Helene

Okay, so posts which accuse other posters of being specious and silly are fine as long as the poster has a view in accordance with the prevalent argument that smoking outside is a subversive act of malice and an attack on civil liberties? Ugh, no. Posts that describe other arguments as specious or silly are watched carefully. Posts that purport to tell people what their problems are deleted, if we find them, or if, before we find them, the original poster has responded with a much better reply than we can.

Since this was brought up as part of the discussion, I'd be interested to see the disputed science.

[Admin Beanie On] I'm not even going to try to salvage what is useful from any post that begins with "Your problem is...". [Admin Beanie Off]

Smoking bans on planes was driven by the flight attendants' union.

I know what you meant -- clarity is not an issue -- but I disagree. I know plenty of decisions that are coming, for example a $150K drop in the acquisition budget of the Seattle Public Library, but notice does not make them any better. When smoking was banned from the indoors based on health concerns, it was not a given that the problem would be transferred to the streets which escalated the amount of smoking on the streets, especially in groups. The other option, being considered and legislated now, is a smoking ban in public spaces, confining smoking to private, indoor, non-commercial spaces.

Cigar boxes were made of real, if light, wood back in the day. I remember going to the Rheinbeck Aerodrome with my father and noticing that the old open planes were repaired with parts of old cigar boxes: you could see the logos and decorations.

Regarding role models, I was reading a "New Yorker" book review from April in which Tim Parks wrote about Italian politics,

To me a transfer is moving the problem from a person or group's shoulders to another's. A trade-off is when a person or group deliberately agrees to forgo A to get B.

You do -- they are fantastic films. One of my all-time favorite scenes is from the film featuring Monique Lourdieres, where Vladimir Vasiliev coaches her in "Giselle" in patent leather shoes. There's also lovely footage of Vasiliev and Maximova in the film about the two of them. Thank you for posting the clip!

Not sure what to tell you. I believe people have walked past such clubs and lived to tell the tale. And of course the smokers are out on the sidewalks because that's where they have to go now. If you don't want them inside presumably that's the tradeoff. I view it not as a trade-off, but a transfer of the problem from the people who frequent the clubs and restaurants to the people on the street. The city has moved the bus route from Friday-Sunday after 9pm to a residential street one block west to keep drunken club patrons from walking in front of the buses, thus transferring the problem from the commercial block to the residential block, where apartment dwellers have to keep their windows shut or suffer not only cigarette smoke, but loud conversations among people waiting for the bus.

Is this from one of the Delouche films?

This is also discussing the discussion. Stop it. If there's a policy violation, hit the report button, and the Moderators will take a look. If not, then skip the thread. The people who are done with this will, and the people are not done with this will continue to discuss.

I don't know if the idea of role model was for all the young or for dance students, young dancers, and possibly ballet lovers. I assumed the latter, given the lack of recognition of most ballet dancers apart from Nureyev and Baryshnikov.

As an FYI, I just checked the PVR and found an episode of "So You Think You Can Dance" , and Debbie Reynolds was the guest judge. She looked fantastic in a lilac jacket and pants. When the host said that it was wonderful to have her, she replied, "It's wonderful to be alive"

This post pretty much defines "discussing the discussion". Stop it. Take it to PM.

In 2001, in response to some questions in other threads, Alexandra posted a note from George Jackson about Fridirica Derra de Moroda in this thread: We just received an inquiry from a new member, who writes: If anyone has any leads, please feel free to post them here, or, if you'd prefer to contact this poster directly, since she doesn't have PM privileges, please PM me or email through our "Contact Us" link, and I'll pass it on. It's a fascinating subject, and it would be great if we could get more information on it.

Why would dancers, who generally start smoking as professional division dancer or school dancers, be any less impressionable than any other teenagers? I would say they would be more impressionable, because they, as teenagers, are often in boarding situations and a step away from being a professional, unlike most people their age, and their professional idols -- principals and etoiles -- are right there if they are at a school that's affiliated with a company. Performing children's roles, they share the stage with their idols.

I know that is not what was meant up-thread about "good" role models, but not everyone has the same definition, especially aspiring dancers. Given the discipline needed to be a professional dancer, how dancers are called "boys" and "girls", how they are pushed around by choreographers and artistic directors, etc., some breaking the mold, appearing glamorous or adult (at least in their own eyes), could be considered positive, either because they are looked at as rule-breakers or as exhibiting normal, adult behavior, and there aren't a lot of options when you get up early every morning to take company class. I wish someone would eat a pizza instead and break the food taboo instead of lighting up a cigarette -- although PNB's very slender Maria Chapman said in a Q&A that she needs to eat 3-5K calories a day to maintain weight at the height of the season -- but you don't always get what you want. A friend whose daughter is on the brink of deciding how seriously she will pursue dance and in whom a major US company has shown interest told me which company dancer he wanted as a role model for his daughter, and the first thing he said was, "She doesn't smoke." Hopefully his daughter feels the same way. ETA: Dupont might be considered a great role model at POB, where dancers, particularly the females, are held to an extremely thin standard overall. At the end of the Wiseman's "La Danse", Brigitte Lefevre meets a young corps dancer in her office. That dancer is, to my eyes, frightfully thin, even if she is one of the few who doesn't gain camera weight and that is her actual size. Lefevre approves when the dancer talks about how she has lost weight. I can't imagine Lefevre having a problem with a weight control habit.

Role models cut both ways. There are people who are attracted to "bad boys", to power, to being able to get away with criminal behavior, and all sorts of things.

People still have plenty of opportunities to learn what personal responsibility and courtesy are, especially in public places. Just consider noise levels -- speaking on cell phones, keeping voices down at 2am walking down the street instead of having conversations at normal volume -- not making noise during performances at the theater, not dropping someone else's laundry on the floor at the laundromat, not dousing oneself in cologne/perfume and going to the theater. Given the number of threads about bad theater behavior, which were there long before smoking regulations and accusations of a "nanny state", I would give very low marks to self-regulation. As far as rules and policies are concerned, I'll use Ballet Alert! as an example. When it was first created, there was no need for an "official news" or courtesy policy, because the original members needed neither. As the board expanded, the choices were to set policies and enforce them, or to have the board devolve into a place where intelligent and informed discussion was drowned out by gossip and ad hominem attacks. This is a private board, and we aren't subject to the same legal constraints as public policy, but when there is a critical mass of discourteous and/or dangerous, disruptive behavior, I see nothing wrong in focused, protective regulation. As someone whose grandparents owned a liquor store and who spent weekends of her childhood perched on stacks of cartons of whiskey, I don't share this one, but I try to be extra-vigilant about not crossing against lights, even if there is no traffic for miles, or stepping off the sidewalk to wait for the light to change, when there are children standing at the same corner. (As a former New Yorker, this takes a lot of self-discipline.) That's my personal quirk.

On the grounds that they are citizens who have a right to enjoy open public spaces just as others do as long as they observe certain rules. If you object to being downwind of the fellow, is moving such a titanic effort? It is when you are, for example, waiting in a queue, like at a bus stop, or you've established your picnic spot in what was a smoke-free vicinity and are enjoying the day, only to have a smoker move right next to you, or are walking down Granville street to the bus stop, where smokers pack the sidewalks outside the clubs and you have no choice but to walk along that street. I am glad that those certain rules more and more include a smoking prohibition in more and more public spaces, including the outdoors.

Peter Falk just died. Richard Corliss wrote in "Time Magazine": Rest in peace, Mr. Falk.

This company is well worth seeing and making part of a European trip itinerary.

That may be true, but I've seen a number of pieces that AD's, house choreographers, and dancers have choreographed for their own companies that have never made it to another stage, which is a real shame, because I've looked at them and thought, "That would be perfect for Ballet Arizona. That would be great for PNB dancers. That would be a great addition for Oregon Ballet Theatre. Any number of Professional Division students would look superb in that piece, and it would challenge them." I was thrilled to see that Kansas City Ballet did Ib Andersen's version of "Romeo and Juliet", because it is beautifully constructed. But that's a rarity. I often wonder if there's some unspoken "no poach" policy at work. And the SFB cast I saw in "The Waltz Project" looked wonderful in it.