kaskait

I've been watching and translating some of the Russian comments on her youtube videos and sometimes on her website. So far all of them have been very congratulatory. I'm not a Russian Dance worshipper, I've seen some sloppy dancing when the Mariinsky was in NY last winter. They favor extremely thin, wraith like dancers that I don't find attractive. Which is why I find it so interesting that Womack has the makings of a good career in Russia. She is a big, strapping American. The kind that Balanchine favored, definitely not the type that Russian ballet prefers now.

She is being consistently cast into leading roles. I think the biggest so far is Myrtha in Giselle. But the company website still lists her as a leading soloist. Which leads me to believe that any promotion to Principle will come from this group. Besides the examples that Womack puts on her website and occasionally the Kremlin Ballet, I haven't seen enough of her dancing to make a true opinion. But what I have seen shows that she is a very conscientious dancer. I would love to get a hold of reviews of her performances. The Russian balletomanes are so choosy, I wonder what impression she makes on them. Its obvious from the look of her, that she is very American...is that affecting her career? Or do the audiences in Russia find that exotic?

True But Kirkland's point was that neither Martins nor Baryshnikov engaged in relationships or sex with her in a positive light or good faith. One used her to get away from another woman and the other treated her like a blow up doll. Did we need to know that particulars? Probably not, but it was her catharsis not ours. And one of the reasons she ran from NYCB was Martins and her bitter disappointment over Baryshnikov was a big factor in her drug use. Nothing happens in a vacuum.

@dirac To be fair to Kirkland in her account of the Baryshnikov fracas, she was a young girl (about 23) when he swooped her up as a dance partner. Tharp was much older and an established choreographer when she had her relationship with him. Kirkland was star struck and immature. I have no doubt that Baryshnikov took advantage of her because she was an easy mark and besides being Balanchine's little girl did not have as big a career as he did when they started in their dance partnership. She made him pay for it all though... But she'll never be able to live down the book. I think she is still the bad girl complete with a vision of her snarling, dressed in a motorcycle jacket and riding her chopper through ABT dance studios.

Considering how proud they are that everyone is a relative of a relative and this has been so for many years...maybe they should just call themselves Hillbilly Hollow.

How do you know that NYCB passed on her? According to her bio on ABT she graduated from SAB and went straight to ABT in 2008. Perhaps she wanted to be a classical dancer over a neo-classical. There are many reasons why she is not at NYCB that don't include being denied a place. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/01/arts/dance/01corps.html This news story states that the year Lavine joined ABT as apprentice only two other dancers were included with her. This is a big accomplishment, maybe even more so considering how ABT casts its dancers nowadays.

@canbelto I'm starting to rethink #3 on your list. One thing we have to keep in mind was that Kirkland was suffering long before her drug addiction. It had to have been some kind of personality disorder, depression or any other number of things. The fact was, I think people did go out of their way to nurture her and she either shut them out or didn't believe their encouragement. By her own account, Balanchine seemed to have gone out of his way to complement her. But through her tortured eyes, she saw him as trying to set the other dancers at SAB and then NYCB against her. Or even worse, she thought he was mocking her. There are only so many times you can praise someone, who then sulks as though you gave them the blackest of curses, before you throw up your hands and say uncle. What could have Balanchine and the rest have done to get Kirkland to believe their admiration? Flowers, cards, balloons, acrobats, 3 ring circus, her favorite ballet staged with her favorite dancers plus signs saying "You're GREAT!" Even all that wouldn't have swayed her. It's sad, she had so many wonderful experiences and she wasn't able to enjoy them.

So says the woman who embodied Classical line to perfection. And take a look at the DTH dancers now, all of them adhere to more classical standards. I don't see bulging thigh muscles on the females, not the way that Copeland has on her form. https://youtu.be/SowsGudOyc4 The best part of this "problem" is that it can be fixed almost immediately. The only action Copeland needs to do is work on stretching out her muscles with pilates and various other exercises that compliment ballet. Male dancers do it all the time to stop over developed muscles. But she won't do it because she doesn't want to do it. She wants to force the form to accept muscle women. Or at the very least HER muscle woman form. I find that extremely selfish.

Another interesting corroboration of Kirkland's autobiography. She always stood by the fact that she thought Balanchine deliberately tried to take Baryshnikov down a few notches. It seemed an outrageous allegation so many years ago. But in this recent interview of Patricia Neary (2011), Neary states that Balanchine got very angry at good press Baryshnikov received while dancing with NYCB. https://youtu.be/sczJRVQOU-8 Kirkland was probably right in her assessment.

That is an interesting comment from Baryshnikov and it does fit in with Kirkland's accounts. She stated that he made a comment to her that he had mother issues. And we sure as heck know that Kirkland had father issues. So by those facts alone, they were bound to clash. She also stated that he had a failed love affair with Makarova and it seemed to Kirkland that he purposely tried to set them against one another. I have sympathy for Baryshnikov at this time. He ran away from his country, he had a huge paparazzi following and was hailed as the greatest dancer of the generation, even 20th century. He was the most famous dancer of the moment. All that attention had to have been nerve-wracking. So I could see how Kirkland's devotion, neediness and ascetic habits to the art would be intimidating and scary to Baryshnikov. He is the type of artist who doesn't need to think so much on process. Not in the way she loved to think about it. So her questions and rehearsal habits kind of made him experience a WTF reaction. And I have no doubt that he was deeply in love with her just as much as she was with him. But they were two very messed up people with a lot of pressure. I don't think it would have ever worked out happily. One of the most affecting part of her book, Kirkland mentioned that long after the affair was over she saw that Baryshnikov had kept all the gifts she had given him from the past years they danced together. It made her cry.

@dirac We have to be fair to both ballerinas in regards to Balanchine. When everything went down, Farrell was a teenager and just 24 when she left NYCB. It wasn't fair that Balanchine pushed himself on such a young girl. I know there have been accounts from other dancers that Farrell played Balanchine but, I mean really, she was just a child. She had a right to be in love with a man closer to her own age. It wasn't right that Balanchine took out his anger on her husband. This was the reason why he "fired" her. She complained about this treatment and mentioned that she would leave and he said fine or something to that effect. Then he proceeded to work out his anger and heartbreak on various other ballerinas including another teenager, namely Kirkland. I think Kirkland's main problem with Firebird was that Balanchine and Stravinsky wanted to really be true to the concept as it was originally planned. Hence the slavish reproductions of Chagall's designs. It was all about the concept with the dancers being just decorative pieces to add scale. I could see why Kirkland would be unhappy considering the type of dancer she aspired to be. I love Stravinsky's score to Firebird, but I have to admit...it isn't something that lends itself to dance all that well.

@kfw Yes, definitely he was trying to make the ballet about his choreography not Kirkland's talent. But again, I think Balanchine realized that his choreography had a lot to do with being obsessed by certain talented women. This obsession turned them into ballet superstars. It was this sudden insight, due to Farrell running away, that changed his relations to dancers that came after her. Kirkland was the bullseye in this emotional aftermath...I think Balanchine did take some of his anger out on her. If anyone after Farrell could have been a muse, it would have been Kirkland. Balanchine realized that and purposely nipped it in the bud. Kirkland being talent and emotionally exposed read his intentions all wrong. She thought he disliked her when really he was fighting the demons in himself.

There are limits to bulky muscles in ballet because it breaks the line, the geometric shapes the human body makes in this particular art form. Even men in the art form work hard to ensure that they do not develop a Schwarzenegger physique. It not only breaks the line, it inhibits movement. You can see the problem in Copeland's form, her stiff upper body, the over powered pushes to get her body moving and at times ungainly balances. This is all due to the over muscled look that she favors and wishes to force the art form to accept. The very reason it is not accepted shows in her dancing. There isn't only a problem of over built muscles, she also has a severe hyperextension in the knee that is frightening to behold. If she doesn't try to correct this problem, it will eventually destroy her career, such that it is. But I don't blame her for the hyper extension fetish, this is a current problem in the ballet world. I see it in many dancers now. It isn't something that should be accepted. Indeed, until recently dancers who showed this deformity were told to leave ballet for health reasons.

This is an old thread. I recently reread Kirkland's book and despite all the controversy, I was struck how painfully honest it was. Although, I think Kirkland had at times wrong assumptions or misinterpreted the behavior of her colleagues, I don't think she was lying just for the sake of making herself a more tragic figure. The three big relationships which she herself drew inferences were her father, Balanchine and Baryshnikov. She is pretty upfront that she wanted Balanchine to be a father figure and it seems he even tried to be one. Although I don't think she took into account that he was hurting terribly over the Farrell scandal. Which probably made extending interest toward Kirkland and other ballerinas a very bittersweet prospect. The fact that he turned Firebird into such a cold, inhuman presence was a result of the Farrell heartbreak. And poor teenage Kirkland had to deal with the blowback of this affair. I think even D'Amboise, in his book, mentioned something to the effect that it wasn't all in Kirkland's head. I think one of her problems with Baryshnikov was that he was a very competitive dancer even with his female partners. Kirkland wanted a meeting of artistic minds and he just wasn't that kind of dancer. I think the, ultimately, the ballet world inhibited her. She should have tried a bit of acting. I think, although she despised it, that "The Turning Pointe" would have been a fantastic opportunity for her. She would have been so good on screen with that graceful, little form and that big brassy voice. I'm glad she recovered and is in the process of passing on her insights to new dancers.

This thread is about Copeland not her fellow ABT dancers. But I agree, Boyleston is an awful, ungraceful dancer with short arms and ugly broken wrist port de bras. Why she was promoted is beyond my understanding. Seo is very pretty but rather flaccid in her style. Some say lazy or not enough strength. I've seen her dance in Nutcracker, there is just nothing about her that is pushing her own abilities. It is just safe, unexciting dancing. But if you want an equivalent, then what if Hee Seo suddenly started jumping on the bandwagon stating that she faced racism because she is Asian. She could do it. She is a minority. It isn't only Misty or black dancers that face body standards in ballet. But we hear nothing about other sports or arts where people complain that they can't reach the standard. People who don't have it, leave that particular field. It is just the way it is...but Copeland insists that we accept her body builder muscle shape just because of her woes.

Misty is an anomaly, body form wise. She is pushing this, and indeed purposely pumped herself up, to be different. All other black ballet dancers I've seen presently, adhere to the art form ideal of long smooth musculature. Over pumped muscles lead to stiffness in the upper body. You can see it in her almost non-existent epaulement which she tries to hide with over punchy, bravura leg battements and jumps. What looks good in a Prince video does not look good on the ballet stage. Mearns is another example of a body that isn't the norm in ballet. But she has beautiful epaulement and she has not pumped up her muscles either. She is also a better all around dancer with a keen sense of drama. The only drama Copeland generates is her own whinging to the press.

It became a politically correct issue when Copeland herself put her story out there that she was laboring under racism. You can pull up numerous youtube interviews of Copeland talking about "White" ballet. So obviously SHE thinks that ballet is only for white people and that there is some nefarious conspiracy to keep her out of performances. Lavine is just a better all around dancer. She has true classical technique that Copeland sorely lacks. She has a graceful appearance that anyone, if they are honest, knows that Copeland doesn't have. Copeland has a modern physique that would suit any number of modern ballet companies, modern dance companies. Heck I could even see her as an actress. She isn't a classical ballet dancer. But she will prevail because she has this huge juggernaut, PR wave that she created for herself. I don't like Copeland because I don't think she has the talent that matches the abilities of ABT female principles in the past nor current dancers in other companies from NYCB, SFB etc. and even European companies. She is all hat and no cattle. Again subjectivity died with Copeland when she put herself out there stating that the whole ballet world is against her due to racism. ABT is in such a position now that if they do not promote her this year, they will be excoriated by Copeland's PR team creating a scandal du jour.

I do watch quick clips of dancers before I purchase tickets to their performances. From what I've seen of Copeland I would never spend any amount of money to watch her dance in a lead. I don't think she is on that level artistically. Comparing and Contrasting is belaboring the obvious. Anyone can see the difference. The upper body work is nonexistent in regards to Copeland. She grimaces, grits her teeth, licks or bites her lip while she dances and you can see it all in a fan video of her dancing Ratmansky's Nutcracker. I don't like that she spots to the audience in her chaine turns. I've never seen another dancer do such a thing. It's tacky and turns it into a show about her Copeland not the story or character the choreography is trying to convey. I'm pretty much resigned to her presence and her likely promotion this coming summer season. She has made it impossible for ABT to do anything else lest they be accused of discrimination by Copeland and her minions. But I won't buy into the story that she is a fabulous dancer.

No, Tapfan There are plenty of black ballet dancers now who are more deserving than Copeland. Courtney Lavine is 10x her worth. If she was promoted straight to principal, I would have no doubts as to her ability to dance well. And she would be the politically correct choice that everyone seems to be demanding. Copeland is inept in everything but her marketing. As far as defending Copeland by other dancers, she has herself beyond reproach now since she is on TV almost everywhere you look crying martyr. What dancer would shoot themselves in the foot by critiquing her honestly?

Comparing Nureyev to Copeland has to be the most outrageous snippet I've read in a long time. Copeland is nowhere near his league. Nor is she in the same league with old ABT stars such as Gregory, Kirkland, Van Hamel or Makarova. And to say that you can't tell excellence from a film clip is false. Just take a look at any clip of the above mentioned dancers than take a look at what Copeland's PR team has released. If anyone claims that can't see the difference, they are lying. Copeland isn't even in the same league as Virginia Johnson who danced a glorious Giselle at Dance Theater of Harlem. But her principal status doesn't count because? All of these dancers I,and most people, know from their dancing. I know Copeland mainly by her bellyaching and her naked attempts to force her way into principal status.

I have the same impression. I hear all about her tribulations but barely anything about her actual dancing skills. And the clips of her dancing that are allowed to stay on Youtube have been extremely unimpressive. It is also highly interesting that no record of her recent Swan Lakes are on the web unless her marketing team have released edited versions or staged rehearsal clips.