Leigh Witchel Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 Thanks for that 2dds. I'm sure no further apology or castigation is necessary. [Tiny moderator beanie, perhaps a moderator yarmulke? - that's an order concealed in a polite hint, folks.] The interesting thing for me is that the topic has made me want to go to the minority dancers who are my friends and ask, "what do YOU think?" Link to comment
Helene Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 2dds, The way to start the subject is to click the "New Topic" button at the top of the corresponding forum and state the spin-off issue and/or question, and then to post a link to the new thread on this one. We do often when the conversation forks and there's a reason to continue discussion in another direction. Many posters are shy about doing this, and bart and carbro are most active in stepping in, but it's always an option. Link to comment
Hans Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 I have started a new thread here: Inclusion. Link to comment
bart Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 Thanks, Hans, for doing this, and for your clear definition of the topic. Link to comment
omshanti Posted July 29, 2006 Share Posted July 29, 2006 I hope nobody will mind me writing my experience regarding racism both in and outside of ballet world. First of all I am half Pashto and half Japanese, so to be accurate racially I am a mix of caucasian and mongolian races. Dancers who were similar mix as me are Nijinsky, Nureyev, Charles Jude, Tallchief sisters, Asylmuratova etc......(so many). I found out about the existence of ballet only few years ago when I was 25 and living in Britain. I fell in love with it and started taking classes seriously. Eventhough I was a nonwhite foreigner, every teacher I met encouraged me. Two of them even encouraged me to learn ballet seriously with the goal of being professional even from that age. With their encouragement I auditioned Rambert school of ballet ( which was the only school of ballet that auditioned people above 25) mixing with all the White British teenagers who had much longer experience than me in ballet. There were some Black and south Asian students in the audition too but not many. One auditioner was so kind to me and she spoke to me really kindly every time I made a mistake or appeared nervous in the class. The result was , I was put on the waiting list but in the end was not accepted. But it is obvious that it was because of my age and experience, not race. Still with all my back ground and every thing, I was offered a place on the reserve list. So from my little and short experience in ballet world , I have seen absolutely nothing of racim. Instead I only received warm and kind treatment from every single person. Ballet world is purely a world of ability and talent , and race has no significance in it. Atleast this has been my experience in it. Now allow me to tell a story which has nothing to do with ballet. First of all it might give an idea of racism and its different forms, and second of all sometimes I have a need to let out things that are deep inside me ( forgive me for using this space for doing that) . As I wrote before, I grew up in warzones and refugeecamps of the middle east, and because of my half Japanese looks I was often mistaken for a Hazara. To be graphic , I was often captured , beaten up, tortured because of it. It was a die or live situation for me. But the worst part of it was that instead of hating the people who did that to me, I hated the Hazaras , my own half Japanese side and eventually my own mother. I was a victim of racism but I became a racist myself towards half of my own identity. I experienced racism within myself and I have to say that it is not pleasant. I am not a racist in my head but I became a true racist in my heart and if I am not carefull and do not try to be objective , my true racist part will show itself and I hate it . Every time I read about a massacre of hazaras in the news papers, there is a part of me that is pleased and I am so ashamed of myself for this evil in me but I can not help it. I have been programmed in this way and the only thing I can do is to watch for it and change it little by little. I do not know what I am trying to say but objectivity and rational way of looking at things are what is needed when there is racism whithin oneself. P.S I really agree with the Kabuki analogy Helene wrote. Link to comment
bart Posted July 29, 2006 Share Posted July 29, 2006 Thank you, omshanti. Your story is one that exposes just how complex and powerful ideas and actions of racial superiority and uniqueness can be, making people do and say truly awful things without (possibly) even thinking about it. There are many forms of discrimination and ignorance in the US today (racial, gender, and sexual orientation aong others). You remind us that people are being beaten, mutilated and killed over the same kinds of differences in other parts of the world as we speak. This is terribly sad. But it helps me put the US situation in perspective. Your comments also show how complex our own reactions to the experience (objective as well as subjective) of discrimination can be. And how we can transcend those experiences and reactions. I'm really glad you found ballet -- and that the ballet you have known has been so welcoming and kind. This is truly an example of the healing power of art. Link to comment
Herman Stevens Posted July 29, 2006 Share Posted July 29, 2006 I hope nobody will mind me writing my experience regarding racism both in and outside of ballet world. First of all I am half Pashto and half Japanese, so to be accurate racially I am a mix of caucasian and mongolian races. Dancers who were similar mix as me are Nijinsky, Nureyev, Charles Jude, Tallchief sisters, Asylmuratova etc......(so many). And this is another interesting point Omshanti makes in his great post: the idea (posited over and over on this thread) that classical ballet is one-dimensionally mono-ethnic just doesn't bear a lot of scrutiny. Link to comment
kfw Posted July 29, 2006 Share Posted July 29, 2006 I'd like to address a couple of 2dds' points: Just as men are not ideally positioned to fully appreciate the ins and outs of gender discrimination, our lived experience definitively differs and determines our racially defined realities in this country. Victims of discrimination notice it more often than other people do, but they can also, understandably, become oversensitive and sometimes imagine prejudice where none exists. This may be true of Aesha Ash, for example. She cites only one example of racism in all her years of dancing, a repetiteur who said she didn’t want any brown bodies in the Swan Lake corps. That’s an extremely insensitive remark, and it may have been racist, and of course Ash would be hurt. But if we presume without further evidence that the remark stems from racial prejudice, then perhaps we ought to presume that the cardigan sweater designer who doesn’t want one brown button in a line of white buttons is racially prejudiced. the exclusionary practices incorporated in the history of ballet Elsewhere you say that intent isn't the issue, but "exclusionary" clearly goes to intent. I've asked for evidence of exclusionary practices in ballet today several times. Given the wide knowledge and experience base of so many posters on this board, I think the quality and quantity of examples given in reply pretty much demonstrate that if these practices exist, they're rare. I think it would be good to first agree that we want ballet to be more inclusive, more representative, but I'm not sure everyone agrees this is desirable. I do think this needs to be an acknowledged desirable goal. Whether we think there is discrimination or not, can we agree there is underrepresentation. I think underrepresentation is a loaded word in this case because it suggests that 1) proportionately as many minorities and whites want to be in ballet and 2) proportionately as many minorities as whites are currently talented at ballet. 1) is clearly not the case. This may change as more minorities are exposed to ballet, but for now it’s safe to say that a significantly smaller proportion of minorities has even watched a ballet on television, much less wanted to dance one. Minorities too have their cultural comfort zones. Also, a significantly smaller proportion has been able to afford to go to the ballet, or to put a child in ballet classes (and here fear of racism is probably a factor too). And because 1) is not the case, 2) almost certainly isn’t either. Because the pool of ballerina wannabe’s is proportionately considerably smaller among minorities than among whites, the pool of topnotch minority ballet dancers is probably considerably smaller than that of whites. Because this is so, working to meet racial quotas (by any name, including "inclusion") will in fact lower the quality of the art. If companies shoot for equal opportunity, they’ll attract more and more minority dancers and minority dancers who become choreographers, and enrich the art. But if they measure racism inversely by the number of minority dancers, as some do here, and shoot for mathematical equality, at least in the short run they’ll lower the quality of the art. Link to comment
kfw Posted July 29, 2006 Share Posted July 29, 2006 omshanti, thank you for that beautiful and moving post. Given your experiences, it's completely understandable that you became prejudiced in the first place. I really admire your courage in trying to change. Link to comment
papeetepatrick Posted July 29, 2006 Share Posted July 29, 2006 If companies shoot for equal opportunity, they’ll attract more and more minority dancers and minority dancers who become choreographers, and enrich the art. But if they measure racism inversely by the number of minority dancers, as some do here, and shoot for mathematical equality, at least in the short run they’ll lower the quality of the art. Yes. I do not think that affirmative action can apply in disciplines like ballet and the other classical arts in the same way it can apply to moderately-skilled jobs like television newscasting and a thousand others, where the matters of racial unfairness can be dealt with head-on. Omshanti brought up a very interesting aspect of racism, and one of the most tragic: Sometimes it is the victimized group which one become racist toward because it becomes associated with the misery that has been endured (even when it actually bears less of the guilt). I thought his story moving too, and can see why a good experience within the ballet world would be especially treasured when the element of racism previously experienced was now absent. Of course, that is still one example of a non-racist experience in ballet (which the vast majority of experiences would be, of course) and doesn't cover the full range of what may have occurred elsewhere and might occur again, but it is still important, as are the isolated examples of blatant racism like Raven Wilkinson's story. Link to comment
Helene Posted July 29, 2006 Share Posted July 29, 2006 I'd like to address a couple of 2dds' points:Just as men are not ideally positioned to fully appreciate the ins and outs of gender discrimination, our lived experience definitively differs and determines our racially defined realities in this country. Victims of discrimination notice it more often than other people do, but they can also, understandably, become oversensitive and sometimes imagine prejudice where none exists. This may be true of Aesha Ash, for example. She cites only one example of racism in all her years of dancing, a repetiteur who said she didn’t want any brown bodies in the Swan Lake corps... I've asked for evidence of exclusionary practices in ballet today several times. Given the wide knowledge and experience base of so many posters on this board, I think the quality and quantity of examples given in reply pretty much demonstrate that if these practices exist, they're rare. I think a critical point here is that working dancers rarely bite the hand that feeds them, for good reason. It's the rare dancer like Tsiskaridze who is willing to be interviewed and dismiss management (Ratmansky) the way he did in the recent NPR story. Their livelihood is based on keeping the very few powers in ballet happy. (One word from Balanchine and Suzanne Farrell was virtually unemployable in the US.) In general, dancer interviews make Michelle Kwan's look controversial. I would not expect to hear a wide number of stories of racism from any dancer who wanted to remain working in the profession and wasn't willing to burn all professional bridges. In my opinion, what that means is that we can't know even the extent to which dancers themselves feel that racism is the reason they were not chosen and explicit and coded racist remarks that were made to them, not that either is a rare occurance.That’s an extremely insensitive remark, and it may have been racist, and of course Ash would be hurt. But if we presume without further evidence that the remark stems from racial prejudice, then perhaps we ought to presume that the cardigan sweater designer who doesn’t want one brown button in a line of white buttons is racially prejudiced.I think that exclusion based on skin color or ethnicity alone to further an aesthetic of purity is also racist. I think that in general it takes time to adjust from "that's the way it has always looked" but that making the change is a good goal. Especially since the fallacy of "that's the way it has always looked" can be exposed by looking at historical photos that rg has so kindly posted for us. (Who are all of those short "fat" people anyway?) As we've discussed on several threads here, there has been a trade-off of steps and epaulement for different strengths, in which today's preferred body type excels, and even if today's model is preferred and considered an improvement, there was a loss to get there. I think it would be good to first agree that we want ballet to be more inclusive, more representative, but I'm not sure everyone agrees this is desirable. I do think this needs to be an acknowledged desirable goal. Whether we think there is discrimination or not, can we agree there is underrepresentation. I think underrepresentation is a loaded word in this case because it suggests that 1) proportionately as many minorities and whites want to be in ballet and 2) proportionately as many minorities as whites are currently talented at ballet. 1) is clearly not the case. This may change as more minorities are exposed to ballet, but for now it’s safe to say that a significantly smaller proportion of minorities has even watched a ballet on television, much less wanted to dance one. Minorities too have their cultural comfort zones. Also, a significantly smaller proportion has been able to afford to go to the ballet, or to put a child in ballet classes (and here fear of racism is probably a factor too). And because 1) is not the case, 2) almost certainly isn’t either. Because the pool of minority ballerina wannabe’s is proportionately considerably smaller among minorities than among whites, the pool of topnotch minority ballet dancers is probably considerably smaller than that of whites. Because this is so, working to meet racial quotas (by any name, including "inclusion") will in fact lower the quality of the art. If companies shoot for equal opportunity, they’ll attract more and more minority dancers and minority dancers who become choreographers, and enrich the art. But if they measure racism inversely by the number of minority dancers, as some do here, and shoot for mathematical equality, at least in the short run they’ll lower the quality of the art. 2dds gave a list of action items in this post (which has been copied to a new thread called Inclusion), most of which address how to increase the number of minority students and extend the audience. I don't see any suggestion that the standards of ballet be lowered to increase the number of minority dancers. In my opinion, what increases the chances of finding that rare dancer that transports us, is a good thing. Putting aside self-interest is the most puzzling thing I find about prejudice in general. Link to comment
bart Posted July 29, 2006 Share Posted July 29, 2006 Thanks, kfw, for that very thoughtful post. I agree with (almost) all that you say. You remind us how important it is to avoid the mistake of thinking that under-representation of any group in an activity like ballet is evidence per se of discrimination or active policies of "exclusion." We have huge amounts of free choice in our society in 2006, and individual decisions clearly play the biggest (though not the only) role in whether or not members of one group or other participates in large numbers in an activity. Also, as another poster said earlier in this thread, individuals often choose to become involved in arts that are more closely based in the subculture to which they feel most connected. This is natural, and often has incredibly positive results, benefitting the individual and enriching the culture as a whole. This does not, however, speak to the situation of individuals who do choose ballet -- or might to do so if they were encouraged and supported in their choice. Nor does it offer much comfort to those who are to one extent or other discouraged somewhere along the line. I guess what I'm trying to say is that, while it is wrong to exaggerrate the extent or to universalize a problem, we still need to take seriously the evidence that DOES exist for exclusion on the basis of race. (Remembering that "exclusion" also contains such subtler forms of discrimination as "discouragement" and "failure to support.") Thank you also for pursuing the question of the accuracy and/or seriousness of some of the anecdotal evidence of racism that has been repeated numerous times in these threads over the past few years. I have no doubt that some of these stories will continue to circulate in this debate whether or not they're the full truth, but you have helped to put them in perspective for us. P.S. One of the virtues of the free range of opinions and experienced presented in these posts is that they are helping me -- by picking and choosing, agreeing and quibbling -- to come to a closer understanding of what I think is the truth of this complex matter. to all who have contributed. Link to comment
hermes Posted July 29, 2006 Share Posted July 29, 2006 Whew. That took a while! OK, I think I get it. Something I've experienced as a teacher is, I guess you'd call it, reverse racism. I've had black students who believe ballet isn't a "black" thing to do; and further that if there is a black person doing ballet, they are trying to be white. As a director, I want movers. I really couldn't care less about skin color. In theatre, this was called 'non-traditional casting'. Hopefully, racism will continue to wain; at least in my peer group 25 - 35 year-olds, this seems to be the case. Though, I think the original post makes some good points about there not being enough diversity in major companies; I think this will disappear as the newer generation ascends to positions of power. I believe, and pray, the generation after me will be even less concerned with race, until eventually, God willing, we can collectively GET OVER IT! An interesting situation that happened to me recently was a phone call I got from a friend looking for a short girl. She had to be short as the part was that of Pearl in The Scarlet Letter (heightism?). My friend had some people in mind, and I knew how to contact them so I called them first. Those folks weren't available so I suggested a friend of mine who is short, is awesome, and happens to be black. I will admit there was concern as to whether it would be appropriate to cast a black woman in this part because Pearl, in this reading of the book, is wild and somewhat of an anti-hero (heroine? Geez, it's so hard to know what is the right term to use these days!). Anyway, my friend was worried that casting a black person in the role might somehow communicate a racist view of black people (e.g. perpetuating any negative stereotypes about black folks (this is taking place in the South, btw)); not to mention it might be confusing to the audience to see two lillywhite people with a black child. OK, so the whole conversation is racist! Eventually, my friend hired my black friend and the performance is next weekend. The point is, everyone's is a little bit racist. I think it unfair to single out ballet as an example of institutional racism, or of being racist in any sense. We're just people trying to put on a show; and as I mentioned above this situation is something that will improve with time if we can get over ourselves. That's more than two cents, but I often find myself stirred up about this because I just wish we could all get along, and I really don't care if that is cliche, sounds weak, or whatever, IMHO it is the honest truth. Link to comment
Mel Johnson Posted July 29, 2006 Share Posted July 29, 2006 A friend of mine, who happens to be a Methodist minister, has a characteristic to add to the commonly-held definition of racism: That the racist has the power to administer sanctions against a person or group based on real or imagined racial or ethnic identity. Simply noting that someone is of African descent, or Arab, or Asian isn't sufficient to constitute racism. There has to be a behavior associated with it. Link to comment
kfw Posted July 29, 2006 Share Posted July 29, 2006 Helene, you make a good point that dancer victims of discrimination would be afraid to speak up. But on average dance careers are relatively short, shorter than the tenures of a lot of current artistic directors. If prejudice exists, why don't we hear about it from retired dancers? As for exclusion based on skin color, I think the key question is whether or not it's done to preserve "purity," as you put it, or uniformity. The former has ugly historical overtones. The latter is mere aesthetic preference, and if we factor out race for a moment, everyone understands that preference whether or not they share it. The corp swans wear the same costumes and do the same steps. No one dresses in brown. If the convention was that everyone wore blond wigs as well, it wouldn't be prejudiced for an AD to refuse to cast a dancer who refused to wear one. In my opinion a corps with a brown-skinned swan is equally beautiful as a uniformly white corps, but it is a different picture. I can understand how some people could prefer the old picture, especially at first. We can argue that it's imperative, for sociological reasons, that they put their taste aside, but we have no grounds to presume they're racist for having that taste in the first place. "Racist" is such an ugly charge. I know there are many other insidious forms of racism, and that we need to talk about them and discuss whether or not something's racist, but I wish we could find other terms, and not call a preference for an all-white swan corps by the same name as we refer to Bull Connor's hate crimes. Of course I know no one's equating the two, but in matters like this the charge has an unmerited rhetorical force anyhow, and that force can cloud our thinking. Also, of course no one wants to lower the standards of ballet, and 2dds offered some intriguing ways to include more minorities in dance. But several people speak of minorities being underrepresented right now, and as I tried very simply to show, bumping up representation right away would lower quality. Link to comment
Leigh Witchel Posted July 29, 2006 Share Posted July 29, 2006 kfw, I'm definitely sympathetic to the idea of assuming that people aren't hateful rather than that they are, but your example is unfortunate. A preference purely based on color is, in fact, textbook racism. It's not as damaging, but it's prejudice and needs to be pointed out. One wouldn't need to say, "Hey, you're RACIST!!!!1!" to the rehearsal director, but you certainly should say, "In dark blue lighting, with everyone wearing pink tights and pale powder, can you really tell they're different colors? Why does it matter so much?" Link to comment
kfw Posted July 29, 2006 Share Posted July 29, 2006 Leigh, I hadn't thought of the lighting issue, but many people have preferences based on color, specifically a preference for certain things to be all one striking color. Why does that become racist when it's transferred to a ballet corps? Link to comment
Helene Posted July 29, 2006 Share Posted July 29, 2006 Helene, you make a good point that dancer victims of discrimination would be afraid to speak up. But on average dance careers are relatively short, shorter than the tenures of a lot of current artistic directors. If prejudice exists, why don't we hear about it from retired dancers?I can think of several reasons. First, there can be a general perception that someone who did not make it wasn't talented enough and is using race/gender/height/weight/you name it as an excuse. Complaining about race, certainly in this post-affirmative-action climate, can be interpreted as sore losers. ("We let you into Harvard, why don't you shut up?")Second, ballet is a very small world. I've never worked in ballet, specifically, but I have worked in institutions, and there is a lot of institutional pressure to conform. How I behave is considered a reflection on my boss and my boss's boss. If I am unreliable, then they are unreliable, by association. If I am unpredictable, they are nervous. I could see how teachers and academies, who rely on institutions run by a close-knit group to hire their students, could be burned if a former student of theirs was a squeaky wheel. Why take a chance on this teacher's recommendation, if this could happen? Disclosure never occurs in a vacuum, which is why there are whistleblower laws, and retaliation runs deep. If ballet is to become racially diverse, then for the best chance of success, there needs to be a large pool of young children who start the discipline young. Stating publicly that there is prejudice and racism is likely to cause parents and children to say, "why bother?" Because dancers experience or feel they experience racism or any kind of unfair treatment does not mean that the love and dedication they have to the art and the loyalty they have to teachers who've encouraged them and their schools disappears automatically, nor that some hope that the future will be less onorous for the next generation. Link to comment
bart Posted July 29, 2006 Share Posted July 29, 2006 Great stuff, so far! May I respond to one point made by Mel? Simply noting that someone is of African descent, or Arab, or Asian isn't sufficient to constitute racism. There has to be a behavior associated with it. I agree -- and appreciate the elegance and brevity of the way the point is made. Overuse (and sometimes trivial use) of the "racism" charge nowadays often has the effect of turning people off. This includes members of all ethnic communities, not just whites. But ... there are always "buts" with this issue. Back in the 1970s I recall seeing the results of an international study in which children of different ages and from a number of different countries were asked to describe people based on line drawings. Some drawings contained skin color variation, others did not. I don't recall the results in detail -- and unfortunately can't access the research -- but I do remember some generalizations that impressed me at the time. First, the youngest children talked about gender, size, etc., but not about skin color. At a certain age level, they began including skin color in their descriptions. This rapidly became one of the first impressions that they reported and one that appeared to them to be extremely important. Some countries were more aware of, and concerned about, skin color than others. Two of the countries in which this happened earliest and most frequently were the United States and (surprise!) India. Being aware of ethnic difference is part of growing up and happens in all societies. The IMPORTANCE one attaches to these differences, however, and they way in which these perceptions tend to become predictive of success or failure, respect or disresect, is a social productd. And it is much more significant than the perception per se. Another thought: I would not cast a dark-skin actor to be the child of two white parents any more than I would cast a white actor to be child of two black parents. The appearance of color would inevitably raise questions about whether the person WAS really their child (or possibly adopted, or the product of some kind of illicit liaison). This this would create a huge distraction that would very much undermine the point of the play, changing it -- merely by the casting -- into a very different play from the one the author intended. Skin-color variation among the swans, shades or wilils -- or with an Odette, Nikiya, or Giselle -- would also be noticed by most in the audience -- and would be distracting to a few. But it would be perfectly consistent with the role and plot in today's value system. I would do such casting with pleasure. Who cares, after all, if a black Giselle would have been unthinkable in 16th-century Germany? The favorable reception of Arthur Mitchell in Agon fifty years ago -- even in his pas de deux with the white Diana Adams -- is something this boy from a lily-white commuter suburb will never forget. Incidentally, let's say a talented African American ballerina were developed and encouraged to the point that she became a superb Odette. If I ran that company I'd have her story and photo in every newspaper, magazine and tv station in my market. What a wonderful story. Do you honestly think your subscriber base would object in 2006? And would't you be able to think of all sorts of ways to attract new audiences to the theater, based on the power of her dancing and story? Link to comment
Helene Posted July 29, 2006 Share Posted July 29, 2006 Another thought: I would not cast a dark-skin actor to be the child of two white parents any more than I would cast a white actor to be child of two black parents. The appearance of color would inevitably raise questions about whether the person WAS really their child (or possibly adopted, or the product of some kind of illicit liaison). This this would create a huge distraction that would very much undermine the point of the play, changing it -- merely by the casting -- into a very different play from the one the author intended.I guess I just know so many single women, and fertility-challenged and blended families who have adopted children of all races and skin tones or had children with other spouses that this tends to go over my head now, and I forget how 15 years ago, it wouldn't have.ETA: Plus, my attention span is very short for theater, and my mind has been known to wander off at the most trivial observation or distraction... Link to comment
kfw Posted July 29, 2006 Share Posted July 29, 2006 Helene, I think those are great reasons for why if racism is a problem in ballet, some dancers might not report it. Bart, you saw Mitchell and Adams in Agon? Could you please upload your memories to YouTubeIt? :cool2: Link to comment
kfw Posted July 29, 2006 Share Posted July 29, 2006 my attention span is very short for theater, and my mind has been known to wander off at the most trivial observation or distraction... Considering how sharp your ballet observations are, that's a little hard to believe. Link to comment
bart Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 Re Mitchell and Agon: New York City (Manhattan, anyway) was, in many senses, a totally different planet from most of the USA at that time. Even though the ballet appeared when sex and marriage between whites and blacks was still illegal in many states -- and though most of the people in the audience would have vivid memories of a time when mobs of good religious Americans felt no guilt and faced no consequences afer torturing and killing black men who were unlucky enough to have been charged with "interfering" with a white woman -- I remember NO negative vibrations from these performances. If anything, the contrary was true. People were actually glad and rather proud to be part of this early statement of a new value system -- as well as sticking it in the face of what was thought of, in those days, as a "southern" problem. I'm sure the color difference was part of what made these Agon performances so rivetting, and I'm sure many felt a tension in that. But it was NOT the tension of moral outrage. Later, Mitchell danced the pas de deux with other women. Then the role was picked up by white male dancers, where it was different but where it worked, in its own way, just as well. Not better. Not worse. But different. P.S. I should add that my earlier statement about not casting someone of one race to perform the child of two parents of another race applied only to the situation described by hermes, one which involved The Scarlet Letter, where such casting would obviously contradict the plot and the intentions of the author. pp.s.: YouTubeIt? Is this one more technological wonder I am the last living American to know nothing about? Link to comment
hermes Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 P.S. I should add that my earlier statement about not casting someone of one race to perform the child of two parents of another race applied only to the situation described by hermes, one which involved The Scarlet Letter, where such casting would obviously contradict the plot and the intentions of the author. It will be interesting to learn the response of the audience. I think because the story is so well known, and it's being performed in perhaps the most progressive city in the Southeast, it will be noted and hopefully forgotten. I was thinking about what it would be like to have a white Othello? I know that this has happened with Domingo performing in dark makeup; I should hasten to add that the complications of having a black performer in white makeup would preclude such a thing. Although I understand Dwight Rhoden did a piece at Ole Miss using black dancers in white-face and white dancers in black-face to address the issue head on. For myself, I want to call the whole thing off. You know? There are so many people killing each other because of their ethnicity I am comforted to know that reasonable people, at least in my experience in ballet, are ready to grow up and realize that we are really one people on one planet with precious little time on our hands. Oh Lord, I'm about to start a chorus of Kum Bi Ya, heaven forbid. Link to comment
bart Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 I was thinking about what it would be like to have a white Othello? As I recall, Shakespeare doesn't really spend many words on Othello's color, or on the black man/ white woman contrast. But there's a constant reference to "this Moor," "the Moor," and this is often in quite a negative context: "lascivious Moor," "rude" (i.e. rough or uncivilized), etc. Desdemona's father calls Othello "Moor" rather than his own name, and refers to him repeatedly by using the label. Everything is set up to suggest a wide range of contrasts between the world of Desdemona and the world of Othello. People in those days had a definite image (visual and otherwise) of just what a Moor was like. The word itself made the point. I don't think, for instance, that makeup that darkened the skin was a feature of the earliest Othello performances. Shakespeare's point is contrast. And color difference for many societies is the ultimate -- and the most powerful -- human contrast. But not the only one. A white Othello would have to be dressed and presented as something very exotic and threatening indeed for him to have the effect on today's audiences that the mere word "Moor" had on those of Shakespeare's time. Link to comment
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