CygneDanois

I saw it Saturday. Thoroughly enjoyed pretty much all of it, esp. Michele who is always delightful. Will write more later as I am exhausted and have a ballet exam in a few days. ------------------ CygneDanois

Funny, I thought the Balanchine style was the best in the world until I learned more about it. But it's okay to see things differently . At any rate, I agree with you there... ...and there... ...and there. And I'll agree with you there, too . About frappé, we'd probably better continue that one somewhere else. I guess that Kirov experience would tend to make one rather prejudiced against it. I understand. And yes, I do think that describing the dancers of an entire style of ballet as "constipated" or "dazed" would be offensive under any circumstances. ------------------ CygneDanois [This message has been edited by CygneDanois (edited March 30, 2001).]

Sorry, but isn't that rather offensive to anyone who does not dance the Balanchine style? When I started watching the Kirov, it was heavenly--they were all so calm, beautiful, and restrained. No twitching, every movement perfectly controlled. And I never minded seeing a preparation, because the preparations in themselves were beautiful, and by watching them, I was able to anticipate the perfect pirouette or gravity-defying jump to follow, and really see it, instead of some random flashy thing that dazzled for a moment, but never really left an impression. I can say with certainty that I would always rather see one slow, perfectly clear battement tendu than twelve or sixteen blurs (however long the pointed foot is held out there) done in the same amount of time. And by the way, the Kirov can move pretty fast when it wants to. Not to mention Paris Opéra, Royal Danish, Royal Ballet, all of whom are well-known for having quick, immaculate footwork. ------------------ CygneDanois [This message has been edited by CygneDanois (edited March 29, 2001).]

I find this discussion fascinating . I have often heard people say that there is no national character in ballet because people everywhere are so different (this fits in with employ, too, I think). However, I do think that there is such a thing as "national temperament," although there are always certain to be exceptions. On the other hand, though, Americans are so mixed ethnically that I'm not sure it makes sense to try to come up with a definition of "American" dancing. In fact, isn't that the whole point of the US--that it's a blend of many different people and cultures? I'm not sure that the US will ever accept the Balanchine style as the "American" way of dancing, not only because of some of its questionable aspects and possible distortions, but also because of the proliferation of ballet schools here that are not Balanchine-style. They are producing dancers who may very well want to dance some Balanchine ballets, but who do not want to be limited to them and the "Balanchinized" versions of the classics so often seen here. And no one I know wants to be stereotyped as an "American Quantity, Not Quality" dancer. (Well...no one I know anymore....) ------------------ CygneDanois

According to the new ABT website, Ferri has danced not only Nikiya, but Princess Florina from The Sleeping Beauty while dancing with ABT. I don't suppose anyone saw it...? ------------------ CygneDanois

Ralphsf, did you not think that Zahorian was "Russian" enough for The Sleeping Beauty? She was trained at the Kirov Academy. From early videos I've seen of her, she appears to have been very "Russian" when she was a student there. ------------------ CygneDanois

I think Guillem is officially with the Royal Ballet. ------------------ CygneDanois

Whoops! Sorry about that. Actually, I have both the Sizova/Soloviev and Asylmuratova/Zaklinsky videos, so I should have figured that one out . Yes, I guess Zaklinsky is "rather younger than Sizova"! I can be such an airhead sometimes . ------------------ CygneDanois

Thanks, Marc, for the ages. So, do younger Kirov dancers learn it faster, or is the entire production of The Sleeping Beauty just going to get slower and slower through the years ? Alexandra, your last sentence really helps, especially putting a dancer with each type, even if it is the 20th century American version. It may be another reason Ferri dances mostly romantic ballets--maybe she just has an amazingly strong sense of employ . Mme. Hermine, I've never heard of a film of Sizova other than the 60's "Beauty," but I might be able to ask her and find out about it. I thought Zaklinsky was rather younger than Sizova, but maybe not. ------------------ CygneDanois

Marc, that definitely makes sense about looking at the dancers as they progress. It's a good point. One question: Did Asylmuratova and Kolpakova dance Aurora when they were younger? Or did they only dance it once they had "slowed down"? I don't think I feel quite the same way about the Sizova video--while I agree that the allegro sections are faster than usually done today by Russians (or anyone, for that matter) I have seen, I don't think the adagios are. Sizova, from what I know of her, seems as though she would have been quite the adagio dancer (although of course I have absolutely no way of knowing that for certain--I believe Mel may have seen her in her prime...perhaps he would know). And you are of course right--faster music won't change a dancer's temperament . Also, I really need to see Lezhnina live! Andrei, thank you for the explanations. I am learning so much on this thread from everyone, and you really do say a great deal (for me--I know nothing about this topic besides my own few impressions) in just a few sentences. ------------------ CygneDanois

Thank you both, Michael and Drew. You clarified several things for me. Michael, it definitely makes sense that semicaractere classique is just more broadly defined because it is a hybrid. About Florina and Aurora, though, Alexandra wrote that while Makarova was a Florina, she was definitely not an Aurora. So possibly, the two roles indicate different "ends" of the semicaractere genre? By the way, that is a very wise judge. Drew, thank you very much for the description of Lezhnina and the comparison to Fugate. Having barely seen either dancer at all and only on video, it's difficult for me to tell much about what they would be like in person, and so I am grateful for any descriptions of live performances. I know what you mean about the textbook placement--I don't think I've ever seen a developpé above 135 degrees in a diagram, even though anything is possible in a drawing! I also agree about the gradual progression to more grandeur in Act III. In Act I, she's a princess, but a young one with high spirits; in the second act, she's not even really there because she is asleep (but she still manages to enter with coupé jeté en tournant) and in the third act, it is her "big day"--and she must (and does, willingly) fulfill all the expectations of the court for how a married princess should look and behave. The words "married princess" brought out something in my mind--the end of NYCB's The Sleeping Beauty, when the king and queen hand over their robes to Désiré and Aurora. Why??? Even though they're married, they still won't become king and queen until after Aurora's parents pass away--they're just the Prince Regent Désiré and his lovely wife, the Princess Aurora. Or was this done in the original? ------------------ CygneDanois [This message has been edited by CygneDanois (edited March 22, 2001).]

I don't think Fugate was still dancing by the time I got to NY. I've only seen her dance a variation from Who Cares? on the Balanchine Celebration tape. However, from your description, she sounds like she was the right type for Aurora, whatever it is. I agree that The Sleeping Beauty needs to be danced crisply. It is a very precise ballet. Michael, I agree with you that Aurora should be more classique than noble...now we just have to figure out what that is for a female dancer . Fugate to me sounds like a cross between noble and semicaractere classique--actually, she sounds similar to (I hope this makes sense) Larissa Lezhnina (keep in mind I've only seen them both a little bit on video) to me. If this similarity that I see is valid in real life, then it would help immensely if someone knows Lezhnina's "type." (Of course, they might be totally different in real life--I once made a "video comparison" between Lezhnina and Maurin that made no sense whatsoever.) ------------------ CygneDanois

When I said "more classical," was trying to ask if, for example, Aurora would be closer to noble than Florina--and I think you understood what I meant . I believe I see what you mean about geometry of line as well--you were speaking of physical proportions (legs:body ratio), and I was speaking of training (ie, the tendency to raise a leg at a different angle in relation to the body or hold it in a different manner)...but I think we understand each other there, as well. Your point about human/inhuman in Bournonville is interesting, but I'm not sure I understand completely--was a new type of dancer necessary in the Romantic era to portray human/inhuman conflicts because the nobles were usually human and the semicaractere classiques were usually not--and so someone was needed who could portray both? Or are Teresina and Hilda just nobles who, since they are naturally human, are meant to be out of place as supernatural creatures? I'm also very interested about what you wrote about female employ--do I understand that you're saying height wouldn't necessarily matter as much as proportion/sensibility?--because that is what you're saying, it makes perfect sense to me . And about sensibility...is that where such words as "dramatic," "lyrical," "adagio," and "allegro" might come in (ie, that one can be classically proportioned and still an allegro dancer or something)? One last thing--I just wanted to say that in my last post, when I wrote that I don't see Aurora's entrance in Act I as being "terribly quick," I did not mean to say I don't consider it allegro, which it obviously is. I think it's petit allegro, but maybe petit allegro that wants to be grand...? If that makes any sense. That is, it's fast, but it still has some large jumps in there, and it has to be done more in a grand manner than possibly the female equivalent of demicaractere steps would be done--they might, for example, be more intricate and complex, close to the ground, than a few large jetés interspersed with small ones...which actually leads me to an interesting thought--that both steps in the beginning of the entrance are jetés, just different kinds, juxtaposed (I can't believe I just said "juxtaposed"). Petipa made an extremely interesting, beautiful entrance that conveys the character right from the beginning, all out of "large jeté, small jeté, piqué attitude croisé devant and repeat"! Less is definitely more when dealing with choreography . ------------------ CygneDanois

Preface: Rather than placing an IMO in every other sentence, I'm just going to put it here. Please read this with the understanding that it's all "in my opinion." I think I agree with Alexandra on this one--noble dancers aren't necessarily always tragic, are they? Even so, I've never thought The Sleeping Beauty was a particularly upbeat, cheerful ballet. It's orderly and harmonious as you said, but also serious--Aurora and Désiré's wedding is very grand and gives me the sense that it is traditional and conventional. They don't really know each other that well before the wedding, if you consider that they really only meet at the end of Act II. Before that, Désiré is only seeing a vision of her produced by the Lilac Fairy. Aurora's parents seem perfectly happy to marry her off to the first prince who comes along, which would not have been unusual then. And although the entertainments at the wedding are fanciful, the actual marriage of Aurora and Désiré is really a rather grave affair, with the solemn procession and the minor-keyed apotheosis. Their pas de deux is severe, as well--formal and slow. Nothing is rushed. It's all very cool and serene. Same with the variations--Désiré's variation is very ordered, and although it does have that quick manege at the end, none of it is particularly upbeat, and it has to be done with an extremely noble bearing at all times. Aurora's variation is similar, the simple, demure, outwardly calm dance projecting the maturity of a young princess. The coda is more joyous, but still very formal, and not flashy at all. In fact, I don't even see Aurora's Act I entrance as really being terribly quick, with those high jetés from the very beginning. Of course, some dancers prefer to do small Italian pas de chats, which would certainly change the nature of the entrance. --- So, Alexandra, would Aurora be "more" classical than Florina? It seems to me that she would...although they are, of course, both princesses. And about danseuses nobles not dancing...is it improper for the Lilac Fairy to dance in the prologue (it isn't, after all, court dancing, I think)? What would she then do during the fairies' entrée, adagio, variations and coda? I think many the differences between Fonteyn and the Russian dancers can probably be accounted for by training--British dancers tend to be very square IMO, whereas Russian dancing is, for lack of a better word, curvy; that is, their arabesques and attitudes are not perfect right angles--they're more diagonal, curved. Same with other aspects as well. I'm not condoning the current "Kirov Kick," but the Russians do tend to raise their legs above 90 degrees in arabesque/attitude for an upwardly-curved line. A little more lyrical, and not as severe, although one could very well argue that Aurora is supposed to be severe and restrained, considering the nature of the ballet and her social position. ------------------ CygneDanois

This is something of a continuation of a topic raised on a different thread regarding Aurora and her formal classification--and a few other people in The Sleeping Beauty. Leigh wrote: I responded to this and something else that Alexandra wrote: Alexandra wrote: Since you listed the Lilac Fairy as noble, does this mean that Aurora isn't? Would she then be the female equivalent of semicaractere classique? Or is it just that you didn't happen to list her here this one time ?Disclaimer: The next paragraph is about adagio/allegro, and yes, I do realize that this is not the same thing as formal emploi. Leigh, why exactly don't you think that Aurora is adagio? She has some quick steps during the first act, but the rest of her choreography is generally adagio, I think. For an extreme example (and this may very well not be an equal comparison, considering the very different training of these dancers), I think of Miranda Weese and then Asylmuratova (though I have only seen her Aurora on video, and Marc may feel free to step in and correct me at any time here ) dancing the part. From what I have seen, Weese is very allegro, while Asylmuratova is adagio, but Asylmuratova still dances the allegro section(s) with speed and precision, while Weese, from my experience of her, does not seem to have the ability to perform the adagio sections with equal skill. Do you think that what you wrote about accounting "account for slow change over decades and dancer generations" applies in this case--that Aurora may have started out as one or the other and changed over the years? (Then again, to that end, we probably have some people here who know perfectly well what Brianza was like as a dancer--from reading, that is .) Leigh responded, in an email: It's an an interesting question - I think my answer will have somethig to do with the nature of the adagio (I know the Rose Adagio is slow, but I don't find it legato; perhaps it's because I've never seen a legato dancer do it. . .but then again, I have - Letestu at POB. It gets further complicated by the fact that the Rose Adagio was changed in emphasis because Fonteyn could balance like that and not be steely - but for every dancer who has come after (with the exception of Gregory, for whom the balances were a specialty) it's been a swamp thing. Right now, you cast an Aurora who can get through the ballet (the best adagio dancers at NYCB have floundered in it, but NYCB isn't the best company to talk about when dealing with Petipa.) I find the Act III adagio to be in sort of a "heroic" mold that can be done well by allegro dancers. I also think my perception of the role is colored by her first entrance. There are two essays on my site on the subject (that now I have to reread, too!) One on Weese debuting in Beauty from '97 and one on allegro and adagio ballerinas from '99. --- I haven't had time to come up with a real response to this yet, but while I'm pondering, everyone is free to add his/her thoughts . ------------------ CygneDanois

Alexandra, what about Bruch Violin concerto? It appears that you wrote a positive review of it (as a ballet) when ABT performed it a while ago. Ms. Leigh, I was not being serious . ------------------ CygneDanois

What's with her feet? They are flexible, with high arches. Here's a photo. ------------------ CygneDanois

Alexandra wrote: I hope NYCB heard that as well .I await your classifications--I want to find out what type of dancer I am (though I have a feeling that from the descriptions above, it's semicaractere classique). ------------------ CygneDanois [This message has been edited by CygneDanois (edited March 15, 2001).]

It was quite an experience to watch her dance in class. I also remember watching her perform a very long series of rond de jambe en l'air saute sur la pointe on a diagonal across the room, finishing with a developpe a la seconde without coming off pointe. No way can you be completely weak technically to do that. I admit that when her pirouettes are off, they are frightening, as hyperextended legs and feet do not make for a sturdy base on which to turn. When she is "on," though, her turns are breathtaking--she just floats around. In addition, I have to say that when she isn't turning, she seems to have fairly consistent good balance. From what I've seen, she's strong in adagio, able to hold positions well without wobbling, etc. It's when she has to move quickly--she would not, IMO, be good at Balanchine--that she has problems. She also seems to have a hard time jumping, which adds to the effect of technical weakness. I would agree with Alexandra that Ferri is a dramatic dancer. And she really does work hard. She's very scrupulous, technically. She has to contend, however, with an extremely flexible body that, while it allows her to take her time getting to a position and holding it, has problems pulling itself all together for allegro work. For example, she's fantastic in the Act II adagio of Giselle, but has trouble with the petite batterie in the coda. ------------------ CygneDanois

As far as ABT and NYCB are concerned, Nutcracker (just ABT) and Swan Lake (NYCB)were choreographed after 1990 . ------------------ CygneDanois

Do any other companies perform Western Symphony with the Scherzo? ------------------ CygneDanois

Cargill, I have also wondered what the stories behind Moyna and Zulma are. Maybe they're related to Myrtha. ------------------ CygneDanois

Cargill, I have also wondered what the stories behind Moyna and Zulma are. Maybe they're related to Myrtha. ------------------ CygneDanois

Taglioni and Karsavina. I also would like to have seen Lucille Grahn from the Royal Danish way back when. I've also heard good things about Irina Kolnikova (no, not Kolpakova). As far as I know, she isn't captured on videotape, and I doubt if she danced much into the '80s. Hope I'm not being intimidating . ------------------ CygneDanois

Alexandra, that may be quite simply the most frightening thing I have heard in years. Note to all ADs who may be reading the board: Do not, repeat, DO NOT look at this thread as inspiration . ------------------ CygneDanois