Andrea Quinn

[oberon]

In an article about female conductors in the NY Times today, it is reported that Andrea Quinn will leave NYCB at the conclusion of her present contract in June 2006. She plans to move back to England.

[Dale]

Thanks for plucking this out. My first reaction is "Thank God." While she has somewhat gotten the orchestra in better shape (retirements and reassignments might have something to do with that), she has ruined or nearly ruined dozens of performances with her out-of-control conducting. Either her excitment runs away with her during fast sections or she has no control over the orchestra. I always get the idea that she is not paying attention to the dancers. The Theme and Variations section in Tschaikovsky Suite No. 3 has been a typical casualty. The pace at which the music ran away during woman's first solo had Weese and Whelan scrambling last year and Sylve was forced to do the same on Wednesday. In other ways, I think Quinn is a good conductor but there has to be responsiveness from the pit with the stage (I'm not in favor of dancers setting wayward tempos but am looking for a little give and take so a dancer can feel free to play with the music).

[dewdrop]

nytimes

Here's the article. Its the 5th paragraph:

Ms. Zhang is one of three women conducting established orchestras in the New York area this weekend. Anu Tali, 32, from Estonia, made her American debut this week with the New Jersey Symphony as part of its Northern Lights Festival, in a program to be presented again tonight, tomorrow and Sunday. And Andrea Quinn, a 40-year-old Englishwoman who is the music director of the New York City Ballet, leads performances at the New York State Theater. (Ms. Quinn recently announced that she will leave the dance company when her contract expires in June 2006, to return to Britain.)

These artists represent a new wave of female conductors in their late 20's through early 40's.

[zerbinetta]

While very much in favor of music conducted/played/sung "come scritto", I do feel there needs to be a bit of leeway when it comes to dance, especially when choreographed to an existing work. Quinn's T&V Wednesday night robbed the section of its romance & robbed the magisterial Sylve of the ability to completely finish one phrase before beginning the next.

It always seems as though Quinn has a fast approaching dinner reservation in mind.

[Dale]

While very much in favor of music conducted/played/sung "come scritto", I do feel there needs to be a bit of leeway when it comes to dance, especially when choreographed to an existing work. Quinn's T&V Wednesday night robbed the section of its romance & robbed the magisterial Sylve of the ability to completely finish one phrase before beginning the next.

It always seems as though Quinn has a fast approaching dinner reservation in mind.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh, I am definitely in favor of the NYCB way with playing the music at the proper tempo. And you're right about the phrases. There were times I thought Sylve could have hung on to a line or a note a little longer but Quinn just kept plowing along. Keep it the right tempo, but show some sensitivity to the dancer. Keep eye contact, just like in chamber music.

[Michael]

Take her away though and what have you got?

The two other conductors one sees regularly are just as bad and even worse at times, but in other ways. Moredock conducted Ballo on Tuesday and was totally inconsistent in his tempos. Ruinous results, La Bouder trying to hit the accents on her pirouettes ending with jetees to the side, the orchestra simply going along in an inconsistent parallel universe. The other, Kaplow, maintains eye contact with the dancers but is chronically hesitant and insecure -- You see him looking at the dancer, and the dancer looking at him, and both hesitating, and it's like that game you play where you put out your hands, and the other person holds their hands underneath and then tries quickly to slap yours, and it's your job to pull your hands away and to avoid being slapped. He's better than Moredock but seldom better than Quinn. Just different faults. The Asian woman who guested for some Nutcrackers this Fall did a fabulous job with both the dancers and the orchestral soloists as well but I'd bet it will be Opera which will claim her. Much more good serious music there and much more reputation to be made for a good, serious conductor.

So with Quinn's departure, though it's inevitable, it may prove to be another case of "Be careful what you wish for " or what "you wished for."

[oberon]

Although at times I felt Quinn was TOO fast, a few years ago there were some complaints that NYCB - once known as a fast company - was getting slow. She did get the tempi going and I found myself sometimes hearing inner voices in some of the thrice familiar music that had previously eluded me. Overall, I found her a breath of fresh air.

[charlieloki]

does anyone recall ms quinn's speedway 500 conducting of symphony in c, early on?

the dancers looked like frantic ants.

i spoke with one of the orchestra's violinists on the 11 bus home a while back, and this person said the orchestra really liked her.

however, the dancers are the game, and the orchestra is there to serve them.

[richard53dog]

however, the dancers are the game, and the orchestra is there to serve them.

Well, I think that is a bit of a simplification.

First I would say that the needs of the dancers has to be one of the primary elements considered. No question there.

But think about it. We have the music, which is executed by the orchestra. We have the choreography, which is in a sense, a visualization of the music.

And the dancers execute the choreography.

So the whole thing is really a coordinated hybrid form, with a carefully balanced

structure. And all the elements have to find a harmony, and this CAN be pretty tricky, especially when the music and choregraphy are fixed (i.e. neither the composer nor the choreography is available for adjustment to their components)

Richard

Edited January 14, 2005 by richard53dog

[nysusan]

Quinn has conducted at such a fast pace sometimes that it has really ruined some performances for me. Most recent example - Sylve in T&V on Wed. Sylve was wonderful in so many ways but her agadio seemed so rushed that I felt it really lacked lyricism & a sense of mystery. It seemed overly athletic, glossing over the artistic elements. In the back of my mind I was wondering how much was due to her sensibilities & how much due to the conducting. That shouldn't be. When a dancer doesn't hold a pose or finish a phrase I want to know that it's due to their interpretation, not because they're being rushed by the conductor. Of course you want to respect the intent of the composer, but the orchestra also has to respect the choreography & the dancers. I'll be glad to see Quinn go!

[charlieloki]

however, the dancers are the game, and the orchestra is there to serve them.

Well, I think that is a bit of a simplification.

First I would say that the needs of the dancers has to be one of the primary elements considered. No question there.

But think about it. We have the music, which is executed by the orchestra. We have the choreography, which is in a sense, a visualization of the music.

And the dancers execute the choreography.

So the whole thing is really a coordinated hybrid form, with a carefully balanced

structure. And all the elements have to find a harmony, and this CAN be pretty tricky, especially when the music and choregraphy are fixed (i.e. neither the composer nor the choreography is available for adjustment to their components)

Richard

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yes, a simplification, i agree

thanks, richard, your comments are quite concise and do help to clarify the situation

when an audience perceives, knowingly or not, differences between the dancers and the pace of the music, an odd kind of unsettled feeling ensues

sometimes, the dancers are fine, the choreography is fine and the orchestra is fine -- but the pace of the conducting is not, a sad thing to happen

a cohesive whole can be so exhilarating

i'm not much of an abt fan, but i believe the music and conducting at their performances is generally better than good and very sensitive to the choreography and the dancers

[Alexandra]

These posts were made on the other board before the move:

By Michael:

(nysusan @ Jan 14 2005, 06:13 PM)

but her agadio seemed so rushed that I felt it really lacked lyricism & a sense of mystery. It seemed overly athletic, glossing over the artistic elements. In the back of my mind I was wondering how much was due to her sensibilities & how much due to the conducting.

Very much due to Sylve's sensibilities and self, I'd say. Sylve is a wonderful Ballerina but lyricism or strong perfume (mystery) in a piece like this is not really her thing as I perceive it. She's pretty much a "What you see is what you get," Dancer but -- Oh What You See! So physically imposing and masterful. Amazonian even. Those thighs -- I think you could fit the whole of Megan Fairchild into one of them.

As for the pace of the Adagio -- That adagio has always flowed fast at City Ballet, NYCB does it much faster than ABT, it's one of the big differences between the two versions as they've evolved (Hugo Fiorato usually saw to that pace when he conducted Theme). Particularly if you were used to the ABT version, this would appear much too fast.

One more thought about Quinn -- She conducts Stravinsky very well and handles the mixed counts and interlaced tempi there better than anyone else at the moment. And that's quite important for the NYCB repertory.

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Posted by Dale:

Michael, I'd agree about Sylve -- she's not as smooth or melting as other NYCB now or in the past doing the same roles (I agree on her good qualities too). However, she was smooth and melting (as much as she is going to be) in Cortege Hongrois. Well, first - that was not a debut - she did the role in Saratoga and maybe that had something to do with the abruptness of the phrasing in T&V but second - Quinn did not conduct Cortege Hongrois.

There is a wonderful part in the pas de deux section when, after the woman's pirouette into a lift, the couple dances to some pastoral music side by side. There's supposed to be a hesitation and then the delight at the change in mood. But with Quinn it was just full speed ahead. She crushed several such moments. There was no pause, there was no feeling that something special is happening and I didn't feel it was the dacners' fault. It came from the pit.

----------------------------------

Posted by Lampwick:

I noticed the fast pace of the music on Wednesday night as well. The corps, too, were *barely* keeping up in T+V and I was distracted by this. It was too fast for anyone to do, even NYCB.

[nysusan]

By Michael:

(nysusan @ Jan 14 2005, 06:13 PM)

but her agadio seemed so rushed that I felt it really lacked lyricism & a sense of mystery. It seemed overly athletic, glossing over the artistic elements. In the back of my mind I was wondering how much was due to her sensibilities & how much due to the conducting.

As for the pace of the Adagio -- That adagio has always flowed fast at City Ballet, NYCB does it much faster than ABT, it's one of the big differences between the two versions as they've evolved (Hugo Fiorato usually saw to that pace when he conducted Theme). Particularly if you were used to the ABT version, this would appear much too fast.

One more thought about Quinn -- She conducts Stravinsky very well and handles the mixed counts and interlaced tempi there better than anyone else at the moment. And that's quite important for the NYCB repertory.

-----------------------------------------------

Michael -Good point about being used to the ABT version. I am used to the ABT version but I’ve also worn out my tape of Kistler & Zelensky in the excerpt from the Balanchine Celebration. Quinn was really off to the races on Wed night. Even though I thought she barreled through the adagio there was so much I liked about Sylve that I decided to go again when someone else was conducting. Kaplow was conducting tonight - I just got back and I have to say that it was like day & night. It was as if I was watching (and listening to) a completely different piece. All the headlong passion was there, but so was all the shading and nuance. Sylve was superb in the adagio as well as everywhere else. The corps and the soloists in T&V didn’t look like they were tripping over themselves to keep up with the music. What a difference a conductor can make. I agree that Quinn does a good job with Stravinsky, but I was very disappointed in her treatment of Tchaikovsky

Susan

[Helene]

My immediate reaction was the same as Dale's. I think Quinn has conducted every performance but two that I've seen visiting from Seattle, and while she might take the "correct" tempo from a concert standpoint, having a parallel orchestral performance to the dance does not create a good evening. Having heard Asher Fisch conduct Wagner, whose orchestrations make his music very difficulty to sing, in Parsifal, Lohengrin, and The Ring, what is common to all of Fisch's performances is that the orchestra supports the singers' breath and line. I believe that it is a dance conductor's role to do the equivalent for the dancers. That doesn't necessarily mean slowing down the pace -- although sometimes it does, if there's a visible struggle onstage -- but it does mean being aware and present. Andrew Mogrelia does this brilliantly at San Francisco Ballet: the scores sound great and unadulterated, the orchestra plays with a sheen, and I haven't seen a performance of his where the dancers were hung out to dry.

I also agree with Michael. Since Robert Irving and Hugo Fiorato, just about every other conductor has suffered from what looks from the audience like indecision -- you lead, no I'll lead, no you first -- and rather sluggish, lackluster performances.

I always found it rather odd that with a surfeit of conductors graduating from conservatories and apprenticeship programs, that the NYCB orchestra has never seemed to have "conductors in training" to apprentice with the masters. Even if dance is considered the lowest form of conducting, it's not like there's a surplus of orchestras for young maestros, and NYCB is one of the plum assignments as dance companies go: except for Nutcracker, there's a constantly changing repertoire and the opportunity to play the best and most challenging music for dance.

[carbro]

I'm not as musically sophisticated as a lot of you guys, but to me the Quinn years will be notable as a period when the orchestra just plain sounded better, and that sound enhanced the experience of being in the theater. The colors were vivid and distinct. Is she fast? Oh, sure! We always hope for ideal tempi, but my bias tilts toward a bit too fast over a bit too slow :sleeping: . (Then there's the question of how much is "a bit"?) I hope that the good things that happened to the orchestra under her baton do not disappear with said baton.

I've also enjoyed watching the man escort her out for her call.

--Carley

[rchamp]

Re Conductors in training, this is a concern worldwide , as conducting for ballet is not generally taught at the conservatories . NYCB has attempted to address this problem by employing two young conductors as artists in residence - Carolyn Kuan & Daniel Alfred Wachs . They are in their 2nd year with the Company. They are listed in Stage Bill.

[oberon]

I never saw ABT's SYMPHONY IN C but friends who go to both companies complained that ABT's was so slow it was almost like a different ballet.

Kaplow's tempo for T & V last night was just about right...I did notice that Sylve seems to start each phrase just a fraction of a second before the music...this gives her dancing an added breadth, to my eyes at least.

Do the principals and conductor discuss tempi? One season when one of the ballerinas was having a bad foot I thought the conductors were wonderfully accomodating in giving her faster tempi so she didn't have to sustain certain passages. Likewise, some of the senior ballerinas seem to like a more languid, comfy tempo so they can get all the steps in without looking frantic.

In general I would rather see the dancers pushed slightly than to have a sluggish feeling.

When they were questing about for new conductors a few seasons back, I recall that Kristian Jarvi led a few performances and that he made an especially vivid impression...the Jarvi family have music in their blood and if he is available, I would like to see him on the podium again and, possibly, succeed Quinn.

I think the musicians really like Andrea Quinn, and I have loved having a lady in the pit.

[bart]

Whatever one says about the qualitiy of NYCB Orchestra conducting -- and the comments have been quite interesting -- all of it sounds like heaven compared to the abysmal sound quality and, of course, unyielding tempi of recorded music.

Last season the Miami City Ballet was given the funds to do several performances with a live orchestra. What a difference. This was a pick-up orchestra of primarily young performers, but the quality of sound was universes away from the always-wretched sound equipment at our rather grand opera house. Very exciting.

A few years ago, even our smaller local company Ballet Florida managed to do all its Nutcrackers with the excellent Palm Beach Opera Orchestra. But no more.

Two years ago a travelling Swan Lake, performed by a group of Russians, struggled through Acts I and II with a tape that actually broke the musican line into unconnected tracks, so lines like the Act II violin theme (de-DUH, de-DUH, de-duh-D-U-H) had each of its components starting and ending at different times. Try dancing to that. Just sitting there was extremely painful -- and that was nothing compared to what the dancers felt. (Very untraditional looks on the faces of Odette and the Prince. Get me a sledgehammer, Siegfried.)

Incidentally, the NYCB Orchestra has always been critiized, even back of what is now -- apparantely -- considered the glory days of Robert Irving and the (then) much maligned Hugo Fiorato, his assistant.

[Anthony_NYC]

I'm truly sorry Quinn's leaving. Before she arrived, the orchestra was just atrocious, sometimes so bad that I wondered how the dancers could recognize their cues. Nowadays, not only the playing much better, but they even play with some style (well, sometimes they do). I've seen T&V countless times at NYCB, and the performance I saw earlier this week conducted by Quinn seemed entirely within the company's tradition with regard to tempo--and it was much, much better played than it used to be. In fact, in the final polonaise her tempo was notably less fast, more controlled and detailed, than Kaplow's--and more exciting as a result. (Kaplow is the real speed demon at NYCB, especially in T&V.) I didn't notice any unusual scrambling among the dancers, and the only thing the wonderful Sylve had trouble with was what most ballerinas have trouble with, the gargouillades.

[paulofnyc]

I believe that Andrea Quinn has improved the sound of the NYCB orchestra. The new contract helped with rehersals but she also changed a principle or two. I also like to believe that it was her idea to have spots lights shine on the orchestra when they take their bow at the end of the final intermission. Recognition is good. Remember Mr. B. felt the dance AND the music is important.

[Michael]

On balance I'm a Quinn fan too. The orchestra is indeed much improved and the mood and atmosphere along with the sound.

Re keeping up. I sat next to an orchestra member last year when they were auditioning someone. We chatted and I noted how fast Quinn's tempos were. That Midsummer Night's Dream under her baton was a full ten minutes faster than when conducted by somone else.

"The dancers have a hard time keeping up," I said.

The player, a veteran, responded: "In Balanchine's day they kept up."

[paulofnyc]

On balance I'm a Quinn fan too.  The orchestra is indeed much improved and the mood and atmosphere along with the sound.

Re keeping up. I sat next to an orchestra member last year when they were auditioning someone. We chatted and  I noted how fast Quinn's tempos were.  That Midsummer Night's Dream under her baton was a full ten minutes faster  than when conducted by somone else. 

"The dancers have a hard time keeping up,"  I said.

The player, a veteran, responded:  "In Balanchine's day they kept up."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Can some of "Balanchine's day" be brought back?

[carbro]

Actually, Paul, compared to how the company was dancing two, three years go, it has. I think they're looking very good these days. Maybe the energy now isn't what it was with Balanchine, but we no longer see 12 different girls doing 12 different things at 12 different times.

Sometimes I kind of miss that, I must admit.

[paulofnyc]

Actually, Paul, compared to how the company was dancing two, three years go, it has.  I think they're looking very good these days.  Maybe the energy now isn't what it was with Balanchine, but we no longer see 12 different girls doing 12 different things at 12 different times.

Sometimes I kind of miss that, I must admit.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree I think NYCB is looking great.

Now if we could bring in younger people to enjoy them all would be well.

[oberon]

I think NYCB draws a very respectable number of young people...not just kids who have been brought to the ballet by their parents, but twenty-somethings and thirty-somethings. And there is usually a contingent of dance students, both from SAB and other schools ...I've sat among them and they are spellbound during the dancing and discuss things passionately between ballets. Unlike the opera, where you hardly ever see anyone under 50, or the Symphony where (it sometimes seems) you never see anyone under 80, I think ballet somehow builds its own audiences...maybe not like during the boom years, but surely enough to sustain itself.