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Live From Lincoln Center 30th Anniversary


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I think its a horrible waste, the fact that these wondrous films are just sitting in some room collecting dust somewhere. I know that there are politics, etc. concerning rights, royalties, what have you but C'MON! Maybe PBS should have made up contracts where they owned the films 100%, but then again maybe it never would have aired otherwise. HEY, Maybe in 50 years or some of these films will be in the public domain, and those of us still living can watch them!

I KNOW! :lightbulb: PBS should have some weekly show where all of these old films are aired, instead of them sitting around and SERVING NO PURPOSE.

Probably theonly thing that is gonna show up on this anniversery PBS thing is some opera or symphony that someone could just go get at the library and watch anyway......

sorta like that Giselle film with Makarova and Baryshnikov everyone is voting for! :blink: ?

I dont remember, as usual, where I read this, maybe it was in Dance Resarch, but it was recently, and it was of an old article I believe -

Clive Barnes once wrote about what a shame it is that so many dancers are not filmed, and that many films are not available, etc........anyway the article spoke to that effect. He even says what a shame it is that the only film of Nijinsky in his prime is of him walking out of a hotel (?)

Does anyone know what Im talking about?

Edited by Solor
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Antoinette Sibley does, Solor. She said in an interview how deeply she regretted that so little of her work of her best years was recorded, that the technology to make it economically feasible was just coming into use at the very end of her career.

We all know what you're talking about. Now that video cameras are so inexpensive -- and film and its processing unnecessary -- we can have a lot more. That's my hope, anyway. Whether it's commercially available may be another issue, but at least records of dancers in their roles can be made.

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Solor that's a great idea. For those of you who are members of Channel 13 or PBS, maybe you can start a movement to get PBS to broadcast these past presentations more often!!

I believe the Royal Opera House has started to videotape ballet and opera perfs. for sale???

I would easily pay double for some of the ABT perfs. I have seen over the years.

For example, who would not pay a king's ransom to have that 1st Corsaire perf. from 2005 w/Bocca, Corrella, H. Cornejo, JM Carreno, etc; or McKerrow's last perf. in Giselle.

Damn the costs and full speed ahead!!!

How about Opera and Ballet on Demand TV!!!! Yes I am going to the dark side!!!!!!! :lightbulb::blink:

Edited by fandeballet
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I would easily pay double for some of the ABT perfs. I have seen over the years.

For example, who would not pay a king's ransom to have that 1st Corsaire perf. from 2005 w/Bocca, Corrella, H. Cornejo, JM Carreno, etc; or McKerrow's last perf. in Giselle.

Damn the costs and full speed ahead!!!

How about Opera and Ballet on Demand TV!!!! Yes I am going to the dark side!!!!!!! :lightbulb::blink:

My thoughts exactly!!! I'd pay my whole savings for some of these performances! :) that Corsaire performance is worth..a lot. As are many others. And I am sure they were taped. Farewell performances especially MUST be taped, no? I remember we had the discussion a few months ago about taping of performances..NYCB tapes every performance, so they DO have them somewhere. I say, seriously, that we inquire about them. Or just out of curiosity, if we called up the press dept. at ABT and just asked them outright if performances are taped on a regular basis. Maybe I'd rest if I just knew they were sitting somewhere...

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... I remember we had the discussion a few months ago about taping of performances..NYCB tapes every performance, so they DO have them somewhere. I say, seriously, that we inquire about them....

Sorry, but they will NEVER be released. It is required by contract with the dancers that when they record a full performance the sound must be flawed with "beeps" and running visual flaws must "be inserted to further prevent commercial usage." NYPL for the Performing Arts is permitted Archival videos, but "never" to be commercially distributed. The contract covers these matters on pp. 23-26 below:

http://www.musicalartists.org/ContractsDan...B_2005-2009.pdf

Edited by drb
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... I remember we had the discussion a few months ago about taping of performances..NYCB tapes every performance, so they DO have them somewhere. I say, seriously, that we inquire about them....

Sorry, but they will NEVER be released. It is required by contract with the dancers that when they record a full performance the sound must be flawed with "beeps" and running visual flaws must "be inserted to further prevent commercial usage." NYPL for the Performing Arts is permitted Archival videos, but "never" to be commercially distributed. The contract covers these matters on pp. 23-26 below:

http://www.musicalartists.org/ContractsDan...B_2005-2009.pdf

Sorry if I was unclear, I meant I was interested if they ARE in fact taping on a regular basis, not even for commercial release but just for archival purposes, whether at the NYPL or the dancers/companies collections. ...and to encourage more to be submitted to the NYPL! :-) Thanks for the link, though, drb.

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I just wander that if they take the plunge and comercially sell at least some of these perfs., what revenue the companies and unions could make together??? Ballet and opera dvds for 50-100 dollars each, for example? Just being sold at each venue's gift shop. Could we open up another revenue stream that will help in these times of austere budgets and donations????????

Edited by fandeballet
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The issue is not just financial - there is immense manpower involved in going back to renegotiate every single contract for performances that occured 30 years ago. There's no saying where the original signers are now, so it would take an immense amount of time to do that. So it's not just a matter of cost paid to the union at the time of release, its the time and cost it takes to renegotiate a contract that was made under a different environment.

Additionally, costs likely go up significantly when a performance is to be released commercially. Live from Lincoln Center was designed as a one-off deal for many of these performances, in order to make production costs more feasible for the television program. Programs such as Great Performances or Dance in America are more likely to have the contract set from the start.

So while it may not be technically impossible to do such a thing, I don't think the powers at be can afford to go through the ffort of renegotiating a release of a broadcast that would have limited commercial appeal.

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An e just received from Lincoln Center says that Peter Martins will introduce Dance and mentions the 6/30/76 Swan Lake and also a Vienna Waltzes from 5/5/04.

The Swan Lake is one with Makarova and Nagy. Very short. The Vienna Waltzes is just the last bit right before the ending - no solos.

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This article over at danceviewtimes sheds light on the contract issues, and the concept of the series:

John Goberman interview

I share everyone's disappointment at missing these films, and I've never seen the ones from the 70s and 80s, but I like the idea that Live at Lincoln Center records performance as an ephemeral experience, as it is in life.

I agree that the current situation hurts the dancers and their reputations. My favorite clips of Fonteyn and Sibley are in the NYPL. And is there commercially available video of Violette Verdy? I watched her there in La Source and was overwhelmed by her musicality and wit. That clip was interesting because it had been filmed without sound, which was rerecorded later under her supervision. Who knows what the original was like, but at least she had some ownership of her performance. Shouldn't dancers be able to compile their own best-ofs?

And I'm worried about the condition of all those library holdings. Some are very fragile. Are they being transferred to DVD? I would certainly contribute money to such an effort. Even if they are unavailable commercially they must be maintained in libraries. It would be nice if the collection could be digitized and available online, although that thrusts us back into thorny contract issues. Couldn't there be an inter-library loan program, at least?

I like living in New York, but it doesn't seem fair that you would have to travel here to see these things. If a larger audience had access, I imagine balletgoers might have more sophisticated taste. That is, an appetite for more than the warhorses on tours. Kristin Sloan and David Hallberg were addressing this issue recently on The Winger by calling for more video clips on company websites, like some European companies have. It makes sense to preview what you're paying $50 for.

Overall, I wish companies and dancers could seize more control of how they are presented. I'm pretty unsatisfied with the quality of commercial DVDs, which have scant liner notes, no extras, and are poorly mastered.

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This article over at danceviewtimes sheds light on the contract issues, and the concept of the series:

John Goberman interview

I share everyone's disappointment at missing these films, and I've never seen the ones from the 70s and 80s, but I like the idea that Live at Lincoln Center records performance as an ephemeral experience, as it is in life.

I disagree with Goberman's premise that the filmed version only represents an ephemeral experience that a re-broadcast -- done for each of the live broadcasts anyway on public TV during the week of the original broadcast -- cannot, particularly for ballet. By definition the camera defines a point of view and imposes it on the viewer. This is not the same as viewing a live ballet, where the audience members choose their focus and even whether or not to see close ups using opera glasses. What makes it "live" the first or seventy-fifth viewing for those of us lucky enough to have taped/TiVo'ed it is that it is broadcast in sequence and the bloopers aren't edited or re-worked, apart from those obscured by camera selection.

The idea that if you miss it, it's gone forever is a selfish point of view, in my opinion, if you put a camera on it and tape it in the first place. "I have it, and you don't" is the message I hear.

The Metropolitan Opera offers a limited selection of historic broadcasts on CD for $100 ($85 tax deductable) and $150 ($135 tax deductable).

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The idea that if you miss it, it's gone forever is a selfish point of view, in my opinion, if you put a camera on it and tape it in the first place. "I have it, and you don't" is the message I hear.

The Metropolitan Opera offers a limited selection of historic broadcasts on CD for $100 ($85 tax deductable) and $150 ($135 tax deductable).

Helene,

I thought much of what Goberman said was annoying and self serving.

I understand clearly the issue of contracts to release some of this stuff commercially. If it wasn't negotiated upfront , it's a huge challenge.

But just sticking with 2 of the Live From Lincoln Center items, the ABT Swan Lake and Giselle WERE commercially released. Not just on VHS, the Swan Lake was released by BelCanto on VHS, but also by Pioneer and from the clarity of my copy, I would say it was a Laserdisc. I don't accept that these at least can't be released on DVD. And no one would buy them???

As you note, the Met has been able to go back, years and years after the fact and gotten releases for

some broadcasts. Perhaps that these are fundraisers made the deals easier to set up.

But the Met has also evidently figured out a way to release on DVD some of it's early telecasts from the late 70s and 80s. Were they smart enough to forsee the economic value these items would have 25+ years later and have commercial release addressed in the original contracts? Maybe or maybe they have decided there

is a market for these old telecasts and they figured out a way to negotiate .

Goberman mostly sounded like he didn't want any boats rocked and the Met issue may be cleaner (Live from the Met.....Met performances) and the Live from Lincoln Center with performances from various entities of Lincoln Center

Richard

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Let’s say that we were today going to take this VHS of “Swan Lake” with Natalia Makarova and Ivan Nagy, or “Giselle” with Makarova and Mikhail Baryshnikov and sell it. How many do you think we can sell? There was a time when there was a real market here for performances like this. Rights were bought out and contracts were signed with this intent, this was 10, 15 years ago, and I can tell you most of them have not paid their costs back.

I find this incredibly implausible, given the huge DVD boom of archived arts performances that are now sold on kultur or VAI or DG or any number of labels. I mean, Kultur releases a 1966 film of Romeo and Juliet, and it's obviously sold well enough to be still on the market. VAI releases Maria Tallchief's Bell Telephone Hour performances. So there's markets for these performances but not for a Swan Lake with Makarova and Nagy? Sorry, I don't get it.

It also seems like he's very fixated on the word "live," and doesn't seem to realize that many recorded performances are/were "live" and they have been released commercially. I honestly don't get it.

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PUH-LEEEEZE! Goberman (I keep typing Government :devil: , perhaps not inaptly in this case, but applied to other matters) distorts things as badly as he claims pre-taped performances do! At The Moment it is beamed from the Met/Avery Fisher/NYST, it is live, but for those who have vcrs and dvrs, and for the folks who watch the weekend rerun, it is just as canned as an old I Love Lucy. It's good enough to see once, why not twice? Why not seven times? Why bother with this commemoration at all since, as he says, it's the Live factor that is primary?

As for the dearth of commercially released videos, you have to ask why the market has shrunk. Well, in the Old Days, broadcasters were required to devote a set minimum of air time to "community service." That minimum has been radically reduced, I suspect the definition of community service is narrower. Arts in the public schools have dried up, and there's so very little on tv. There's no market, because young people have not been exposed to the degree their parents' generation has. It's a circular tragedy.

How long, then, before it's "Well, we can't justify keeping the Met open. Nobody comes. Even our benefactors (all three of them) can't support us!" To the degree that Live From Lincoln Center fails to confront the problem, it compounds the problem. It might not be a bad idea to consider video sales a loss leader, but intrinsic to the arts' ultimate subsistence.

Goberman says, "You don’t want to step on a performance. You don’t want to have too much music, the dance people will be bored. But then the music people might be bored during 'Apollo.' " I've seen many, many performances of Apollo. Unless I've been mistaken every time, there is music involved. Do "music people" lack eyelids?

Revealing interview in its way, Dale. Many thanks.

Edited by carbro
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Goberman says, "You don’t want to step on a performance. You don’t want to have too much music, the dance people will be bored. But then the music people might be bored during 'Apollo.' " I've seen many, many performances of Apollo. Unless I've been mistaken every time, there is music involved. Do "music people" lack eyelids?

Like you, carbro, I remember a time and place where cultured people went to the theater, opera, concerts and dance (all of which were represented on television more than they are today) and were encouraged to make connections -- and seek collaborations -- among them all. This spirit seems definitely to have survived on Ballet Talk. Is it really dead elsewhere?

It's interesting but terribly sad that Goberman -- and possibly the cultural establishment in general -- see the audience for the arts as so compartmentalized, sticking to what it likes (or knows) best, and apparently unwilling to cross over to other art forms. Or is this a case of self-fulfilling prophecy? :devil:

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From the Classic Arts Showcase FAQ:

    Can I get a program guide?
    We do not publish a program guide because our weekly 8 hour show is downlinked by hundreds of channels across the country at different times, with different schedules, and we can never tell you when any particular clip will play in any particular area. Also, if people knew what was coming up they would only watch clips they like, and perhaps never try anything new. Surprise is an important part of our strategy of creating a new audience for the arts. [emphasis mine]

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They got the date for the Swan Lake performance wrong by five years (but Peter had it correct in his intro). More importantly they showed the dancers in their weakest part (BS turns), when what was needed for posterity was Natasha's Odette exit, back to the audience and her real wings rippling from her solar plexus to the stage's wings.

Misha, even in this his least successful performance of Albrecht, was still a marvel.

But it was Mr. B's "hooker" (a drink of Vodka) for everyone that still lingers in heart and memory. And the Apollo excerpt was very generous, and fine preparation (and challenge) for ABT's upcomming performances. I was so incredibly fortunate to have attended all these performances.

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I put the TV on in time to see Lincoln and Mr. B cavorting with the vodka bottle, and suddenly that golden time came back. Like drb, I was incredibly fortunate to have been there, and to have accepted Mr. B's invitation of a hooker on the way out. (Funny how the vocabulary has changed irrevocably in so short a time.) What I saw of the broadcast was glorious -- Beverly Sills in her prime, Samuel Ramey easily winning the most-hair baritone sweepstakes over Thomas Hampson, Kathleen Battle restored to the good graces of her colleagues, the great Luciano demonstrating convincingly that his, indeed, was one of the greatest tenor voices of all time. Yes, I think music came off better then dance on the show, but nothing can compare with the Great Performances of my memory.

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