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Fouettes - Discussion, Examples

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Posted (edited)
On 4/10/2018 at 9:14 PM, sandik said:

And it's not just her -- those turns have been a bete noir for many dancers over the years.

 

How's this for fouettee - anyone seen this before ? :

 

Edited by mnacenani

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Those are some fire cracker fouettes! 

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Posted (edited)

Vorontsova is indeed a wonderful fouette turner, and turning with both hands on hips is extremely difficult.  Whether a dancer does singles, doubles or alternates them is often largely a matter of taste: fast, perfectly placed and centred singles are often the most dazzling. tasteful and effective.   Personally, I think that "party tricks" when executing fouettes, including changes of arm position, jumps between fouette turns etc, are more appropriate for some ballets than others.  

Edited by MadameP

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1 hour ago, MadameP said:

... fast, perfectly placed and centred singles are often the most dazzling. tasteful and effective.   Personally, I think that "party tricks" when executing fouettees, including changes of arm position, jumps between fouette turns etc, are more appropriate for some ballets than others.  

Absolutely!

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Personally, I find fouettés an unnecessary distraction most of the time.  In story ballets they rarely if ever add to our understanding of the character; in fact, it's hard to even understand most of the time why the character is engaging in purely exhibitionistic behavior.  Odile is an exhibitionist, obviously, so her fouettes make some sense, but Medora, not so much.  In contrast with fouettés, other bravura steps. like great jumps or a series of pirouettes can be done in character and may even add to our understanding.  Moreover, fouettés can be an unwelcome distraction when anxiety over whether the dancer will perform them well intrudes on our enjoyment of a well-danced performance.  Will she succeed or will the painstakingly created image be ruined by traveling or falling out of the turn or a clumsy finish?  Obviously, fouettés are here to stay and will be used by some as a metric for success, sort of like quad jumps in figure skating.  To the extent that the emphasis  fouettés excludes otherwise excellent dancers from performance opportunities it's a loss for the art form.

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Odile's fouettés are meant to be hypnotic, if you listen to Makarova...which I like to do.  The problem with gimmicky tricks is that they get old fast.  Fouettés are a pretty old trick.  32 is like playing one note over & over & over...

 

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7 hours ago, Amy Reusch said:

Odile's fouettés are meant to be hypnotic, if you listen to Makarova...which I like to do.  The problem with gimmicky tricks is that they get old fast.  Fouettés are a pretty old trick.  32 is like playing one note over & over & over...

 

EXACTLY!  

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21 hours ago, Amy Reusch said:

Odile's fouettés are meant to be hypnotic, if you listen to Makarova...which I like to do.  The problem with gimmicky tricks is that they get old fast.  Fouettés are a pretty old trick.  32 is like playing one note over & over & over...

 

IMO too many dancers today go for doubles and other tricks when they'd be more successful doing strong, focused singles.  

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Posted (edited)

Not to mention that doubles are actually a "rest" for the dancer (one less relevé ... one less whip of the leg)... and  changing spots is impressive from a technical standpoint but doesn't have much more  to say aesthetically.

Edited by Amy Reusch

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, Amy Reusch said:

Not to mention that doubles are actually a "rest" for the dancer (one less relevé ... one less whip of the leg)... and  changing spots is impressive from a technical standpoint but doesn't have much more  to say aesthetically.

That's interesting. Perhaps it depends. I remember from some youtube video (Washington Ballet) where a female dancer stated that double turna are harder because it requires more speed, more force to do the doubles.

Edited by Lam

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3 hours ago, Lam said:

That's interesting. Perhaps it depends. I remember from some youtube video (Washington Ballet) where a female dancer stated that double turna are harder because it requires more speed, more force to do the doubles.

True. If everyone found doubles easier everyone would do them. Often even good turners will start out throwing in doubles but for the last 16 or 8 switch to all single. Doubles do require more force, and using force adds an element of risk. 

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On 4/11/2018 at 11:31 PM, Quinten said:

fouettés can be an unwelcome distraction when anxiety over whether the dancer will perform them well intrudes on our enjoyment

Indeed !

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I think doubles certainly add an element of risk and skill (requiring strong center of balance), and if one is trying to do doubles in the same amount of time as singles (though usually a double replaces two singles in fouettes), there is significantly more force... as the dancer tires, center of balance can begin to go awry... slight errors begin to accumulate that are easier to save with a single than with a double.

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CubanMiamiBoy posted this video in another thread, and I thought it was good example to add to this discussion. Here is an example of someone who (IMO) makes the fouettes mesmerizing. There's something about seeing her face whip around so many times in succession and to the music that makes Tiler's fouettes hypnotic. Can't stop watching these

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11 hours ago, onxmyxtoes said:

CubanMiamiBoy posted this video in another thread, and I thought it was good example to add to this discussion. Here is an example of someone who (IMO) makes the fouettes mesmerizing. There's something about seeing her face whip around so many times in succession and to the music that makes Tiler's fouettes hypnotic. Can't stop watching these

Yep...she has really mastered them, so she certainly goes to a higher level, one that will never be reached by the likes of Seo or Copeland.

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I have always loved when a ballerina tells her audience how musical she can be by really twirling her leg along each of the counts of the 32 fouettes, whichof course...it is only achieved by doing singles. As high tech as the multiple pirouettes are during fouettes, the effect really loses momentum by deviating from the musical count.

Here Rosario Suarez exemplifies this @ 3:18

 

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I don't think this video is an illustration of your thesis, I don't see a correlation between the constant speed of the fouettés and the pattern of the orchestral tempi. If anything, this is an illustration of a muscular, inelegant execution of this element. There is much more to the proper execution of the fouettés besides executing 32 of them without much travel.

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On ‎4‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 1:49 PM, Amy Reusch said:

… (though usually a double replaces two singles in fouettes), …

I am afraid, it doesn't. If it did, some ballerinas accused by one particularly obsessed guardian of technical purity of not doing them enough, could have been accused of doing too many of them.

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14 hours ago, onxmyxtoes said:

There's something about seeing her face whip around so many times in succession and to the music that makes Tiler's fouettes hypnotic. Can't stop watching these

I have been banned from discussing any sort of fouettee by any artist so am keeping my opinion to myself  :crying:

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4 hours ago, Laurent said:

I don't think this video is an illustration of your thesis, I don't see a correlation between the constant speed of the fouettés and the pattern of the orchestral tempi. If anything, this is an illustration of a muscular, inelegant execution of this element. There is much more to the proper execution of the fouettés besides executing 32 of them without much travel.

Oh, and I DONT agree with your disagreement either, but that's the beauty of this board....the green light to "agree to disagree"...😎

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On 4/30/2018 at 7:51 AM, Laurent said:

I don't think this video is an illustration of your thesis, I don't see a correlation between the constant speed of the fouettés and the pattern of the orchestral tempi. If anything, this is an illustration of a muscular, inelegant execution of this element. There is much more to the proper execution of the fouettés besides executing 32 of them without much travel.

Completely agree.  These fouettes might be executed at a "constant speed" but look laborious and they are not in time with the music.

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3 hours ago, MadameP said:

Completely agree.  These fouettes might be executed at a "constant speed" but look laborious and they are not in time with the music.

If that working legal didn't whip to every single count of music all the way to a perfect 32 in total synchronization, then I must be living in another dimension.😎

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2 hours ago, cubanmiamiboy said:

If that working legal didn't whip to every single count of music all the way to a perfect 32 in total synchronization, then I must be living in another dimension.😎

Really?  They look completely out on my screen - unless the sound out of synch.    

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3 hours ago, MadameP said:

Really?  They look completely out on my screen - unless the sound out of synch.    

Hummer...strange. They look synchronized on mine. 

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1 hour ago, cubanmiamiboy said:

Hummer...strange. They look synchronized on mine. 

"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder !"  :D

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