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ABT 2017 promotions prediction/wish list

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1 minute ago, canbelto said:

This documentary at 33:00 provides the pronunciation of Diana's last name. It's "Vishnoyva."

 

What I hear at 33:00 is closer to -nyova than –noyva.

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Диа́на Ви́кторовна Вишнёва 

 

The Russian syllable нё is pronounced approximately like the American English "nyo" as in "canyon" but with a long rather than short "o." Or even "yo" as in "YO!" – but not "ee-o" as in "Eeyore." In addition, the syllable containing ё is almost always the syllable that is stressed, so, VishNYOva.

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9 minutes ago, Kathleen O'Connell said:

Диа́на Ви́кторовна Вишнёва 

 

The Russian syllable нё is pronounced approximately like the American English "nyo" as in "canyon" but with a long rather than short "o." Or even "yo" as in "YO!" – but not "ee-o" as in "Eeyore." In addition, the syllable containing ё is almost always the syllable that is stressed, so, VishNYOva.

 

Thanks so much for the precise and clear description! That's hard to do, without resorting to phonetic symbols that aren't widely known!

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6 minutes ago, nanushka said:

 

Thanks so much for the precise and clear description! That's hard to do, without resorting to phonetic symbols that aren't widely known!

 

It can be maddening for us non-native speakers! Russians aren't sticklers for using ё in print, and will happily substitute plain old е, which often as not gets transliterated as English "e," which isn't pronounced like the Russian е in any event. And of course the Russian letter о is pronounced more like a cross between "ah" and "uh" than "oh" when it's unstressed — as in Sem-YAWN-uh-va — but if you don't know where the stress falls how do you know how to pronounce that pesky Russian о! 

 

I gather I have been mispronouncing Osipova's name for lo these many years. I think it's something like OH-si-puh-va, but if someone could tell me, I'd be mighty grateful!

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3 hours ago, Kathleen O'Connell said:

It can be maddening for us non-native speakers! Russians aren't sticklers for using ё in print, and will happily substitute plain old е, which often as not gets transliterated as English "e," which isn't pronounced like the Russian е in any event. And of course the Russian letter о is pronounced more like a cross between "ah" and "uh" than "oh" when it's unstressed — as in Sem-YAWN-uh-va — but if you don't know where the stress falls how do you know how to pronounce that pesky Russian о! 

 

I gather I have been mispronouncing Osipova's name for lo these many years. I think it's something like OH-si-puh-va, but if someone could tell me, I'd be mighty grateful!

 

The ё/yo only ever occurs when the vowel is stressed. Therefore vish-NYO-va, sye-MYO-na-va, ka-va-LYO-va.

 

What gets really nasty is when the stress shifts. The word for lake, as in Swan Lake, is pronounced O-zye-ra (озеро). And in the singular, the stress remains on the first syllable: gen. озера (also O-zye-ra), dat. озеру (O-zye-ru), acc, озеро (O-zye-ra), etc. But in the plural, the stress shifts to the second syllable and goes into that ё/yo thing: nom. pl. озёра (a-ZYO-ra), gen. pl. озёр (a-ZYOR), dat. pl. озёрам (a-ZYO-ram), etc.

 

The stress in Osipova does fall on the first syllable, although I wouldn't render the first letter as an "OH" because it doesn't sound like a "long" English O.

Edited by volcanohunter

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In Spanish the stress in the Russian names goes in the third syllable, as in O-si-PO'-va. In English it goes in the second. Even my name, when prononuced in the French way-( as intended by my mom, without the H)- has the stress in the second syllable. In English it has an H and stress in the first syllable.

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6 minutes ago, cubanmiamiboy said:

In Spanish the stress in the Russian names goes in the third syllable, as in O-si-PO'-va. In English it goes in the second. Even my name, when prononuced in the French way-( as intended by my mom, without the H)- has the stress in the second syllable. In English it has an H and stress in the first syllable.

 

We are trying to figure out the correct pronunciation of Russian names, not the Spanish pronunciation of Russian names...what is the point of this? Also that is how most English speakers I know (myself included) say her name, which I also have gathered is wrong. This is not clarifying...

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14 minutes ago, cubanmiamiboy said:

In Spanish the stress in the Russian names goes in the third syllable, as in O-si-PO'-va. In English it goes in the second.

 

I have never heard a native English speaker pronounce it oSIpova. If anything I think English speakers tend toward the penultimate syllable, whichever that may be. (In this case, osiPOva, which is incorrect.)

 

Russian is Slavic while the other three languages you mention are not. So in any case those other languages' tendencies aren't really relevant.

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1 hour ago, volcanohunter said:

 

The ё/yo only ever occurs when the vowel is stressed. Therefore vish-NYO-va, sye-MYO-na-va, ka-va-LYO-va.

 

What gets really nasty is when the stress shifts. The word for lake, as in Swan Lake, is pronounced O-zye-ra (озеро). And in the singular, the stress remains on the first syllable: gen. озера (also O-zye-ra), dat. озеру (O-zye-ru), acc, озеро (O-zye-ra), etc. But in the plural, the stress shifts to the second syllable and goes into that ё/yo thing: nom. pl. озёра (a-ZYO-ra), gen. pl. озёр (a-ZYOR), dat. pl. озёрам (a-ZYO-ram), etc.

 

The stress in Osipova does fall on the first syllable, although I wouldn't render the first letter as an "OH" because it doesn't sound like a "long" English O.

 

Oh man, those stem changes ... that being said, Russian spelling and pronunciation at least makes sense once you know the rules – as opposed to English, where the orthography is more or less archeological rather than logical.

 

By the way, I believe the cyrillic spelling of Semionova's name is Семионова - i.e, no ё.

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Yes, you're correct. Serves me right for rushing with my answer. I'll cite a better example. (Such as Marina se-MYO-no-va/Семёнова.)

 

The tendency of English speakers (in North America, anyway) is to assume that the stress will fall on the penultimate syllable, but that's a lousy guide. Unfortunately there is no foolproof method of guessing where the stress ought to fall. So you get PAV-lo-va, O-si-po-va, ma-KA-ro-va, an-TO-ni-che-va, ko-chet-KO-va. Many surnames are derived from male first names, so it can help to look at the root and identify that the stress falls on PA-vel, O-sip, ma-KAR or an-TON, but the example of i-VAN vs. i-va-NO-va would likely lead you astray. I can't blame any English speaker for wondering why it's vish-NYO-va, but also vish-NYEV-ska-ya.

Edited by volcanohunter

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5 hours ago, Kathleen O'Connell said:

 

Yes indeedy. I keep wondering when his career is going to get some traction. Not that Forster is a Balanchine dancer, but I can't help but go ... Hmmmm, I wonder if ? ... when I cast my eye across the plaza to the theater brimming with tall ballerina talent. 

 

I truly hope we don't lose another promising, talented, handsome male soloist, to another company the way ABT lost Sterling Baca. If that happens, someone very important is not paying attention and should be replaced.

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And I'm still missing Eric Tamm, who left  the company before getting out of the corps

 

 

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2 hours ago, Kathleen O'Connell said:

Oh man, those stem changes ... that being said, Russian spelling and pronunciation at least makes sense once you know the rules – as opposed to English, where the orthography is more or less archeological rather than logical.

 

:offtopic: You know, in this instance, not so much. From one of my grad-school textbooks, Russian Word-Formation by Charles E. Townsend: "For historical reasons which are no longer always obvious in modern Russian, stressed é came to be pronounced ë in certain positions [footnote: generally speaking, before hard paired consonants and ž and š], while it remained é in other positions." Yeah, not really helpful.

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When trying to pronounce Вишнёва one can think of Spanish words such as baño, pequeño or puño. It would lbe something something like Vishñova.

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4 hours ago, aurora said:

 

We are trying to figure out the correct pronunciation of Russian names, not the Spanish pronunciation of Russian names...what is the point of this? 

 

Oh..the point, right...! Let's try again..

Here...

 

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Gorak, Hoven, Shayer, Royal, and Ahn have all proved their ability to command a stage in soloist variations, and their technical abilities as partners don’t seem to have been severely tested this season. I think their ability to manufacture stage chemistry with partners is what was under the microscope this season.

 

Did any of the men have a major breakthrough in terms of dramatic chemistry? (Gorak and Hoven were both paired with stage animal Olgas for Onegin.)  Assuming no one had a break-out season, I'd expect to see Shayer and Royal promoted for their seniority/technique/promise.

 

As far as the women are concerned, I suspect the artistic staff would prefer to simultaneously promote Teuscher and Shevchenko at the end of next year, followed by Trenary and Brandt the following year. (With the order less about merit than building audience familiarity and avoiding comparisons.)

 

But I think what will really decide matters is the existing principal women’s retirement, injury, and maternity prospects for the next 1-2 years...if so, stage experience will be the main decider:

  • If anything is afoot with a taller principal woman, Teuscher will be fast-tracked this year.
  • If anything is afoot with a shorter principal woman, Lane (and possibly Trenary) will get a nod this year.

 

And I agree with the members who wish ABT had a demi-soloist position so that Fang, Post, Hamrick, and DeGrofft would be properly recognized.  But one joy of all these in-house promotions is that corps members may now have a shot at roles formerly assigned exclusively to soloists/principals. (Fang in anything involving a slyph! Post in Monotones!)

Edited by choriamb

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How many are capable of SL/Kitri/Medora complete choreography barring short term injury?  3 out of 5 principal women [excluding Kotchetkova, Part, Vishneva].  5 out of 6 soloist women [unsure on Paris]. Principal=Lane+Teuscher+ Trenary : but more likely Shevshenko].  Gomes dances less frequently so more opportunities for Forster,  Hammoudi, Davis?    Levels above corps should be dancers who are distinctive in their work.  NYCB has 3 levels which works for it's repertoire. ABT has more complex repertoire and would benefit from a 4rth level:  Stewart, Davis, Hurlin, Hamrick, Post, McCune.  Soloist: Shayer, Royal.   

 

Edited by maps

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12 hours ago, lmspear said:

And I'm still missing Eric Tamm, who left  the company before getting out of the corps

 

 

I forgot about Eric Tamm.  I really thought he was a soloist!  I recall him partnering Gillian and Stella, so he must have been tall.

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3 hours ago, choriamb said:

And I agree with the members who wish ABT had a demi-soloist position so that Fang, Post, Hamrick, and DeGrofft would be properly recognized.  But one joy of all these in-house promotions is that corps members may now have a shot at roles formerly assigned exclusively to soloists/principals. (Fang in anything involving a slyph! Post in Monotones!)

I couldn't take my eyes of Fang as Zulma in Giselle. She was so incredibly lovely. Hamrick in Act I stood out to me as well, but I'm not sure if that was because of her dancing, her beautiful face, or that she's Mick Jagger's girlfriend. 

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And there are a lot of newer corps waiting for a break including S Forsyte, R Richardson, Giselle Bethea and K Ogawa....

 

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3 hours ago, DeCoster said:

I forgot about Eric Tamm.  I really thought he was a soloist!  I recall him partnering Gillian and Stella, so he must have been tall.

I wanted to double-check my memory.  A quick Google search didn't mention a promotion to soloist, but I did find this 2011 article in Pointe Magazine, which does short interviews with Tamm, Hoven, and Hammoudi, labelling them the next potential star danseurs of ABT.

 

 The Next Guys of ABT

 

 

 

Edited by lmspear
Typo

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Eric Tamm was never promoted to soloist. He was being given a number of demi- and soloist roles though. He also danced the lead in Nutcracker. I really thought he was on the road to promotion, but then he left to become a realtor. I loved his dancing and was very sad when he left.

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1 hour ago, bingham said:

And there are a lot of newer corps waiting for a break including S Forsyte, R Richardson, Giselle Bethea and K Ogawa....

 

I haven't seen Gisele Bethea on stage this season at all, and between her height and her feet she's hard to miss.  Has anyone noticed her?

Edited by DeCoster
typo

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1 hour ago, lmspear said:

I wanted to double-check my memory.  A quick Google search didn't mention a promotion to soloist, but I did find this 2001 article in Pointe Magazine, which does short interviews with Tamm, Hoven, and Hammoudi, labelling them the next potential star danseurs of ABT.

 

 The Next Guys of ABT

 

 

 

Interesting that Hoven said Lensky as his dream role almost more than 15 years ago. I found him excellent in the role this season. 

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