Mel Johnson Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 Take one from column A, two from column B, with three you get coda. Link to comment
Solor Posted March 22, 2005 Author Share Posted March 22, 2005 I have a CD that has the Pas d'Esclave and credits the music to pugni, credits the trio de odalisques to minkus, and the grand pas to drigo. It is by the Nice Orch. After studying and hearing these composers music for a long time I think that the composers credited are correct. The pas d'esclave is a typical Pugni pas where the same theme of music is used in different ways throughout the entree, variations and coda - a good example is his type of pas is the pas de deux from Satenella/Carnival in Venice - he uses the same tune in differents ways. The Odalisques music sounds like Minkus big time. Its easier to tell by his original arrangements. I always thought this pas had great tunes! If you wanna hear the original orchestrations watch the Kirovs version of the full work, or in a gala they did: the Kirov in London. Everyone knows Drigo did the Grand Pas. He was really good at orchestration, and when you hear his original arrangments, so rarely recorded, you can see he was a great composer. Does anyone know who reorchestrated Pavlovas Bayadere, the one recorded by Bonynge? I have the CD "the art of the prima ballerina" and It is obviously re-arranged, very colorfully. I really enjoy thse arrangements, and I have always been curious about who did them. How about the arrangemetns for Corsaire done by ABT? Link to comment
Ariodante Posted March 26, 2005 Share Posted March 26, 2005 Hi, please, forgive me if this question is ridiculous but it bothers me and I don't know where to look for an answer. In the booklet to DVD with a wonderful Bolshoi performance of Glazunov's "Raymonda" (ArtHausMusik) there is a following phrase: "(Glazunov) didn't want to submit to the requirements of the choreography and felt that the specification of a 32-bar period, for example, was a corset cramping his style....". "Raymonda" was G.'s first ballet score and what that quotation implies is that he felt restricted by some of the strict rules that writing ballet music would impose on him. This made me realize that indeed, much of classical ballet music is based on a 32-bar period. Why? What is so special in a 32-bar period from a dancer's point of view? Does it have anything to do with some physical aspects of dancing? While writing an opera, composers have to take into considerations the limitations of the human voice, particularly of the singers they create a role for. While writing music for specific instruments, they have to think of many physical aspects of the performance, e.g. the length of performer's breath in the case of wood instruments. Does a 32-bar period have anything to do with such "technical" matters or did it become a basic unit in classical ballet for some other reasons? Thank you very much for any input! Best greetings, Izabela Link to comment
Mel Johnson Posted March 27, 2005 Share Posted March 27, 2005 It fits the way that Petipa and his contemporaries choreographed. A 32-bar period is made up of four 8-bar phrases. The way that choreography ran in the late 19th century, the "formula" was: Do something three times, then do something similar but which stops, thus ending the period. Why they did that I don't know, and my crystal ball is in the shop, so I can't call them up and ask them! Link to comment
Ariodante Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 It's strange - I answered your message yesterday but I don't see it! It was a simple Thank you, but one can never thank enough, so I'll do it again! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: My best, Izabela Link to comment
Solor Posted April 4, 2005 Author Share Posted April 4, 2005 Im not sure who, I think it was the Joffery Ballet, but I recall reading somewhere that theer was a pas de deux that Minkus had written for one of Petipa's revivals of Giselle. The pas was for Giselle and Albrecht in Act I, and it was definatly not the Bergmuller Peasant pas de deux used in every production of Giselle. The music is not used in traditional productions of the ballet anymore, but it was written for it. Does anyone have any info on this piece? Or perhaps know of a recording of it on film or just the music on CD? Link to comment
Solor Posted April 4, 2005 Author Share Posted April 4, 2005 "Do something three times, then do something similar but which stops, thus ending the period." That whole "32-bar" thing makes perfect scense! A teacher of mine said once that same thing thats Mel J. said when I was learning the variation form Corsaire Pas d'esclave, and I remember thinking that you can see it through just about ANY classical variation. Link to comment
pugbee Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 I searched on this website, and found a post from 2003 directing someone to the Ballets de Monte Carlo vol. 2 recording on Arion. But I can't find that recording!! It is listed on Amazon, but they say they don't have it (so why is it listed?!) I couldn't even find it on arkivmusic.com -- the place I always find what I need!!! Any ideas on where else I might look? Does anyone know of other recordings available??? Link to comment
Helene Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 The music for "Who Cares?" is a compilation of songs by George and Ira Gershwin, orchestrated by Hershey Kay for NYCB, and in one case -- the pas de deux for the demis -- is a medley created by Kay. I've never seen a commercial recording of Kay's arrangement. The individual songs are available individually in many commercial recordings by a wide range of artists. A full-length version was broadcast live in the 80's on either Great Performances or Dance in America. (I think the dancers were McBride, Watts, Lopez, and Lavery.). I don't know if it would be useful to you to "lift" the soundtrack, as it is full of audience noise and applause, if you could get a copy of it. The Balanchine Celebration version is a truncated version of the piece and also was recorded live. There was a studio version with Karin von Aroldingen, but I don't know if this was complete. Link to comment
Mel Johnson Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 The pas de deux arranged by Kay predates the whole ballet by several years, and was one of the deciding factors in Balanchine's choice of arranger for the rest of the ballet. The ballet score as a whole has never been recorded. Link to comment
pugbee Posted April 21, 2005 Share Posted April 21, 2005 Thank you both! This is so frustrating... I just want my kids to begin working on the variations in their variations class, but we don't have a pianist!!! Oh well.... Link to comment
Herman Stevens Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 I searched on this website, and found a post from 2003 directing someone to the Ballets de Monte Carlo vol. 2 recording on Arion. But I can't find that recording!! It is listed on Amazon, but they say they don't have it (so why is it listed?!) I couldn't even find it on arkivmusic.com -- the place I always find what I need!!! Any ideas on where else I might look? Does anyone know of other recordings available??? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The Monte Carlo recording is available thru amazon France. Here are a couple cheap ones, but it would take some time to reachyou (assuming you are in the US). Or here, where they also mention a delivery time of various weeks. Who Cares? (very nice) is coupled with La Valse. Link to comment
Helene Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 That's great -- I thought this recording had only a few excerpts, but it's got everything, including the now rarely-performed "Liza." Link to comment
Mel Johnson Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 I'm not quite sure whether this is the Kay arrangement, or just the "Gershwin Song-Book" played through by a pianist. That's where Balanchine got the idea for this ballet in the first place. Link to comment
Guest RuthNYC Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 The recording lists an orchestra, but there are no links to hear any of the Gershwin, Link to comment
Mel Johnson Posted April 24, 2005 Share Posted April 24, 2005 It does list an orchestra, but I wonder if it's just for the Valses Nobles et Sentimentales and La Valse? Kay isn't listed as a subsidiary, as in many ballets, viz., "La Boutique Fantasque" - Rossini-Respighi, "Pineapple Poll" - Sullivan-Mackerras, etc. Link to comment
Anthony_NYC Posted April 24, 2005 Share Posted April 24, 2005 It does appear to be a recording of the ballet score for orchestra. You can buy it directly from the label that recorded it: http://www.arion-music.com/produit.php?cdi...ode_recherche=1 Link to comment
Ari Posted April 24, 2005 Share Posted April 24, 2005 If the track list on the Arion site that Anthony linked to above is correct, this isn't a complete recording. The list mentions only two of the demisolo duets, 'S Wonderful and Lady Be Good. There are three others, including (off the top of my head, can't remember the other two), Sweet and Low Down. Link to comment
Herman Stevens Posted April 24, 2005 Share Posted April 24, 2005 I'm not quite sure whether this is the Kay arrangement, or just the "Gershwin Song-Book" played through by a pianist. That's where Balanchine got the idea for this ballet in the first place. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Please, this is a cd by the Orchestre Philharmonique de Monte-Carlo, conducted by David Garforth. It says so on the label; it says so on Amazon. (It is also a fact.) So what makes you think this is a piano version? This is the orchestra that has been accompanying ballets for many generations. Who Cares? has been on the Monte Carlo repertoire for quite a while, and this is the performing score. I know Europe is a really bewildering place with all those different languages and currencies, but it's not like they are going to record your symphonies and stuff in piano reductions and run with your money. Link to comment
Mel Johnson Posted April 24, 2005 Share Posted April 24, 2005 Amazon.fr cites Hervé Billaut as pianist. In any case, what would be played if the version were all-piano would be the original version. Further, Administrators do not take kindly to condescension. Link to comment
Helene Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 If the track list on the Arion site that Anthony linked to above is correct, this isn't a complete recording. The list mentions only two of the demisolo duets, 'S Wonderful and Lady Be Good. There are three others, including (off the top of my head, can't remember the other two), Sweet and Low Down. The site listing is incomplete. According to several other sites selling the same record, Track 13 is "S'Wonderful" (couple 1) and "That Certain Feeling" (couples 2 and 3) Track 14 is "Do, Do, Do" (couple 4) and "Lady Be Good" (couple 5). Two sites in the UK, including amazon in the UK, list Track 15 as "The man I love - Matthias Person" "Sweet Down and Low" was nowhere to be found on any track listing. I couldn't remember which one it was, until I looked it up and listened to an excerpt of Gershwin playing it! Earlier, I confused "Liza" with "Clap Yo' Hands" -- "Liza" is the male solo that is almost always performed, while "Clap Yo' Hands" was a pas de quatre for the male and three female leads that was dropped in the mid-70's. (I saw it once, either in November '86 or '87 in a special performance.) Link to comment
Jack Reed Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 Female pas de trois, I thought. For what it's worth, I think I can account for "Clap Yo' Hands'" elimination: NYCB was dancing Who Cares? at Ravinia (the Chicago Symphony's summer location), and the first night, there was this long pause when the tape of Gershwin's recording was supposed to play, and then they danced the final number; the second night, the tape started to play backwards, and the girls started to dance! Irving rapped on his music stand with his baton, averting artistic catastrophe, and the girls, pouting, flounced off, looking very disappointed. My theory is that Mr. B got ticked off, decided, The Hell with it! and took it out. Link to comment
Mel Johnson Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 Just to add a little piquancy to the whole thing, the ballet score for "Who Cares?" is made up of the music selected by George Gershwin before his death (well, it would have been tough for him to do it after) for "The Gershwin Song-Book". The book is made up of 18 pieces and concludes with "I Got Rhythm". His brother Ira selected other songs for successive volumes of the popular music, but George selected the first one. The Gershwin Estate is alive and well, and the royalties for producing, let's say, "Oh, Kay!" are practically as high as the royalties for "Cats", even though they are very different breeds of...um...cat. Hershey Kay is also deceased, and his estate would have a considerable amount to say about how his arrangements are disseminated by recording. It strikes me that there is a great deal of copyright wrangling involved here as to why this recording can't be had directly in the states. Shucks, I'm still not clear on the reasons why you can buy a recording of the music for "The Green Table" in Europe, but not in the US. Link to comment
Helene Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 Female pas de trois, I thought. According to the Choreography by Balanchine catalogue, "Clap Yo' Hands" is listed with "von Aroldingen, McBride, Morris, d'Amboise" for the premiere of Who Cares? (Ballet #368). The revision note says "REVISIONS: 1976, New York City Ballet: CLAP YO' HANDS eliminated." The only time I saw it, the cast was Lopez, Ashley, McBride, and Lavery. I don't remember it well enough to know whether the man's entrance came after Irving had the tape stopped. That's great background info about the change. Link to comment
carbro Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 Definitely guy plus three. I've seen Clap Yo' Hands three times including this past summer, and I recall criticism citing its references to Apollo and his three muses (obvious, once pointed out ). Link to comment
Recommended Posts