Leigh Witchel

Come to think of it, I've got to ask - why are we still talking about Forsythe like it's 1989 and he's the bold future of ballet when he hasn't made a ballet in years? Can someone name a ballet work Forsythe's done since the Forsythe rep program for Paris in '99? (Woundwork and pas/parts) It's not as if works such as Artifact and Czar weren't great and that's I think why we do hold on to them, but that's not what he's doing - and we have to ignore his current output to discuss him in a balletic light.

Forsythe did do what Sulcas described. He's not really doing that any more. Forsythe ca. 1989 and Forsythe ca. 2009 (or for that matter 1999) are two completely different animals. At this point, to argue that he continues Balanchine's line is to ignore most of what he's done for more than a decade. It has almost nothing to do with Balanchine, or even dance at times. When Forsythe is good he's awfully good, but Decreation at BAM (from '03) was pretentious and godawful. He's decided to go from being a first tier choreographer to being a second rate tanztheater artist. The dance vocabulary in his current works may still follow the theoretical precepts he espouses. But there's little to no dance left in it any more. Movement, yes. But no dance. It's a crying shame.

Call me an idiot, but I think making college more affordable would save the humanities. The pressure to make a quarter of a million dollar expense "worth something" is one thing forcing education to become vocational education.

I recall Francis joking about being dragged to Orpheus - and hating Massine. I was lucky to receive his support in many areas. I'm so happy for his long, full life - all the good he did (and if you knew him - the absolutely nerve-wracking things that could come out of his mouth in the most jovial tone.) He'll be missed terribly.

ABT just announced Radetsky's return to the company today -

Helene, If you can find me 10 who are worse actors than Pierce Brosnan. I swear on a stack of bibles, I will pay your rent/ mortgage, gas, electricity, utility bills for a year. It doesn't matter if Brosnan has all the acting ability of a pithed frog in a ninth grade biology lab. It matters how he looks in a tuxedo. Who watches him ACT, anyway?

They're still there. Go to the forum, and at the bottom right hand, you'll see a drop-down option button for how old a thread to show. The default may be 30 days, select "show all" and you'll find them.

Partly my fault specifically as a mod - partly August, but we have drifted off-color (you pick which color.) It was all in fun, though risque, but let's try and get things PG again. I give papeetepatrick special commendation for restraint above and beyond the call of propriety when we all knew he wanted to go for the double entendre. Play nice, everyone. This means you, Simon. There's plenty of interesting information here about St. Denis, let's continue the topic.

When I think of portrayal of gays in the early 60's, I think of Dirk Bogarde in the 1961 film "Victim." I'm sure there's a difference between film's portrayal of homosexuality and actual gay life in 1963 - but I was born that year!

Rachel Maddow gave a lovely, cogent speech on dance and arts appreciation at Jacob's Pillow:

Another voice in agreement with rg. With all apologies to those for whom live performances are scarce or difficult, if you know a ballet only from video, you don't know it.

Though probably not by the author of that article.

I cannot respond to this because I am too busy clutching my pearls. I am retiring to my fainting fauteuil. Will someone please revive me when August is over. If I can rouse myself I will be doing crewel embroidery. Until then, if you wish to contact me, bring smelling salts and orange blossom water.

OK, If I ever see the expression "tsunami of urine" on the board again I'm shutting it down for 24 hours, and you will find me in a darkened room breathing from a respirator, with a cold compress on my forehead and cucumber slices on my eyes. Don't chance it

You know, I think I recall that noise and wondering about it (I was in the orchestra) I'm glad it didn't happen during Osipova's Giselle. I would have gone up there and decked them.

I hope they were in the amphi. Given the price of tickets in the stalls and grand tier a hotel room would have been the more cost-effective choice.

There is someone at The Post whose job is to write the headlines. My editor reported to me that his comment on one of the more gnarly puns was "Makes them think!"

It's very sad to lose him - one of the few who could rightly be described as epochal. What an impressive career and life.

Folks, how about you all take one more post to conclude your thoughts - if you need to. Otherwise let's say this thread has run its course.

[moderator beanie on] Speaking of strictly moderated We're not out of line, but we are starting to go in circles at this point. People have stated their positions and re-stated them for good measure. Some of it comes down to a wider issue of salaries and labor and people's sense of fairness - we're probably not going to change many more minds at this point. [moderator beanie off]

Merrill Ashley. I was a dance student myself at the time and Ashley was the paradigm of The Good Student. Struggling to gain technique, one watched her and believed that anything was possible with assiduous, persistent work. Shortly after, when I saw her Juliet, Makarova, who showed one the opposite - that not everyone could be that gifted.

I'll admit my list is also topped by Forsythe in his ballet mode - Impressing the Czar and even more, the full version of Artifact. Not just for the movement itself (which is inventive) but even more for making a ballet with more content than steps. I like Russian Seasons by Ratmansky and Wheeldon's After the Rain for many of the same reasons.

I'm very sorry to see him go and interested in where he surfaces next. I always enjoyed his dancing - he was a go-for-broke type, but with a French flair for the dramatic.

You're thinking of The New Sleep - SFB did it in '87 - it was high For Export (it seems every company got a piece of his from 1987-91 - the holdout was ABT.) I'm sympathetic to him at least partly because he was my generation's "nearly The One" and I think he has a particular historical resonance to those who came of age in ballet in the eighties. To my mind, Artifact is even better than Czar. It's less combative and less pretentious (every Forsythe work has some pretentiousness. The price of admission.) But he stuck to his theme - Memory and the endurance of art - and the dance sections reflect and distill the themes - he does make choreography in Artifact that functions as metaphor as well. Czar grew around In the Middle (another for export work) and it doesn't feel integrated into the whole. Weirdly, the Forsythe pieces I think are most successful are *about* ballet. He might disagree. To get back to the point of the discussion though, it's not about ballets looking more like Forsythe's work. It's about making ballets that dig into their ideas, whatever they are. It is, most importantly, about saying something because it is what you need and have to say.

A huge, huge topic and I'm an odd one to defend Forsythe as I've slammed him as much as lauded him, but Forsythe "for export" is a completely different animal than the work he made for his own company. I didn't see that kind of potential in Forsythe outside of the works he made for Ballett Frankfurt (Maybe in France/Dance - made in '83 for POB) . The "for export" pieces are steps and sensations. I didn't see the Daphnis or Orpheus - by the time he did Artifact and Czar he was working with his own themes without narratives and I'd argue he was successful. (Paging Marc, who would argue vociferously that he wasn't!)