Tom47

White Acts / Rainbow Acts: I remember reading somewhere that acts 2 and 4 of Swan Lake, the ones by the lake, are called the White Acts, I guess because the swans are traditionally dressed in white. Well it seems to me that there are other "White Acts." One is the Dance of the Snowflakes from the Nutcracker. Another is the act of the Shades from La Bayadere. Also there is the last act from Giselle. They also seem to me to take place at night. On the other hand there seems to be some "Rainbow Acts" - acts where different groups of dancers of the Corp de Ballet are dressed in varying pastel colors. The difference here is that the White Acts are traditional, while the Rainbow Acts seem to only be in certain productions. Two such acts are Le Jardin Anime sequence from American Ballet Theatre's 1999 production of Le Corsaire and the Dream sequence from the Mariinsky Ballet's 2006 production of Don Quixote. Tom,

Sandi I thank you for all of the help you have given me in improving my understanding of ballet. Tom, :-)

Sandi, I am not sure what you mean. For example I do not know what a "click-track" means. I did view a half minute of "Square Dance," both with the sound on and the sound off and I feel it has more in common with what I see as ballet than Rodeo does, of course that was only 30 seconds so that may have affected my judgment. I found a website from Pacific Northwest Ballet (here https://www.pnb.org/repertorylist/square-dance/) where "Square Dance" is described as combining ". . . classical ballet, 17th century court dance, and American country dancing." On the same website George Balanchine is quoted as saying "Ballet and other forms of dance of course can be traced back to folk dance . . . and it occurred to me that it would be possible to combine these two different types of dance, the folk and the classical, in one work." This indicates to me that this work is a blending of two or more forms of dance. In the little of "Rodeo" that I have seen I feel the steps where the dancers were miming riding on horses to be a mixture of ballet and contemporary dance. It also seems to me, particularly from what you wrote in your post of July 16th, that you think there is blending or overlap between ballet and some other form of dance in the cases of Rodeo, Dark Elegies, Voluntaries and Carmina Burana. Am I understanding you correctly? I very much appreciate you taking the time to reply to me. Tom,

Yes, Sandi it is the case that some of what I see as "like ballet" is a result of the training of the dancers and I have no doubt that there are differences in regard to the torso and the legs. Some of what I see as similarity between the two forms of dance is the intensity and the exaggeration of movement in both that I do not see as much in some other forms of dance. I was able to find and watch parts of Rodeo, Voluntaries and Carmina Burana. My judgment of what is or what is not ballet is based on my impression and not on objective knowledge of movements. I did consider Rodeo and Carmina Burana to be somewhat of a mixture of ballet and contemporary or some other form of dance, but I felt Voluntaries was pretty much what I feel is ballet. In the past I have seen Balanchine's Western Symphony and based on my memory of it I feel it is somewhere between Rodeo and what I feel is ballet. Tom,

Philip, I found your comment interesting, but due to my lack of detailed knowledge on the subject I will need to re-read your post a number of times to be able to begin to understand it in regard to ballet. You do bring up a good point in talking about the difference between the sensation of the movement felt by the performer herself and the sensation of the person watching this movement. However, I am not sure what you mean by ". . . misses the point." Just to be clear "kinetic impressions" is something I made up and spoke about, I think, detail. If a person understands the two words kinetic impressions (without the quotes) to be something other than what I wrote about then that person is referring to something other than "kinetic impressions" (with the quotes). I wrote that "kinetic impressions" are types of art and I do not consider all images or movements to be art so while football certainly is movement I do not consider it to be art and therefore I do not consider it to be a form of "kinetic impressions." Also "kinetic impressions" can include movement that is not human movement for example abstract animation. However, I do consider some "sports" to be "kinetic impressions." These would be what I think of as the "beautiful sports" or "artistic sports" Gymnastics, Synchronized Swimming, Figure Skating, etc. although I prefer to call them "Athletic Arts" emphasizing the term Art. And by the way I am looking forward to viewing some them during the upcoming Olympics. As is the case with others in this forum you have much more knowledge of ballet than I do. Also thank you for the compliment. Tom,

Drew I agree that ballet has an affinity with fantastical creatures and spirits and I would be happy if people continue to contribute to this thread, not only in regard to ballets which incorporate these beings, but also as to their thoughts regarding them. Again thank you for your contribution. To all, In regard to the ballets "A Folk Tale" from Imspear and the "Princess and the Goblin" from Drew: There seems to be two types of Trolls, both from Scandinavian traditions. One kind is large and is seen by humans to be "ugly." These seem to be related to Ogres. The other kind is smaller and looks human, however, they have tails. Perhaps these are cousins of Fairies. I see Elves as being closely related to Fairies and the difference may only be that Elves are from Scandinavian traditions and Fairies are from French traditions. The two traditions then mix in the British Isles. Further I think of Fairies as being more likely to have wings and Elves as more likely to have pointed ears. I used to think Goblins or Hobgoblins as being a type of Ghost, but in doing a little research I now think of Goblins are being more like the "ugly" Trolls, although smaller. As with beauty I feel that ugly is in the eye of the beholder so while Goblins and some Trolls may appear ugly or gruesome to humans they may appear beautiful to other Goblins and Trolls. Tom,

Alexandra and rg, thank you for your information. I am going to try and find the Dance International article and the youtube interviews. Sorry I didn't get back to you earlier. Tom,

Sandi, my background is as a member of the audience and I consider myself to be a generalist, meaning that I have a general knowledge of a number of different fields including ballet, but not necessarily detailed knowledge so I do have gaps in my knowledge of ballet. I consider my postings on these boards to be general in nature and I hope to and have learned from participating in the discussions and those who have replied to my posts have been very helpful. Your statement ". . .yes, there are many works that incorporate elements of classical ballet that are not, essentially, ballets" and your other comments answers my question very well. I do view dance on my computer and I have started to look for the works you listed, although I cannot always find what I would like to find. Also thank you for the link to the conference. A particularly interest of mine is in ". . . the definition of 'contemporary' and 'contemporary ballet'" in relationship to the type of dance performed by the Alvin Ailey American Dance Theater. I feel that form of dance is somewhat like ballet. Tom,

Humans name things and in the process of being named these things are often categorized. For example certain types of actions are called "dance" and certain types of dance are called "ballet," so one category of actions is those actions that are dance and one subcategory of dance is those dances that are ballet. I feel there is a tendency among many people and I include myself in that, to make categories black and white. That is actions are either 100% dance or 0% dance, meaning not dance at all and dances are either 100% ballet or 0% ballet, meaning not ballet at all. But that may not be the most accurate way of looking at the world - fuzzy logic, which I call "blended logic" categories things differently. For example there are certain dances that most people would consider to be ballet and there are certain dances that most people would consider not to be ballet. Using blended logic one would look to see if there might be certain dances which, based on their characteristics and to various degrees could be considered to be mostly ballet and other somewhat ballet and others somewhat not ballet and still others mostly not ballet. Further are there some dances that, in this way, might be considered to be half ballet and half not ballet? An analogy can be found in colors. My computer can show 256 different "hues" of the rainbow. Pure red has a hue value of 0 (zero), while pure green has a hue value of 85 and pure blue has a hue value of 170. Adding pure green to pure red we move toward orange (21) and yellow (42). Then by removing red we will continue on to pure green (85) when red equals zero. Adding pure blue to pure green will eventually bring us to pure blue (170) when green equals zero then adding red we can reach purple (127) and by removing blue we can go back to pure red (0 or 256). This doesn't mean that orange is the same as red, but that orange is a mixture of red and green, it has some elements or characteristics of red and also some elements or characteristics of green. Now can we use the same process with dance? While there are some dances that could be considered pure ballet and some that could be considered pure not ballet, are there also some dances that have elements or characteristics associated with ballet and at the same time some elements or characteristic associated with not ballet? That is are there dances that are mixtures of ballet and not ballet? Tom,

Imspear, again like "Sylvia," "A Folk Tale" is a ballet that I have never heard of before, so thank you for the information. In looking it up I found that there are also Elves in the ballet and I found a trailer for a possibly Danish production of it. It seems something that I would enjoy and from the little I heard I liked the music. Also, from pictures I have been able to see it seems that is beautifully done. Drew, thanks for mentioning the "Princess and the Goblin" this is another ballet I did not know of. In searching I found that The New York Times has an interesting 2012 article about this ballet and Ms. Tharp. To all, I recently was reminded of the ballet "Napoli," from 1842 originally choreographed by August Bournonville. This ballet fits the topic of this thread in that it contains Sea Nymphs or Nereides. I also found information on the ballet "Onfine" which premiered in 1958 at Covent Garden, London and was choreographed by Sir Frederick Ashton with music by Hans Werner Henze and I found a short Youtube video entitled "Vera Zonrina in Balanchine's (Undine) Water Nymphs Ballet." I am not sure how connected the ballet in the video is to the "Ondine" ballet. The names Ondine and Undine appear to be interchangeable. Sea Nymphs, Nereides, Ondines and Undines seem to me to be related somewhat to Mermaids, except that Sea Nymphs have human legs. Tom,

The Magical Snowflakes, the Dancing Flowers and Le Spectre de la Rose are somewhat difficult to categorize. Are they some type of mystical beings or are they just representations of objects that would not be expected to dance? In the ballet I see Le Spectre de la Rose to be not so much a representation of a Rose, but a representation of the young woman's pleasurable remembrance of the dance she just returned from. To me the dance of the Spectre is all about the young woman. In regard to the Flowers and Snowflakes of "The Nutcracker" ballet I am happy to see the dancers as representing some spiritual essence of those bits of nature. Perhaps this essence is a Fairy-like or Nymph-like spirit within those objects. Lastly are the Fauns. On one hand I am tempted to equate Fauns with male Fairies however I chose not to do that. While Fauns are nicer than Satyrs I see male Fairies as being even nicer than Fauns. Female Fairies would not be displeased by male Fairies, as the Nymphs were displeased by the Faun in the ballet. Also male and female Fairies are part of the same group and are friends with each other unlike the Nymphs and the Faun. Further, Fauns are half human and half goat, with the bottom half being the goat, while I consider male Fairies to have as much a human form as female Fairies. However, the mid 19th century sculptor, Harriet Hosmer did produce an almost life size sculpture of "A Sleeping Faun" with human legs. See below: http://s3-media3.fl.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/j7OHpIDtdGnn3c5oHxve7w/o.jpg Tom,

Helene, thank you for the information on "Sylvia" I haven't heard of it before and after your comment I found and was able to watch two short youtube videos. One was from the first act and the other was a number of short dances from a Royal Ballet production. It seems as you described it and I am looking to find a full length recording. I'm glad you commented since now I know of another ballet with mythological or enchanted beings. To all, three of the mythological or enchanted beings are unique characters - Amor, Puck (Robin Goodfellow) and The Firebird. Amor is also known as Cupid or Eros and is male, although from what I've seen in the dream sequence of "Don Quixote" his role is danced by a woman. Amor, Cupid or Eros is generally depicted as a young boy, but is sometimes depicted as a young man. And I just learned that as Eros he plays a role in the ballet "Sylva." While different characters Puck reminds me of Amor in that I think of them both as being young and mischievous. I also associate Puck with the Greek god Pan, as well as with Peter Pan. In my opinion the best representation of Puck is the performance by Mickey Rooney (age 14) in the 1935 film "A Midsummer Night's Dream." The third such being is The Firebird. She is from Russian folklore and instead of having a human form is in the form of a bird however, I feel she would get along very well with Fairies. Tom,

It seems to me that Nymphs are similar in characteristics to female Fairies, although Nymphs may generally be considered to be larger than Fairies. Nymphs are supernatural beings, but are not full-fledged goddesses, which could also be said of Fairies. Further, there are many different types of Nymphs connected with various parts of nature such as forests or bodies of water. Fairies could also be considered to be of different types for example Tinkerbell from J. M. Barrie is a Tinker Fairy. Dryads are Nymphs associated with groves, woodlands, forests and trees. The Queen of the Dryads dances in the dream sequence of "Don Quixote" so I take the unnamed dancers to be her subject and her subjects would be Dryads. Sylphides could be seen as being Fairies of the air. My guess is that every culture has a tradition of some type of enchanted being that could be seen as similar to Fairies or Nymphs. In the case of Arabian cultures that enchanted being could be Jinni or Genies. I found a Japanese "Fairy Tale" about a baby girl, named Kaguya, who is found inside a bamboo plant. As she grows up she explains that she is one of a race of Moon beings. These Moon beings could be the equivalent of Japanese Fairies. If anyone knows of Fairy like creatures from cultures other than European kindly let me know of them. Tom,

The English word Fairy or Fairie goes back to c. 1300 and is connected with the Old French Fae, which in turn is connected with the Latin word Fata meaning a goddess of Fate or The Fates. I like Fairies and feel that they are very suitable characters for ballet. J. M. Barrie writes in "Peter Pan in Kensington Gardens" (1906, a prequel to the story of Peter Pan and Wendy) that "fairies are exquisite dancers," but this is only when the are happy for "The [the fairies] forget all the steps when they are sad and remember them again when they are merry." He goes on to write that ". . . fairies never say 'we feel happy' what they say is 'we feel dancey'." Arthur Rackham produced illustrations for "Peter Pan in Kensington Gardens." Illustrations showing Fairies dancing can be found by doing Google image searches for the following: There is almost nothing that has such a keen sense of fun as a fallen leaf Fairies never say, "we feel happy": what they say is "we feel dancey" My idea is when they are not going naked Fairies would dress in beautiful garments such as ballet dancers wear, tutus for the female fairies and tights for the males, but of course Fairies do not limit themselves to those items as they are so fond of dressing in many different graceful and charming styles. How that I mention it Fairies are not only female. There are also male Fairies and they are just as beautiful as the female Fairies. Tom,

Some of the enchanted beings in ballet, the transformed swans of "Swan Lake," were at one time human and could return to being human. Also in this way was the Bluebird from the last act of "The Sleeping Beauty" who, in his and Florine's own story (written by Marie-Catherine d'Aulnoy) was a King transformed into a bird and finally transformed back. On the other hand Wiles were human women who died with their true love being unreciprocated. Also, in classical mythology Shades are the specters or ghosts of the dead, so they also were at one time human. Tom,

Sandi and Amy, thank you for your comments. Amy your point about freedom is interesting. I haven't thought about that before. To All, It seems to me that the enchanted beings in ballet tend to be benevolent or at least benign although there are exceptions. Of the ones listed the Wiles may be the most evil, but that malevolence is only toward men and the Wiles might feel they are justified in what they do. Another interesting case is the Faun. Fauns differ from Satyrs in that Satyrs are known to chase women, in particular Nymphs, while Fauns are more into dance and music - they are more playful. In both the poem and the ballet, "The Afternoon of a Faun," the Faun is attracted to the Nymphs and in the ballet the Faun displeases the Nymphs, but he is not violent. Nymphs are not always passive, in the myth of Hylas the beautiful young man of that name is abducted by Nymphs. Here is a painting of that event: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CR-bac0UsAEYf46.jpg:large Robin Goodfellow or Puck is more mischievous than bad or evil. There is the evil fairy Carabosse or Disney's Maleficent, however, Disney in a 2014 live action movie does explain her actions and so rehabilitates her. In "Swan Lake" there is Odile, but I have always thought of her as being under the control of Rothbart (her father?) so she is not really evil just unlucky as to who her father is. Tom,

One of my favorite things about ballet are the magical, mysterious or enchanted beings, depicted in that art form. Fairies are in "The Sleeping Beauty" and "A Mid Summer Night's Dream;" Sylphides are in "La Sylphides" and Wiles are in "Giselle" and the Magical Snowflakes, the Dancing Flowers and a Sugar Plum Fairy are in "The Nutcracker." In the ballet "The Firebird" is the Firebird and in "Swan Lake" are the women transformed into Swans. Three other such creatures are the Shades from "La Bayadere," the Spectre from "Le Spectre de la Rose" and Robin Goodfellow or Puck from "A Mid Summer Night's Dream." Also are the beings from classical mythology, the Faun and the Nymphs from "The Afternoon of a Faun"" and the Dryads and Amor from the dream sequence of "Don Quixote." Tom,

Sandik, thank you for taking the time to explain this and for the book recommendation. Tom,

Sandik, as I indicated before I do have the knowledgeable of the details of ballet and its development as others on this forum, in particular you, have. Therefore I have found your comments instructive, although I am still not that familiar with all of the terms. It appears to me that "Dans d'Ecole" means "in the school" so that seems to refer to academic styles of dancing. I know that Ballet d'Action refers to ballet primarily designed to tell a story. When I first read your post I wasn't sure how Ballet d'Action differed from the Classical works, but in thinking about it, it seems that in the ballets of the second half of the 19th century, while having stories also have a number of dances that do little to advance the story. I am not too sure as to how the Stanislavskian method is applied to ballet, but I feel that Balanchine's ballets, perhaps with the exception of his A Midsummer Night's Dream, tend to be more abstract and not as much about a story as ballets from the period before him. As I do not have the knowledge of dance that you have I would appreciate you letting me know where I misunderstood you. Tom,

Helene, this is interesting as I have just started reading fiction again. In particular I have read all six of Jane Austen's finished novels within the past 2 months or so. I also like fairytales and read both Alice books. Tom,

Sandik, thank you for your contribution, your point is important and I agree with you. To All, while I feel I know more about ballet (I was self taught) than the average person I do not know anywhere near as much as the contributors to this forum. I do feel that I have somewhat of an understanding of the concepts dealing with the arts in general and the following contrast between Romanticism and Neo Classicalism is based on that general knowledge and is meant to be in regard to all the arts. As with all else I write I recognize that I could be mistaken and would appreciate any corrections. Romanticism: Motivation is based on emotions Nature ultimately is more powerful than human kind Emotions are expressed When there is tragedy it is due to the failure of humans No underlying rules instead chaos History and mythology of the existing European nations, Fairies, Wiles The Exotic particularly North Africa, the Middle East and India Non ballet examples: Beethoven's Sixth Symphony "The Pastoral" premiered December 22, 1808 and Theodore Gericault's "Raft of the Medusa" (1819) Neo Classicalism: Motivation is based on duty Human kind is ultimately more powerful than Nature Stoicism When there is tragedy it is due to fate Simple underlying rules such as in geometry and mathematics History and mythology of the Classical Cultures, Roman and Greek Judaic-Christianity Beethoven' Fifth Symphony premiered December 22, 1808 and David's "Oath of the Horatii" (1785) I don't mean to say that every work of art can be clearly put in each category. There are other categories and some works are a blend of both. Tom,

Thank you Sandik for your information and for the recommendation of Ivor Guest. Ashton Fan, thank you for your information on Soviet ballet not only in regard to the ending of Swan Lake, but also in regard to the mime passages and the Jester. One of the thing I notice in the first act of that ballet is how Prince Siegfried expresses his melancholy, which shows to me that he is desirous of something that is missing from his life, but does not know what it is or how he can realize this desire. This to me is the essence of the 19th century Romanic Idea. Tom,

Alexandra and Ashton Fan, first I apologize for not replying to your kind comments earlier. Your "bit of history" is interesting Alexandra. As to your point about "scantier clothing" I wrote in the topic "Thoughts regarding dancewear" (Aesthetic Issues board) that the word "tutu" came from the French juvenile term "cucu" which refers to a person's bottom. This seems to support your point. There are many reasons way I enjoy ballet - the music, the costumes, the colors, the intense and athletic dancing, the emotions expressed by the dancer's face and body among others. But, I also enjoy looking at the human form, both fully dressed and less dressed and also naked. So, "much scantier clothing" is an attraction to me. I've read that the change during the Romantic Era from the emphasis on male dancers to female dancers had something to do with the overthrow of the nobility during the French Revolution. I also see a drastic change in clothing styles, particularly that of men, during the late 18th and early 19th century which may also be due to that revolution. Men's clothing became boring especially after the 1820s. Ashton Fan, thank you for your information on Marie Rambert and Mona Ingoldsby. I am interested in cases where men are presented as visually attractive (beautiful) or the visual center of attention, which I see being the case many times in ballet, but also where women's lives are presented as being important and making a difference in ways other than being visually attractive i.e. using their brains. A scenario where a women or women, possibly older women, are the owners and choreographers of a ballet company and who work with visually attractive younger male dancers would fit that situation, so I asked this question to see if there were any real life cases of that and I am happy to have received a lot of examples. For the same reason I am also interested in women artists who have depicted the male nude in their work. I have found quite a number of examples of this. Tom,

Well tomorrow, June 20, in North America is the Summer Solstice, which some consider being Midsummer Day and Night, although others consider it to be on June 24. The Summer Solstice is the day which has the longest daylight. It makes sense that people, in the past before electric lights and even candles, would celebrate this day as then when It got dark it really got dark. What is even more special and magical about this Midsummer Night is that it also has a full moon, so our friends Titania, Robin Goodfellow, Oberon, Peaseblossom, Cobweb, Mote, Mustardseed and the other fairies will have good light to frolic in. Maybe there will be a quartet of lovers who will find themselves all mixed up and a group of amateur actors rehearsing a play. In Europe and some other parts of the world this Summer Solstice comes a day later on June 21 and those who live below the equator will have to wait six more months. Tom,

Drew, thank you for your suggestions. Tom,