Misty Copeland, Part Deux

[Helene]

When in doubt, chaine!

[nanushka]

4 minutes ago, Helene said:

When in doubt, chaine!

#lifelessons

[Helene]

This is really about Whiteside and the NYT, not Copeland:  she doesn't make up the headlines any more than a figure skater or gymnast or YAGP participant makes up their own marks and jury decisions. 

I'd moved the discussion to Whiteside's thread, but this is a bigger issue about the press determining who gets recognized, so I've created a new thread in Ballet News and Issues:

http://balletalert.invisionzone.com/topic/43771-when-the-press-determines-stardom-who-gets-recognized/

 

[fondoffouettes]

I don't even follow Copeland on Instagram, and this sponsored post (i.e, paid advertisement) from her public-facing account showed up on my Instagram. I've seen many public figures, including dancers, promote products on their feeds, presumably for compensation or because they are a "brand ambassador," but I've never seen one “boost” (i.e., force onto non-followers’ feeds) a post with paid advertising. Remember the good ol' days when she'd just mention Seamless in all of her interviews?

Edited May 30, 2018 by fondoffouettes

[Helene]

Typically sponsored ads aren't sponsored by the people paid to be in them:  they are sponsored by the product itself, in this case, Naked Juice.  That's it's coming from her account is like many other celebrity sponsorships.  I assume you received it because of an algorithm that shows that you're interested in ballet, hence Copeland's opinion matters.

[nanushka]

I’ve seen artists (including perhaps dancers, though I don’t specifically recall) featured in “sponsored” posts (i.e. those appearing on non-followers’ feeds) coming from the sponsors’ accounts, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen a “sponsored” post coming directly from an artist’s account. (I’d be curious to see examples of the latter, if others have encountered them.)

And yes, to be sure the post was paid for by the sponsor, not by Copeland.

Edited May 30, 2018 by nanushka

[fondoffouettes]

16 minutes ago, Helene said:

Typically sponsored ads aren't sponsored by the people paid to be in them:  they are sponsored by the product itself, in this case, Naked Juice.  That's it's coming from her account is like many other celebrity sponsorships.  I assume you received it because of an algorithm that shows that you're interested in ballet, hence Copeland's opinion matters.

 

No doubt the money came from Naked. I've just never seen a sponsored post directly from a public figure, only from corporations and organizations. Sponsoring the post immediately makes it feel like a transactional relationship between Copeland's team and Naked Juice, which seems to defeat the purpose of using a personal Instagram account to promote a product. (The whole idea should be that the person is genuinely excited by the product, right?) If Tiger Balm or Cole Haan were to make Sarah Mearns' posts about its products "sponsored posts," they'd lose their personal touch, Instead, they've come to some arrangement where Mearns posts about their products in a more organic fashion, and they are photos and videos taken by her, not a marketing team. The latter seems more appropriate to the particular nature of Instagram. 

[canbelto]

6 minutes ago, fondoffouettes said:

No doubt the money came from Naked. I've just never seen a sponsored post directly from a public figure, only from corporations and organizations. Sponsoring the post immediately makes it feel like a transactional relationship between Copeland's team and Naked Juice, which seems to defeat the purpose of using a personal Instagram account to promote a product. (The whole idea should be that the person is genuinely excited by the product, right?) If Tiger Balm or Cole Haan were to make Sarah Mearns' posts about its products "sponsored posts," they'd lose their personal touch, Instead, they've come to some arrangement where Mearns posts about their products in a more organic fashion, and they are photos and videos taken by her, not a marketing team. The latter seems more appropriate to the particular nature of Instagram. 

Actually, although I admire Sara Mearns tremendously as an artist and a dancer I find her shilling for the products she sponsors on Instagram a bit ... I wouldn't call it tacky but I do think it's weird when I go to her "story" and it goes from her planning her wedding and hanging out backstage to product placement for Cole Haan shoes. She's not the only dancer to do this. Once I saw a dancer whom I admire write a long post about the aches and pains of being a dancer and moved directly into shilling for a certain brand of mattress. I understand it might be in their contract with the companies and/or their way of promoting products from their sponsors but it is weird when an instagram account veers from a day-to-day peek into the life of a dancer to an advertisement for a certain brand of dancewear/shoes/mattress/juicedrink/whatever.

I find what Misty does (making her Instagram a little more corporate from the get-go) more transparent than "hey here's Violet Storm dancing with me backstage ... look at these amazing Cole Haan shoes." 

Edited May 30, 2018 by canbelto

[Balletwannabe]

I've always assumed these dancers have unknown personal accounts that they share with family/friends.  Public accounts like these are supposed to be for advertising, no?  It's to promote themselves/their ballet company.  If they can sell products too...good for them!  

[nanushka]

9 hours ago, canbelto said:

I understand it might be in their contract with the companies and/or their way of promoting products from their sponsors but it is weird when an instagram account veers from a day-to-day peek into the life of a dancer to an advertisement for a certain brand of dancewear/shoes/mattress/juicedrink/whatever.

On the other hand, promoting products is a part of the day-to-day lives of many dancers (Mearns and Copeland among them), so perhaps it's all of a piece?

9 hours ago, canbelto said:

I find what Misty does (making her Instagram a little more corporate from the get-go) more transparent than "hey here's Violet Storm dancing with me backstage ... look at these amazing Cole Haan shoes." 

The latter seems pretty nearly transparent to me as well.

[Kathleen O'Connell]

10 hours ago, fondoffouettes said:

No doubt the money came from Naked. I've just never seen a sponsored post directly from a public figure, only from corporations and organizations. Sponsoring the post immediately makes it feel like a transactional relationship between Copeland's team and Naked Juice, which seems to defeat the purpose of using a personal Instagram account to promote a product. (The whole idea should be that the person is genuinely excited by the product, right?) If Tiger Balm or Cole Haan were to make Sarah Mearns' posts about its products "sponsored posts," they'd lose their personal touch, Instead, they've come to some arrangement where Mearns posts about their products in a more organic fashion, and they are photos and videos taken by her, not a marketing team. The latter seems more appropriate to the particular nature of Instagram. 

Instagram is owned by Facebook. No matter what Zuck may say about wanting to bring the world together, Instagram exists for one reason only, and that is to sell its users' attention to advertisers. A user who might scroll right past an ad might be inclined to linger a fraction of a second longer on a sponsored post from a dancer (or actor or musician or designer or model) they know, even if they don't follow that person. Advertisers want to reach as many of the right people as possible. In this case, they're targeting people who's attention might be grabbed by Copeland's name, not just the people who follow her.  The minute Instagram went to an algorithmically structured feed (as opposed to a simple chronological feed of posts from the people you follow) was the moment it stopped being a personal channel between you, your followers, and the people you yourself follow. Not that it ever really was that once it became an ad platform. 

I'm old and jaded: I'm no more annoyed by sponsored posts than I am by ostensibly personal posts used to shill for sponsors. For the record, I've got nothing against dancers being paid to promote products. Heck, I don't even mind fashion brands ponying up some dough to get moody shots of dancers sporting their togs into NYCB season brochures.  In the best of all possible worlds, the arts would be free of commercial taint, but that's not the world we live in.

Edited May 30, 2018 by Kathleen O'Connell

[Helene]

Unless he was hacked, Justin Trudeau re-tweeted a tweet by someone advertising No-Tie laces which claims to donate 20% of sales to First Book Canada:

Ms. Copeland is in good company

[nanushka]

11 hours ago, Helene said:

Ms. Copeland is in good company

If Ms. Copeland also shares with her social media followers notices about products that her colleagues support which in turn support charitable non-profits — then yes, indeed she is!

Edited May 31, 2018 by nanushka

[CharlieH]

Why did Copeland pull out (or was asked to pull out) of her scheduled Harlequinade performances next week, replaced by Skylar Brandt? Steps too difficult — lots of hops on pointe, we know — & the choreographer is unwilling to simplify them? Interestingly, Brandt also replaced Copeland in another Ratmansky premiere run last year - Whipped Cream, in its first run at Orange County. 

[nanushka]

13 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

Steps too difficult — lots of hops on pointe, we know — & the choreographer is unwilling to simplify them?

Could be. But there is a myriad of possible explanations, and I'm not sure there's enough publicly available info to even make a reasonable guess.

[dirac]

On 5/29/2018 at 7:33 PM, fondoffouettes said:

No doubt the money came from Naked. I've just never seen a sponsored post directly from a public figure, only from corporations and organizations. Sponsoring the post immediately makes it feel like a transactional relationship between Copeland's team and Naked Juice, which seems to defeat the purpose of using a personal Instagram account to promote a product. (The whole idea should be that the person is genuinely excited by the product, right?) If Tiger Balm or Cole Haan were to make Sarah Mearns' posts about its products "sponsored posts," they'd lose their personal touch, Instead, they've come to some arrangement where Mearns posts about their products in a more organic fashion, and they are photos and videos taken by her, not a marketing team. The latter seems more appropriate to the particular nature of Instagram. 

It also makes the huckstering slightly less obvious and  more difficult to ignore -- or even spot if you aren't being attentive. I have nothing against the dancers doing it, they have short careers, it's the American way, and I suppose it's better than seeing corporate brand names sewed into tutus. However, the ads should be clearly marked as ads. 

Quote

 I find what Misty does (making her Instagram a little more corporate from the get-go) more transparent than "hey here's Violet Storm dancing with me backstage ... look at these amazing Cole Haan shoes....

I agree.

Quote

 Not that it ever really was that once it became an ad platform. 

As the saying goes, if you are not paying for the product, you are the product.

[Kathleen O'Connell]

2 hours ago, dirac said:

I suppose it's better than seeing corporate brand names sewed into tutus.

I'm pretty sure that's what up with NYCB's Pulcinella Variations costumes. 😉

Actually, I like both the ballet and Tsumori Chisato's costumes very much. The costumes are ... whimiscal, but Peck's steps make his colleagues look terrific. (And at every performance I've seen to date, they return the favor.) Yeah, yeah, I'm shilling for this ballet. 

[McJagger]

20 hours ago, Helene said:

Unless he was hacked, Justin Trudeau re-tweeted a tweet by someone advertising No-Tie laces which claims to donate 20% of sales to First Book Canada:

Ms. Copeland is in good company

It appears as though it's for a charitable cause, though:

 

http://firstbookcanada.org

[Helene]

It's not the only Canadian company to give to charitable causes, but it got a selective push from PM Trudeau.  

There's always something to laud and something to pick at with endorsements, depending on where you're coming from.

[canbelto]

Well today on my instagram feed I got a sponsored post that was taken off James' Whiteside's personal feed and it had to do with Pride Day and meundies, a brand of men's underwear.

[nanushka]

2 hours ago, canbelto said:

Well today on my instagram feed I got a sponsored post that was taken off James' Whiteside's personal feed and it had to do with Pride Day and meundies, a brand of men's underwear.

Whiteside's case seems to me to be far more comparable to Copeland's than Trudeau's case does, given that Trudeau does not seem to have been posting as a paid endorser, did not have a "sponsored" post on his feed pushing out to non-followers, and was apparently just spreading the word about a company that donates to a charitable cause he finds worthy of supporting. (At least that's my understanding, based on his post.)

Personally, I'm neither picking at nor lauding anyone, just noting distinctions.

Edited June 1, 2018 by nanushka

[canbelto]

I'll also note that another NYCB ballerina I admire a lot has been using her Instagram account to hawk a brand of dancewear relentlessly. Its gotten very intrusive if you just wanted to "follow" her as a dancer and not as a walking billboard.

[dirac]

3 hours ago, Helene said:

There's always something to laud and something to pick at with endorsements, depending on where you're coming from.

I can't imagine lauding a paid endorsement.  They are what they are - not praiseworthy in themselves and annoying if they become obtrusive, but part of the celebrity landscape as it is today. 

[vipa]

1 hour ago, canbelto said:

I'll also note that another NYCB ballerina I admire a lot has been using her Instagram account to hawk a brand of dancewear relentlessly. Its gotten very intrusive if you just wanted to "follow" her as a dancer and not as a walking billboard.

I think I know who you mean Canbelto and I too find it frustrating. However, I think Copeland's popular culture image has impacted her casting in a way that it hasn't with other dancers. Dancer's can promote products on instagram, but these dancers were dance stars and take advantage of it. I don't blame them. The confusing thing about Copeland is that, aside from Ratmansky ballets, she IMO isn't cast according to ability or success in certain roles.

[Helene]

Whereas I think there's something laudable about dancers being paid to sponsor products, since it almost always means the advertisers think they are influential and have a following worth pursuing.