Peter Martins Sexual Harassment Allegations

[meliodori]

7 minutes ago, Balletwannabe said:

"no where to go, no protection"?  The police perhaps?  And why was this charactized as sexual assault when the description suggests otherwise?  So many questions...

Going to the police would have meant jeopardizing her career. That's a terrible situation to be put in by someone in a position of power.

[Helene]

A reminder: John Clifford is a ballet professional commenting under his own name.  Comments on official news sites must meet those standards to be discussed here.

 

[aurora]

16 minutes ago, Balletwannabe said:

"no where to go, no protection"?  The police perhaps?  And why was this charactized as sexual assault when the description suggests otherwise?  So many questions...

My impression is that this wasn't the case that triggered the investigation.

And I think you underestimate how easy people find it to report their bosses, who have been in control of them since they were literally children, to the police.

[Balletwannabe]

2 minutes ago, meliodori said:

Going to the police would have meant jeopardizing her career. That's a terrible situation to be put in by someone in a position of power.

The implications of that would have been serious, I understand.  But there was that option.  

[aurora]

3 minutes ago, Balletwannabe said:

The implications of that would have been serious, I understand.  But there was that option.  

That doesn't detract from her point that in a company that size there should have been some mechanism in place for employees to complain about abusive behavior.

Edited December 7, 2017 by aurora

[Balletwannabe]

3 minutes ago, aurora said:

My impression is that this wasn't the case that triggered the investigation.

And I think you underestimate how easy people find it to report their bosses, who have been in control of them since they were literally children, to the police.

I don't think I said anything about it being easy.  

[vipa]

6 minutes ago, meliodori said:

Going to the police would have meant jeopardizing her career. That's a terrible situation to be put in by someone in a position of power.

A terrible situation indeed.  I don't know how she went to work the next day but she stayed on for a few more years. I don't think Martins will be able to return after this story gets around.

[Balletwannabe]

1 minute ago, aurora said:

That doesn't detract from her point that in a company that size there should have been some mechanism in place for employees to complain about abusive behavior.

Point taken.  But would she not have also been terrified of the consequences of complaining to HR?  Just thinking outloud.

[dirac]

32 minutes ago, FITTB85 said:

John Clifford's comment on the WaPo article feels a bit inappropriate/thirsty. 

It was an odd little post, yes.

[nanushka]

42 minutes ago, Balletwannabe said:

"no where to go, no protection"?  The police perhaps? 

We don't know what the exact context of that quotation was.

“There was no HR, no protection, nowhere to go to,” she says. 

She could very well have been talking about in the company. (In fact, the start of the sentence suggests that may be the case.)

 

Edited December 7, 2017 by nanushka

[Balletwannabe]

30 minutes ago, nanushka said:

We don't know what the exact context of that quotation was.

“There was no HR, no protection, nowhere to go to,” she says. 

She could very well have been talking about in the company. (In fact, the start of the sentence suggests that may be the case.)

 

Probably some misunderstanding on my part and failure to explain myself well enough. 

Anyways, it was difficult to read the description of what happened.  Makes me angry and my immediate response was, police!

Edited December 8, 2017 by Balletwannabe

[pherank]

45 minutes ago, nanushka said:

We don't know what the exact context of that quotation was.

“There was no HR, no protection, nowhere to go to,” she says. 

She could very well have been talking about in the company. (In fact, the start of the sentence suggests that may be the case.)

 

I've often wondered exactly what HR consists of in the ballet world - only the largest US companies, and state-sponsored companies elsewhere, are likely to even have a "personnel" department.

[balletforme]

I applaud Ms. Boal.  Bravo to her!  And why in the world are we victim blaming here? 

Edited December 8, 2017 by balletforme

[balletforme]

NYT Article  (Let's add Heather Watts and Gelsey Kirkland--forgot I read that, too)

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/07/arts/dance/city-ballets-peter-martins-takes-leave-of-absence-after-misconduct-accusation.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Farts&action=click&contentCollection=arts&region=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=2&pgtype=sectionfront

Edited December 8, 2017 by balletforme

[nanushka]

2 hours ago, FITTB85 said:

John Clifford's comment on the WaPo article feels a bit inappropriate/thirsty. 

I don't find the comment itself to be odd at all, really, but I do find the fact that he left a comment to be odd.

[ABT Fan]

I predict Martin's temporary leave of absence is going to turn into a resignation very quickly. There's no coming back from this and the board will want to send the right message to the dancers, the company at large and the public. Having him on leave for weeks on end will prevent the company from focusing on the work and moving forward. Finish their investigation, but based on what we know so far, I'm thinking that won't take very long. Appoint an interim director, then search for the right replacement. 

[pherank]

49 minutes ago, nanushka said:

I don't find the comment itself to be odd at all, really, but I do find the fact that he left a comment to be odd.

I didn't find it odd - Clifford often leaves comments on his YouTube channel, and will answer other people's questions. And anyone can have an opinion. His comment about the Martins situation was unusually measured for John Clifford, imo.

[FITTB85]

30 minutes ago, pherank said:

I didn't find it odd - Clifford often leaves comments on his YouTube channel, and will answer other people's questions. And anyone can have an opinion. His comment about the Martins situation was unusually measured for John Clifford, imo.

I found it odd that Clifford chose to make what felt like a 'formal statement' about the situation in the comments section of an article, especially when it was unsolicited.  If he feels the need to share words of support to those 4 specific colleagues, he could have called/e-mailed them directly.  As far as we've seen so far literally no one in the ballet world has made any kind of public statement about the situation, that's why it felt kind of "look at me, look at me!"

[Marta]

4 hours ago, aurora said:

My impression is that this wasn't the case that triggered the investigation.

And I think you underestimate how easy people find it to report their bosses, who have been in control of them since they were literally children, to the police.

I agree completely with both statements.  Wasn't it the anonymous letter that spoke of sexual misconduct?

[Marta]

53 minutes ago, pherank said:

I didn't find it odd - Clifford often leaves comments on his YouTube channel, and will answer other people's questions. And anyone can have an opinion. His comment about the Martins situation was unusually measured for John Clifford, imo.

I did not think it was so odd either. On the surface it was civil and not accusatory; however, he didn't defend PM. 

[yukionna4869]

32 minutes ago, FITTB85 said:

I found it odd that Clifford chose to make what felt like a 'formal statement' about the situation in the comments section of an article, especially when it was unsolicited.  If he feels the need to share words of support to those 4 specific colleagues, he could have called/e-mailed them directly.  As far as we've seen so far literally no one in the ballet world has made any kind of public statement about the situation, that's why it felt kind of "look at me, look at me!"

I find that Clifford has a tendency to make a lot of things about himself. Whether talking about working with Balanchine, his dancers in Los Angeles Ballet, or the models he's discovered, he usually adds a dash of of "look at me, look at me".

[pherank]

38 minutes ago, FITTB85 said:

I found it odd that Clifford chose to make what felt like a 'formal statement' about the situation in the comments section of an article, especially when it was unsolicited.  If he feels the need to share words of support to those 4 specific colleagues, he could have called/e-mailed them directly.  As far as we've seen so far literally no one in the ballet world has made any kind of public statement about the situation, that's why it felt kind of "look at me, look at me!"

Clifford is very much a 'creature of the stage' and I'm sure he likes to show off to some degree. But his actual comment was quite restrained (which to me was the right thing to do).

 

21 minutes ago, Marta said:

I did not think it was so odd either. On the surface it was civil and not accusatory; however, he didn't defend PM. 

No, and I think that was very purposeful.

 

1 minute ago, yukionna4869 said:

I find that Clifford has a tendency to make a lot of things about himself. Whether talking about working with Balanchine, his dancers in Los Angeles Ballet, or the models he's discovered, he usually adds a dash of of "look at me, look at me".

Agreed. But the important thing is that he is full of great information, and knowledgeable opinions - it isn't just fluff and hyperbole. At the end of the day though, it's just one person's opinion from the periphery. Clifford won't be deciding Martins' fate.

[yukionna4869]

Just now, pherank said:

Agreed. But the important thing is that he is full of great information, and knowledgeable opinions - it isn't just fluff and hyperbole.

His YouTube channel is an incredible treasure trove.

[sandik]

6 hours ago, balletforme said:

I applaud Ms. Boal.  Bravo to her!  And why in the world are we victim blaming here? 

This comment from Ashley Judd, from the Time Magazine Person of the Year article:

"'Were we supposed to call some fantasy attorney general of moviedom?' Judd asks. 'There wasn't a place for us to report these experiences.'"

 

[KarenAG]

On 12/6/2017 at 9:24 AM, DC Export said:

Do we think that Woetzel would step away from his commitment from taking the reigns at Julliard? That has been such a big slow roll out, I would think it would be difficult to extract himself from that situation. While Watts clearly has hit a goldmine in being able to foster new talent while remaining  dedicated to Balanchine, I am not convinced that the Woetzel-Watts partnership would be able to split their shared artistic vision into two distinct artistic houses.

I do not think Woetzel would leave his Julliard post, that's why said he was a longshot. But before he was appointed to it, I'd thought he would be a strong contender to lead NYCB when Martins retired.