Sweeney Todd: a new film

[bart]

As a follow up to suggestions that Meryl Streep might be the perfect casting choice for Mrs. Lovett, here's The New Yorker's review of Streep in the title role of Mother Courage. It's a rave. And she SINGS !

http://www.newyorker.com/critics/theatre/a...904crth_theatre

[dirac]

Streep's fine singing voice is well known -- there was even talk of casting her in the movie version of Evita back in the day.

[papeetepatrick]

Streep's fine singing voice is well known -- there was even talk of casting her in the movie version of Evita back in the day.

I wish there had been more than talk, not that I care about that property much more than the rest of Lloyd Webber. What we got is the well-known singing voice that is not fine.

[papeetepatrick]

They should cast Patti Lupone. Sondheim was there for the closing last night, with a huge ovation, so she has to have been terrific as she always is anyway. She should have been in both 'Evita'--the terrible movie, and 'Sunset Boulevard', the Glenn Close thing, from which she got the boot. Can sing better than either of them (well, one of them can't really sing at all) and better than Meryl Streep too. I guess they think they'd be taking a HUGE chance, so maybe just cast Uma Thurman or Jennifer Anniston or give Britney Spears a break. If they don't care about anything but fears that it won't pay, they might consider the fact that it's not going to make money anyway. Maybe even Depp too big a risk, put Ricky Martin in it. Or then there's always Madonna, who would do a good surprise Oscar turn, or maybe Cher--good choices all.

[dirac]

If they don't care about anything but fears that it won't pay, they might consider the fact that it's not going to make money anyway.

ST won’t be the next Star Wars, but if it’s not too expensive, the marketing campaign is a clever one, and the picture itself is pretty good, it could earn its costs back and perhaps do better than that. Burton and Depp can do very little wrong with the critics these days and that will help too.

[dirac]

It’s decided: Helena Bonham Carter will play Mrs. Lovett, and she will do her own singing, natch. Not an obvious choice, but, like Depp, she has worked often with Burton in the past. I have no idea if Bonham Carter can sing, but we’ll find out.

I understand Depp is taking singing lessons from Vanessa Paradis to prep for the role.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6065260.stm

Both Bonham-Carter and Depp will perform their own songs in Sweeney Todd, which is due to start filming in early 2007.

[papeetepatrick]

It’s decided: Helena Bonham Carter will play Mrs. Lovett, and she will do her own singing, natch.

I love it when casting saves me money. I remember what Patsy said in 'ABFAB' about Ms. Bonham Carter, and I agree.

[dirac]

If I'm not mistaken, I think she's actually married to Burton??? Something tells me the search for the ideal Mrs. L. was not exhaustive....

[leonid17]

If I'm not mistaken, I think she's actually married to Burton??? Something tells me the search for the ideal Mrs. L. was not exhaustive....

Miss Bonham Carter and Mr Burton are partners, not married.

[Mary J]

I generally like Miss Bonham Carter but her casting as Mrs. Lovett is far from ideal, on so many levels. I can only think, in my highly skeptical way, that they cannot put too high powered an actress in that part for fear that Mr. Depp (who is very talented but not at all suited for the title role, IMHO) will be overwhelmed.

It is my understanding that Sondheim retains a fair amount of control as author of the piece, so apparently Tim Burton has bewitched him into agreeing to this cast. It is a double shame that the original Broadway cast of Cariou and Lansbury was never recorded and that this movie version, if weak, will be the one many people see/ remember.

I found the recent revival fascinating and effective because the lyrics were so much clearer and the reduced orchestration very eerie but dramatically powerful - and Sondheim has such a way with words. In that regard particularly, any comparison with A. L. Webber (one b? two b's?) doesn't hold up.

[sandik]

It’s decided: Helena Bonham Carter will play Mrs. Lovett, and she will do her own singing, natch. Not an obvious choice, but, like Depp, she has worked often with Burton in the past. I have no idea if Bonham Carter can sing, but we’ll find out.

I understand Depp is taking singing lessons from Vanessa Paradis to prep for the role.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6065260.stm

Both Bonham-Carter and Depp will perform their own songs in Sweeney Todd, which is due to start filming in early 2007.

I don't know about her singing voice, but she did an excellent job at Mrs Bucket in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, which had an odd kind of eccentric poverty which might jive with Mrs Lovett. And she's Bellatrix Lestrange in the next Harry Potter film.

I cannot remember if she sang in Corpse Bride.

[papeetepatrick]

I've found 2 photos that will convince all skeptics that Ms. Bonham Carter and her escort will make the Best Pies in London.

http://www.imdb.com/gallery/granitz/3494/T...%20Helena&seq=3

http://www.imdb.com/gallery/granitz/4417/E...arter,%20Helena

I had to open the IMDB in order to find exactly what film I couldn't remember her in. It was 'A Room with a View.' At that point she always had that 'Junior Year Abroad' blushing quality, but she has clearly grown. During my stay at IMDB, I found a hilarious bio explaining how Miss Bonham Carter, despite maintaining talent along with sexpot status, has not become a star--we find that Julie Christie also ‘turned her back on stardom’; and how Ms. Fonda ‘came close’, but allowed certain procedures during her tenure as Mrs. Turner that made stardom elude her. And then: 'Brando was a superstar who could act, but hardly a sexpot.' Huh??? Oh well, maybe the writer was distinguishing between 'sexpot' and 'sex symbol', or something like that.

Easily the funniest bit of text I've read from the expert opinionators on that site, and with 'Sweeney Todd' Miss Bonham Carter has another chance at the elusive quest. All of our best wishes go with her.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000307/bio

[richard53dog]

I've found 2 photos that will convince all skeptics that Ms. Bonham Carter and her escort will make the Best Pies in London.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000307/bio

Sorry, this skeptic remains unconvinced. The photos don't do much for me. Her film career has been one where she was always coming close to fulfilling promise but never actually getting there, at least in my view

("Room With" or otherwise)

[dirac]

I generally like Miss Bonham Carter but her casting as Mrs. Lovett is far from ideal, on so many levels. I can only think, in my highly skeptical way, that they cannot put too high powered an actress in that part for fear that Mr. Depp (who is very talented but not at all suited for the title role, IMHO) will be overwhelmed.

I'm inclined to agree. I'm sure she won't be terrible, but obviously they could have done a lot better, and with her in the cast Depp is in little danger of being upstaged. (My own estimate of the lady's talents coincides with that of richard53dog.)

[papeetepatrick]

The casting reminds me of the way 'Chicago' was cast. It's much more of a whole different ball game when the musical goes onto film(always a lot further away from the original than I'd ever realized), and the result doesn't usually work as well as one would like it to. 'The King and I' translated beautifully, but many of the greatest B'way shows have become sloppy onscreen or barely recognizable as what made them great even if they are technically fairly sound. I never saw 'A Little Night Music,' which I think is Sondheim's only show with both music and lyrics that has made it to the screen, but I've always heard it was bad. Generally, the translations are fairly good but not great. The happy exceptions often seem to be accidents, as when casting Mitzi Gaynor in 'South Pacific,' but the casting of film adaptions of B'way shows is one of the most contentious matters I've encountered among film buffs.

[dirac]

May God forgive me, I've always liked 'The Sound of Music.' I never saw it on stage but I suspect the picture was an improvement.

I remember the film version of 'A Little Night Music' as uniquely ghastly experience. It wasn't just bad - it was in another dimension of badness.

[sidwich]

I never saw 'A Little Night Music,' which I think is Sondheim's only show with both music and lyrics that has made it to the screen, but I've always heard it was bad.

"A Funny Thing Happened..." also made it to film. "A Little Night Music" is amazingly bad, but it did give us the revised "Glamorous Life."

May God forgive me, I've always liked 'The Sound of Music.' I never saw it on stage but I suspect the picture was an improvement.

I think it is an improvement. It's the only R&H that doesn't have a Hammerstein book, and it tends to come across as sticky sweet on stage. By opening up the action, Wise gives the story more of an urgency with the impending Nazi invasion. The realism of film dissipates the "magic" that many of the R&H musicals have on stage ("Carousel" for example), but it works for "Sound of Music." (I kind of miss the songs the Baroness and Max have, though).

I'd been hoping that the Meryl Streep rumors would be borne out, but they could do worse than Helena Bonham Carter for Mrs. Lovett. She can act, but I do wonder if she has the creepy humor and charisma necessary for Mrs. Lovett.

I'm at least as concerned about Tim Burton's direction as either Bonham Carter or Depp and their singing (oh, the wonder of modern recording and engineering!). Looking back at some of his earlier work, it hasn't aged well at all, and I'm hoping he doesn't fall back on pseudo-German expressionism again.

[dirac]

Good to hear from you, sidwich. I had forgotten about the Richard Lester version of "A Funny Thing...."

[papeetepatrick]

Good to hear from you, sidwich. I had forgotten about the Richard Lester version of "A Funny Thing...."

Yes, thanks, sidwich, I have never seen it and just put a hold on it at the library. I think it doesn't have as much music as most of Sondheim's, does it? Then there are films which don't leave out just 3 or 4 tunes, but all but 1 or 2, like 'Louisiana Purchase.' But 'Louisiana Purchase' is a charmer anyway.

I agree that 'The Sound of Music' is an improvement and I can certainly see why it had such broad appeal, but the piece itself is nowhere near, for me, what the great R & H shows--'Oklahoma', 'Carousel', 'South Pacific,' 'The King and I'-are musically. I was just thinking of those old Baron and Baroness songs yesterday, 'No Way To Stop It' and 'How Can Love Survive.'

'Oliver!' is one which comes to mind that probably is an improvement, esp. since Lean is following up his own b & w masterpiece. I also like big chunks of 'Hello, Dolly!', 'Funny Girl', and 'Gypsy,' although the last is supposed to be loathed by Sondheim, who of course wrote the lyrics.

Generally, the great movie musicals are made for the screen to begin with.

[sidwich]

'Oliver!' is one which comes to mind that probably is an improvement, esp. since Lean is following up his own b & w masterpiece. I also like big chunks of 'Hello, Dolly!', 'Funny Girl', and 'Gypsy,' although the last is supposed to be loathed by Sondheim, who of course wrote the lyrics.

I think "Oliver!" is Carol Reed, and he does do a really good job of it. Actually, he probably does one of the best jobs of not falling into the museum, waxy-quality that 60's musical adaptations tended to get into, especially when directed by non-musical directors. As much as I generally like William Wyler and George Cukor, I don't think "Funny Girl" or "My Fair Lady" is the best work by either of them.

Bob Fosse also did very well with adapting "Cabaret."

I agree, though, that the best film musicals tend to have been written and directed directly for film. I think they've most been able to take advantage of the qualities intrinsic to the medium, and not get hemmed in by a vision originally developed for stage. Generally, they were also been written specifically for a specific film star to take advantage of his or her specific talents and persona which makes the search for a star that much easier.

[Mary J]

"A Little Night Music" is an excellent example of bad casting with an eye to the box office. It paired Len Cariou (in the Broadway role he originated) with Elizabeth Taylor who was overweight and looked exhausted the entire movie. I hardly believe it was her singing voice. I am amazed it ever made it out of pre-production!

And "The Sound of Music" overcame strange casting by generating some sort of chemistry between its principals - Julie Andrews (who was too old but performed valiantly) and Christopher Plummer (who didn't sing but never let his distaste for the part show through). I, too, missed the Baroness/Max songs, and also hated the "I have confidence" or whatever it was called - one of the worst songs ever in terms of an energetic melody and incomprehensible lyrics!

[canbelto]

The Carousel film was ruined by the 1950s mentality of making musicals wholesome. Carousel has a very dark storyline, and on stage it really packs an emotional wallop, but the movie was really disappointing, although I loved Shirley Jones.

One movie musical that I think is underrated was The Music Man.

Don't get me started on The Sound of Music unless you want an hour-long rant ...

[papeetepatrick]

One movie musical that I think is underrated was The Music Man.

I agree. It's always bracing and fresh, and Hermione Gingold is hilarious: 'What Elinor Glyn reads is her mother's business...'

And what also should be mentioned, along the lines of both original screen musicals and Rodgers & Hammerstein, is 'State Fair.' The 1945 version is very special and is what American musicals were able to be when things when smoothly enough and there was also a clear focus on the material itself. The early 60's version is horrible except for one dance number with sublime leggy young vixen Ann-Margret, one of my favourite things and should have been cast in 'SWEENEY TODD'...And 'Bye Bye Birdie' is wonderful about 2/3 through, at which point it is ruined and Janet Leigh is no dancer.

But I also think the 1978 'Hair' is terrific, with Beverly d'Angelo singing 'Good Morning, Starshine'; and all that stuff in Central Park is beautiful.

[dirac]

And "The Sound of Music" overcame strange casting by generating some sort of chemistry between its principals - Julie Andrews (who was too old but performed valiantly) and Christopher Plummer (who didn't sing but never let his distaste for the part show through).

I thought Andrews was terrific. She's really skipping through a minefield -- many others would have wound up pouring syrup over everything, and hello, she can sing. (Yes, you can have a successful dubbed performance, as we've discussed, but when you have a performer who can really sing and also do justice to the role as an actor, it's great.) To me, Plummer seemed to be wishing that he was elsewhere.

I think My Fair Lady is better than it's generally given credit for, although Rex Harrison was getting too old for the part and had done it too many times. (Robert Preston in The Music Man, same problem.) I wouldn't have cast anyone else in either role, however -- as a practical matter anyone else was unthinkable.

I like the Thirties version of 'Show Boat' with Dunne, Jones, Morgan, Robeson, et al, very much, although Dunne's blackface number is excruciating now and was probably painful to watch back then, too.

papeetepatrick writes:

The 1945 version is very special and is what American musicals were able to be when things when smoothly enough and there was also a clear focus on the material itself.

One of 20th Century Fox's rare good musicals, but I agree, the machinery was in place back then for the production of competent musicals. Only a few would be great or even that good, but you had entire studio units with skill and experience ready at hand, a roster of stars who were the best at what they did, and when the chemistry was right everything worked.

[sidwich]

To me, Plummer seemed to be wishing that he was elsewhere.

I'm not wild on Christopher Plummer as the Captain, either. And I would have preferred someone who could sing. (I don't think Julie Andrews is *that* old...)

I think My Fair Lady is better than it's generally given credit for, although Rex Harrison was getting too old for the part and had done it too many times. (Robert Preston in The Music Man, same problem.) I wouldn't have cast anyone else in either role, however -- as a practical matter anyone else was unthinkable.

Even though it doesn't have music, I prefer the Howard-Hiller film. I'm one of the few, but I really don't like Rex Harrison as Higgins. (His performance in "Unfaithfully Yours" is priceless, though).

I do think "Music Man" gets underrated. Not so sure about the film, but the play always suffered in comparison to "West Side Story" which came out the same season. I think it's an excellent piece, though, really beautifully put together as far as character, music and story.

One of 20th Century Fox's rare good musicals, but I agree, the machinery was in place back then for the production of competent musicals. Only a few would be great or even that good, but you had entire studio units with skill and experience ready at hand, a roster of stars who were the best at what they did, and when the chemistry was right everything worked.

"State Fair" was also one of the few Fox musicals that didn't star a blonde. Dunno how *that* got by Zanuck!

As far as the musical units, I think that's true of filmmaking in general at the time. Goodness knows the studio system had many, many flaws, but the machinery was in place to turn out dozens of films at a time quickly and economically. Not all of them were great, but people got to practice how to make a movie. Now, it's so expensive to make a film that most filmmakers are lucky if they make a film every few years. Eastwood is one of the few that's still turning out a film a year, and it's remarkable. (Not that all his films are great, but he has a greater chance of making a good movie than someone who only turns out a film every 3, 4 or 5 years).

With musicals, I think that's just even more true just because they particularly are both so expensive and difficult to make. There are just so many moving pieces that must be in place to make a musical, and I think that's much of why there are so very few made anymore. So if Burton does get "Sweeney Todd" off the ground, my hat is off to him... even though I'm rather apprehensive about the results.