994 that he was in 1992. The ladies' field had surpassed Witt technically. It was ironic, or perhaps poetic justice, that Boitano, who had driven the reinstatement movement, failed in the SP and took himself out of contention. Among pairs, while Brasseur/Eisler had their trademark lifts and twists, including a spectacular lateral twist, there were no amateurs who could compete with the combination of technique and oneness of the returning pros, Gordeeva/Grinkov and Mishketienok/Dmitriev. The pros were not a factor in singles, and in Pairs, the hardest decision the judges had to make was whether the quality of G/G's skating and their extra lift and death spiral (within the rules) compensated for the two flaws in their program, compared to M/D's.

It was a very different story in Ice Dance. The Soviet Union/CIS/Russia had dominated Ice Dance from 1970-1984, and even during Regoczy/Sallas' win in 1980 and Torvill and Dean's four-year reign from 1981-4, they won every silver medal, and three of five bronzes. After Torvill and Dean, they resumed domination until 1994, with the exception of the Duschenays's world title in 1991, in no year from 1985-93 did they win less than two medals, and in 1992-3 they swept the podium.

Torvill and Dean pushed the boundaries, but the Soviet teams pushed them further into what I'd describe as "Ice Theater." It wasn't the first time that Soviet teams changed the face of the sport: in a book published for the 2004 Dortmund Worlds, Gorshkov was quoted as saying that because they could not compete with the British teams, which had dominated for 13 of 17 years from 1952-1969, technically, they had to change the paradigm, which they did with emotionally open and dramatic free dances.

In 1994, into the mix skated Torvill and Dean, and unlike in singles and pairs, they faced amateur competitors who were extremely capable: Usova/Zhulin, long held back behind Klimova/Ponomorenko, and the up-and-coming Gritchuk/Platov, who chose an age-appropriate, energy-filled, technically packed rock-and-roll program in Lillehammer. They decided to skate at Europeans; spooked by the results there and the judges' feedback, they put together a new program in three weeks, and were not prepared for the Olympic competition.

I think that there were two factors that determined their placement: because the competition was so strong, and they neither took themselves out of the competition early nor dominated every aspect of skating, the judges' preferences were key. And then there was the "Cassie" factor. In A Chorus Line, when Cassie is auditioning in a group dance, the director has to repeatedly call out for her not to dance so prominently. In Cassie's case, it was a matter of sticking out of the line. In Torvill and Dean's case, I think their emphatically professional presentation took them out of the running with the judges, while endearing them to their fans. And their bronze is still heavily debated on among figure skating fans over a decade later.

My second favorite Torvill and Dean performance is in Yo-Yo Ma's series "Inspired by Bach" (DVD Volume 3) in which they performed Dean's choreography to Bach's Suite for Solo Cello #6 in a section called "Six Gestures." This is available through Sony, along with the great Kabuki actor Tamasaburo Bando performing to Suite #5.

[sidwich]

My favorite Torvill and Dean program is "Encounter" from the mid to late 80s, followed by the 1994 OSP (Rhumba) and the 1984 OSP (Paso). Dean has an outstanding imagination for what can be accomplished on ice.

Torvill and Dean pushed the boundaries, but the Soviet teams pushed them further into what I'd describe as "Ice Theater." It wasn't the first time that Soviet teams changed the face of the sport: in a book published for the 2004 Dortmund Worlds, Gorshkov was quoted as saying that because they could not compete with the British teams, which had dominated for 13 of 17 years from 1952-1969, technically, they had to change the paradigm, which they did with emotionally open and dramatic free dances.

I think what the Soviet teams were able to accomplish was to push the boundaries of the paradigm that Torvill and Dean changed. Up until Torvill and Dean, ice dance generally resembled ballroom dance on ice, with LPs which were often comprised of completely unrelated music cut together to show a slew of different dance styles (for example, a cha-cha, a quickstep, and a samba). By 1982, Torvill and Dean were using music derived from a single source ("Mack and Mabel") and then in 1983, they pushed it a little further with "Barnum," and it culminated in "Bolero" which obviously doesn't resemble Ballroom dance at all and is completely theatrical.

In Torvill and Dean's case, I think their emphatically professional presentation took them out of the running with the judges, while endearing them to their fans. And their bronze is still heavily debated on among figure skating fans over a decade later.

I think all three of the teams in the running were spooked by the results at Europeans (the Soviets that they didn't win, and T&D that they didn't win the LP), and as I understand it, all of them made changes to their programs. I've seen the T&D program from Europeans and it's not *as* different as people have made it sound, although there are quite a few changes. I think what did hurt them with the judges is that there are obviously major portions of the program which were lifted from "Mack and Mabel" and "Barnum."

I think they were probably correct in assessing that they would not win at the Olympics unless they could win the LP, though. Actually, as I recall, one of the major factors in the result at Lillehammer was Grishuk and Platov's improvement in the compulsories over Europeans (due to the old 6.0 system with factored placements), which had nothing to do with T&D's performance in the LP.

[sandik]

My second favorite Torvill and Dean performance is in Yo-Yo Ma's series "Inspired by Bach" (DVD Volume 3) in which they performed Dean's choreography to Bach's Suite for Solo Cello #6 in a section called "Six Gestures." This is available through Sony, along with the great Kabuki actor Tamasaburo Bando performing to Suite #5.

Tangentially, there is a lovely piece by Mark Morris in the same series "Falling Upstairs."

[Helene]

I think what the Soviet teams were able to accomplish was to push the boundaries of the paradigm that Torvill and Dean changed. Up until Torvill and Dean, ice dance generally resembled ballroom dance on ice, with LPs which were often comprised of completely unrelated music cut together to show a slew of different dance styles (for example, a cha-cha, a quickstep, and a samba). By 1982, Torvill and Dean were using music derived from a single source ("Mack and Mabel") and then in 1983, they pushed it a little further with "Barnum," and it culminated in "Bolero" which obviously doesn't resemble Ballroom dance at all and is completely theatrical.

In my opinion Torvill and Dean used their bodies to express theater, as well as timing and rhythm. I think of what followed as the "hair pulling" form of theatricality: lots of exaggerated facial movement, sturm and drang, and the occasional bombastic score that wasn't remotely dance-like. Even though Klimova/Ponomorenko are among my all-time favorites, I preferred them pre-Tarasova, when they were more technical, but considered cold. My second all-time favorite Ice Dance program is the encore K/P did after one Worlds or Euros: they came out with a prop of a long rod, and proceeded to do a barre on ice, then they lost the barre and did center, until they finally did a dance. I found it enchanting.

As the rules changed, and couples could separate for more than a few seconds and were allowed to perform more and more intricate lifts and spins, there were more crossovers and open holds, and less edge work. What mesmerized me about "Bolero" was the constantly changing and weaving holds, and the integrated use of upper and lower body in their skating.

I think they were probably correct in assessing that they would not win at the Olympics unless they could win the LP, though. Actually, as I recall, one of the major factors in the result at Lillehammer was Grishuk and Platov's improvement in the compulsories over Europeans (due to the old 6.0 system with factored placements), which had nothing to do with T&D's performance in the LP.

After Europeans, and Grishuk/Platov were considered true contenders for the gold instead of newbies aiming for any podium finish, their compulsories were suddenly much better. It's a phenomenon in every judging system, that presentation scores in particular, rise with reputation and/or increase in technical content. An example is Kimmie Meissner: she didn't land her 3/3's at the Olympics, but her skating skills (edging, posture, % of one-footed skating) and interpretation magically improved in Calgary, where she landed those jumps. The question is always whether a skater or team has been underscored in the past or overscored in the present or both.

[sandik]

As the rules changed, and couples could separate for more than a few seconds and were allowed to perform more and more intricate lifts and spins, there were more crossovers and open holds, and less edge work. What mesmerized me about "Bolero" was the constantly changing and weaving holds, and the integrated use of upper and lower body in their skating.

I don't follow skating very closely, either figure or ice dancing, but have been interested in watching the changes that have developed since the school figures were eliminated from figure skating competitions. It seems, to my not very experienced eye, that there is an increased emphasis on big, flashy movements but no concomitant development of small, detailed footwork.

[Helene]

I don't follow skating very closely, either figure or ice dancing, but have been interested in watching the changes that have developed since the school figures were eliminated from figure skating competitions. It seems, to my not very experienced eye, that there is an increased emphasis on big, flashy movements but no concomitant development of small, detailed footwork.

School figures applied only to singles skaters. Over a century they evolved from the entire competition, to the majority of the competition, to a majority but gradually decreasing percentage, to less than half, to less than that with the introduction of the Short Program, to being eliminated. The elimination of the school figures coincided with the triples era, which gathered steam in the 80's until figures were eliminated in 1990; Elvis Stojko landed the first quad combination the following year at Worlds. Triples and quads, especially the most difficult ones, require long preparations and lots of crossovers to generate speed. Even though there is a requirement for steps leading into the solo triple (in seniors), that is one jump in a short program (3 jumping passes) compared to a long program with 8 jumping passes for men and 7 for women. Compared to the longer combinations of smaller jumps that Dorothy Hamill did in the 1976 Olympics, or the three and four jump combinations that Gordeeva/Grinkov did before triples became mandatory, the triples preceeded by long cross-over passes are rather empty, in my opinion. Also, over the same period, the "recommended" well-balanced program has become mandatory; the only thing skaters can do is lose points by leaving out elements. But they can't, for example, do a fifth lift and leave out a pairs spin or death spiral, and there is a maximum number of difficult lifts that they can do within the allowed number.

Under the 6.0 scoring system, each judge could determine his/her own hierarchy of values, but the general patterns were that the big jumps trumped the smaller ones with difficult preparations, difficult preparations weren't rewarded, and speed was prized over the transitional blade work. Complaints about her lack of speed were what made Michelle Kwan give up the intricate programs she skated in the mid-late 90's for the relatively empty programs from 2001 or so on; the judges didn't consider it a trade-off, but a defect. Spins, spirals, and footwork were throw-away elements in singles, often done in a very perfunctory manner.

Code of Points scoring has started to turn this around, by giving higher levels for more intricate spins and difficult footwork, higher Grades of Execution for difficult entrances into jumps, and one of the five Component Scores dedicated to transitions. If anything, this has caused a lot of complaints to say that skaters are trying to perform difficulty over their heads and doing ugly spins and footwork to rack up points, because the system is not rewarding excellently executed simpler moves properly. There have been many more transitions in the last couple of years, after a 15-20-year lull.

I think you'd be surprised if you compared this years Worlds and Europeans to those in the mid-to-late 90's.

A similar thing is happening in dance. One of the things that I love about a number of younger couples -- Domnina/Shabalin, Davis/White, Matthews/Zavozin, Platanova/Maximishin -- is how closely together they skate. They still do the fancy lifts, and their holds aren't as intricate as Torvill's and Dean's, but they skate hip-to-hip, something I miss from the couples of the last 15 years.